[chuff me dizzy]

100% Agree with this, after cases like Ched Evans and lots of other innocent men who's lives have been ruined

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

100% Agree with this, after cases like Ched Evans and lots of other innocent men who's lives have been ruined

Ched Evans is a scumbag

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Ched Evans is a scumbag

But an innocent man Niamh

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

But an innocent man Niamh

I disagree about that

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I disagree about that

We will agree to disagree on him

[Livia]

I believe that if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear. While the victim should always be believed in the first instance, there has to be some effort to weed out the few who accuse innocent men. I think things have moved on from "She's on Tindr = she's a tart", and it's a shame that all women (and men, of course) who go through the ordeal of being raped will have to give up their phones; it's a shame that they have to suffer because of a few deranged people who cry wolf.

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

I believe that if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear. While the victim should always be believed in the first instance, there are to be some effort to weed out the few who accuse innocent men. I think things have moved on from "She's on Tindr = she's a tart", and it's a shame that all women (and men, of course) who go through the ordeal of being raped will have to give up their phones; it's a shame that they have to suffer because of a few deranged people who cry wolf.

Totally agree with all this

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

I believe that if you've nothing to hide you've nothing to fear. While the victim should always be believed in the first instance, there has to be some effort to weed out the few who accuse innocent men. I think things have moved on from "She's on Tindr = she's a tart", and it's a shame that all women (and men, of course) who go through the ordeal of being raped will have to give up their phones; it's a shame that they have to suffer because of a few deranged people who cry wolf.

Really because only a few months ago a 17 year old girls lacy thong was brought up and the jury told they should take that into account when considering their verdict

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Really because only a few months ago a 17 year old girls lacy thong was brought up and the jury told they should take that into account when considering their verdict

Jesus Christ. That is disgusting and I'm surprised her barrister didn't make a huge fuss. It surprises me more when you hear about stuff like this, and the barrister was a woman.

Anyhoo... there has to be a way to weed out the fantasists, this is a clunky way... but until they come up with something else...

Edit: And also... who wears lacy thongs? It must be like having your arse flossed.

[Cherie]

The other problem with this is they are taking the phone for an indefinate amount of time, this isn't a quick check through your phone use, they might have it for weeks!

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

The other problem with this is they are taking the phone for an indefinate amount of time, this isn't a quick check through your phone use, they might have it for weeks!

They will have to recover all deleted stuff so I would imagine it takes time, but if it stops one innocent man having his life ruined IMO its worth it

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

100% Agree with this, after cases like Ched Evans and lots of other innocent men who's lives have been ruined

Innocent?

Wow. Just wow.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

Jesus Christ. That is disgusting and I'm surprised her barrister didn't make a huge fuss. It surprises me more when you hear about stuff like this, and the barrister was a woman.

Anyhoo... there has to be a way to weed out the fantasists, this is a clunky way... but until they come up with something else...

Edit: And also... who wears lacy thongs? It must be like having your arse flossed.

I saw a post on another forum talking about the M&S Christmas ad I think it was, and the womens version was woman want "fancy underwear" and someone had posted that they should put a disclaimer saying "Warning : Could be used as evidence of consent in a court of Law" it's funny but not at the same time........

[Marsh.]

I don't quite get it though.

Will the liars be texting their mate that they're going to cry rape?

Sounds more like "Ooh look she takes loads of cleavage bearing selfies! What a sort! She aint a victim!"

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Cherie

No one is disputing that in some cases phone evidence can be helpful just not in all cases?

Its to those saying what if someone has dodgy stuff on their phone, a woman can take drugs and still be raped, one bad thing does not cancel out rape.

Well educated people represent rapists in court they get paid to muddy the waters and try and get their clients off.

It’s the justice system.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

I don't quite get it though.

Will the liars be texting their mate that they're going to cry rape?

Sounds more like "Ooh look she takes loads of cleavage bearing selfies! What a sort! She aint a victim!"

No, but there's a chance it might show that the woman has contacted the man previously, sent him pics, maybe that she was a victim of unrequited love and stalked him... there's all kinds of ways it could help.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

They will have to recover all deleted stuff so I would imagine it takes time, but if it stops one innocent man having his life ruined IMO its worth it

so if for instance your daughter was attacked on a night out by a stranger, you would be happy for her to give up her phone (a lifeline if you will) for weeks on end even though she knows and you know that her attacker is not known to her and has never contacted her in any way never mind by phone?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Livia

No, but there's a chance it might show that the woman has contacted the man previously, sent him pics, maybe that she was a victim of unrequited love and stalked him... there's all kinds of ways it could help.

I agree that there are cases where phone data will be helpful, but in every rape case, that seems overkill to me

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

No, but there's a chance it might show that the woman has contacted the man previously, sent him pics, maybe that she was a victim of unrequited love and stalked him... there's all kinds of ways it could help.

But even if she had sent him pics previously that's surely not proof she wasn't raped?

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

so if for instance your daughter was attacked on a night out by a stranger, you would be happy for her to give up her phone (a lifeline if you will) for weeks on end even though she knows and you know that her attacker is not known to her and has never contacted her in any way never mind by phone?

To stop all the girls crying rape when it never happened and innocent men being sent to jail ? Yes I would gladly hand over her phone ...If you've nothing to hide,youve nothing to fear

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

No, but there's a chance it might show that the woman has contacted the man previously, sent him pics, maybe that she was a victim of unrequited love and stalked him... there's all kinds of ways it could help.

EXACTLY

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

But even if she had sent him pics previously that's surely not proof she wasn't raped?

This is all hypothetical, Marshy so I can't comment like it's a real case... but maybe she might say that she didn't know the man, or that she hadn't had contact with him, or that she didn't know where he would be that night and the phone records show that's not true, maybe she stalks his Facebook page... I don't know. All I know is that, it's not a great idea, but it is an idea... and it might stop an innocent man serving time for a rape he didn't commit. If there was no evidence of that kind of thing happening, then there would be no need for anyone's phone to be taken.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

To stop all the girls crying rape when it never happened and innocent men being sent to jail ? Yes I would gladly hand over her phone ...If you've nothing to hide,youve nothing to fear

but what would be the point of handing over her phone? what could possibly be on her phone that would help the police?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

This is all hypothetical, Marshy so I can't comment like it's a real case... but maybe she might say that she didn't know the man, or that she hadn't had contact with him, or that she didn't know where he would be that night and the phone records show that's not true, maybe she stalks his Facebook page... I don't know. All I know is that, it's not a great idea, but it is an idea... and it might stop an innocent man serving time for a rape he didn't commit. If there was no evidence of that kind of thing happening, then there would be no need for anyone's phone to be taken.

I would say in a situation where the accused is arguing an alibi that he does know her or that she's stalking him then offering his own phone/records/evidence etc would suffice. Then once they've got enough for actual suspicion of her allegations they could take her phone?

But, that's where I think the old way is actually better. Whereby the police only gett access to something when given reason to do so whilst investigating the case.

The victim handing over her phone on the off chance she's lying (to save time and money?) just seems unnecessary to me.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by chuff me dizzy

To stop all the girls crying rape when it never happened and innocent men being sent to jail ? Yes I would gladly hand over her phone ...If you've nothing to hide,youve nothing to fear

You make it sound like an epidemic.