[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

No Liam, people are going to use this as an example of how easy it is to abuse a Self ID system.

Exactly, and it will still be framed as an anti-trans "tirade" to voice concerns, even with clear illustrative examples of why those concerns exist.

[Liam-]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

No Liam, people are going to use this as an example of how easy it is to abuse a Self ID system.

Some people will for sure, but let’s not pretend that some people don’t wait with baited breath for stories like this, just so they can use it as another stick to beat the trans community with

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Some people will for sure, but let’s not pretend that some people don’t wait with baited breath for stories like this, just so they can use it as another stick to beat the trans community with

Well I can only speak for myself here and as a woman and as a mother of a daughter my only interest in this issue is protecting women and girls rights and keeping women and girls safe, not beating any community with a stick.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Some people will for sure, but let’s not pretend that some people don’t wait with baited breath for stories like this, just so they can use it as another stick to beat the trans community with

I think that's probably true, and then those with genuine concerns are lumped in with those individuals and all are branded as one and the same group without discussion or consideration. But that's just a feature of social media in general, I suppose. Still, it's a fundamentally vicious circle.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Got what they deserved.

It’s just a shame that people are now going to use this as an example in their anti-trans tirades, just like people did back in the day before gays were treated like humans.

Similarly, women have been subjugated for centuries... and some men still seem to think that they have rights over them. This kind of act impacts women and genuine trans people and I think most people can see that. Of course there is that section of society who hate everyone who's different and latch on to any story that fits their agenda.

[Elliot]

Originally Posted by Liam-

Got what they deserved.

It’s just a shame that people are now going to use this as an example in their anti-