[user104658]

If you're genuinely trying to convince me that people are going to fancy dress blacked up as Bob Marley as an act of admiration and respect, and not for a cheap laugh, again I'm going to have to call bull**** Parm. You know fine well people would only be doing it for "shock value" and that people don't black up for any other reason. It just doesn't happen. We're prancing around in fantasy land again.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

If you're genuinely trying to convince me that people are going to fancy dress blacked up as Bob Marley as an act of admiration and respect, and not for a cheap laugh, again I'm going to have to call bull**** Parm. You know fine well people would only be doing it for "shock value" and that people don't black up for any other reason. It just doesn't happen. We're prancing around in fantasy land again.

I disagree...I think the percentages of 80s fancy dress parties that have had a bob marley fan admiring his hero will be very very high.....you can't call popping some mascara on your face to complete the look racist or even blackface iny head...not when you love his music and what he was all about...

[Livia]

Originally Posted by parmnion

I disagree...I think the percentages of 80s fancy dress parties that have had a bob marley fan admiring his hero will be very very high.....you can't call popping some mascara on your face to complete the look racist or even blackface iny head...not when you love his music and what he was all about...

You're a racist, Parm, face it. So am I... and so is everyone who doesn't think exactly what others think. Like everything racist, it's all about intent.

[DouglasS]

It’s always fascinated me because I think the majority of people that do ‘blackface’ don’t know any better or are just ignorant. I don’t for one second believe most are racist at all, maybe uneducated on the matter or not knowing people can take offence.

I’ve always wondered why it is as offensive as it is perceived to be, i understand the associations and Past, but it’s like men dressing as women/drag, you can argue that women had it rough and were used/raped/had little rights pre history and yet this is fine? It’s an interesting thought

Also painting parts of your face black isn’t always ‘blackface’, I’ve gone as the angel of death a few times for Halloween that involved putting black paint over a good portion of my face. The angel of death isn’t a race, it’s a mythological creature that I was dressing up as. If people saw me and took a photo would I be regarded racist by some when clearly I’m not/I’m just in fancy dress, with nothing to do with race

[Denver]

Originally Posted by DouglasS

It’s always fascinated me because I think the majority of people that do ‘blackface’ don’t know any better or are just ignorant. I don’t for one second believe most are racist at all, maybe uneducated on the matter or not knowing people can take offence.

I’ve always wondered why it is as offensive as it is sort of thing, i understand the associations and Past, but it’s like men dressing as women/drag, you can argue that women had it rough and were used/raped/had little rights pre history and yet this is fine? It’s an interesting thought

Because people use to blackface then mock black people in comedy years ago and that's why its deemed racist

[Beso]

Originally Posted by DouglasS

It’s always fascinated me because I think the majority of people that do ‘blackface’ don’t know any better or are just ignorant. I don’t for one second believe most are racist at all, maybe uneducated on the matter or not knowing people can take offence.

I’ve always wondered why it is as offensive as it is perceived to be, i understand the associations and Past, but it’s like men dressing as women/drag, you can argue that women had it rough and were used/raped/had little rights pre history and yet this is fine? It’s an interesting thought

Also painting parts of your face black isn’t always ‘blackface’, I’ve gone as the angel of death a few times for Halloween that involved putting black paint over a good portion of my face. The angel of death isn’t a race, it’s a mythological creature that I was dressing up as. If people saw me and took a photo would I be regarded racist by some when clearly I’m not/I’m just in fancy dress, with nothing to do with race

Some good points raised..I don't know where to start.

[Northern Monkey]

You know,There is a traditional English morris dancing group who’ve been painting their faces black for years.It’s apparently from the 16th century and nothing to do with race.
I’ve seen them a few times in the 80’s/90’s and there was no problem.Everyone enjoyed it.
Only the other year though they apparently suffered abuse and had to flee from crowds who didn’t understand the tradition.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

You know,There is a traditional English morris dancing group who’ve been painting their faces black for years.It’s apparently from the 16th century and nothing to do with race.
I’ve seen them a few times in the 80’s/90’s and there was no problem.Everyone enjoyed it.
Only the other year though they apparently suffered abuse and had to flee from crowds who didn’t understand the tradition.

Thus, someone blacking up as Bob Marley so that their friends can have a chuckle on Facebook because they're the biggest fan EFFER!! is also acceptable.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Thus, someone blacking up as Bob Marley so that their friends can have a chuckle on Facebook because they're the biggest fan EFFER!! is also acceptable.

What's facook got to do with things. .

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Thus, someone blacking up as Bob Marley so that their friends can have a chuckle on Facebook because they're the biggest fan EFFER!! is also acceptable.

No but it does show that context and nuance should be applied.
Just a blanket ‘Thou shalt never apply boot polish to ones face under any circumstance’ (as some people think) isn’t always appropriate(as with the morris dancers).
People’s intentions aren’t always clear.

[Livia]

Every time this subject comes up I say the same thing, so I apologise if you've heard it before. Black people have been oppressed for centuries. So have Jewish people. Here is a picture of black Eddie Murphy whited up as a Jew. Note the big stereotypical Jewish nose...

Was I offended? Was anyone offended? Because I've never heard anyone say this is wrong. Only that it's wrong for white people to black up.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Livia

Every time this subject comes up I say the same thing, so I apologise if you've heard it before. Black people have been oppressed for centuries. So have Jewish people. Here is a picture of black Eddie Murphy whited up as a Jew. Note the big stereotypical Jewish nose...

Was I offended? Was anyone offended? Because I've never heard anyone say this is wrong. Only that it's wrong for white people to black up.

Look up the history of Blackface, Livia, and you'll see why people get upset about it in particular.

As for your whataboutism, there's been cases of black people whiting up and it causing controversies, it's not a one way street but blackface in particular has a sordid history which is why it's judged harshly.

[Tom4784]

False equivalency and unrealistic hypotheticals in an attempt to justify blackface? The state of Tibb gets grimmer by the day.

You can dress up as a black musician without blacking up your skin, there is no reason for blackface to exist in modern day considering the history of it. If you don't understand why it's so wrong then look it up.

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Several countries in northern Africa kidnapped and used white slaves, so is it unacceptable for black people from those countries to white up?

Whataboutism for SLAVERY?! jfc......

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Whataboutism for SLAVERY?! jfc......

No? Someone said that white people have never been slaves, which is nonsense.

As white people have been slaves, that puts us on even footing, so whiting up and blacking up are the same.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

No? Someone said that white people have never been slaves, which is nonsense.

As white people have been slaves, that puts us on even footing, so whiting up and blacking up are the same.

Yes those 'white trash' girls are slaves to the perverted grooming gangs and that is not history ,it's happening now, Lets not forget those white girls.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

No? Someone said that white people have never been slaves, which is nonsense.

As white people have been slaves, that puts us on even footing, so whiting up and blacking up are the same.

Puts us on even footing?

If I didn't know you were serious I might laugh.

[Oliver_W]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Puts us on even footing?

If I didn't know you were serious I might laugh.

Virtually all races have both been slaves and held slaves. No-one alive today has anything whatsoever to do with the historic slave trade, so everyone's hands are clean.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Virtually all races have both been slaves and held slaves. No-one alive today has anything whatsoever to do with the historic slave trade, so everyone's hands are clean.

It's not about whose hands are or aren't clean FFS, no one is asking you personally to feel guilty about historic slavery so stop lashing out defensively, it's nonsense

It's about the very obvious an real ongoing effect that black slavery has had and is still having and I honestly, honestly hope that your insistence that white and black people are "on an even footing" (just... what) when it comes to the effects of slavery and social inequality, and that "blacking up" has no more of a negative implication than (fictional) "whiting up" is purely down to naivety and nothing more sinister. I say that because 15 years ago I might have been caught saying something similar but I'm going to be blunt here and say that these sorts of opinions come from a place of inexperience and arrogance. But they are toxic. I hope you give it some real thought, eventually.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Virtually all races have both been slaves and held slaves. No-one alive today has anything whatsoever to do with the historic slave trade, so everyone's hands are clean.

Your attempts at normalising racism are absolutely staggering. Probably for the attention.

[Vicky.]

I think its pretty wellknown that blackface is offensive to many. And therefor really the only reason I see for doing it is to shock or whatever. 'Whiteface' is not really a thing tbh..and no I don't think its the same if it was a thing given..well history.

Interesting point about drag though, thats came up before in similar discussions. Yes, some drag queens just do it for fun or because they want to, but the huge majority I have seen seem to do it to basically mock women. Especially the ones clubs hire. Those ones are just pure misogynists IMO.

[Livia]

So I'm taking it that "Jewing up" is perfectly fine.... Good to know.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Livia

So I'm taking it that "Jewing up" is perfectly fine.... Good to know.

Again I'd refer to the above; if the majority of Jewish people are genuinely offended by the costume then no it's not fine and it's not something people should continue doing it. . But does Murphy's "Jew Costume" actually offend you or is it just being used an example of "other people doing it too".

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Again I'd refer to the above; if the majority of Jewish people are genuinely offended by the costume then no it's not fine and it's not something people should continue doing it. . But does Murphy's "Jew Costume" actually offend you or is it just being used an example of "other people doing it too".

I'm sure you have no idea whether Jews were offended... it wouldn't have occurred to you. But you LEAP on the blackface thing. So I should just stick with that if I were you.

[armand.kay]

Originally Posted by Livia

So I'm taking it that "Jewing up" is perfectly fine.... Good to know.

it's not.

[Shaun]

jesus christ this forum is pathetic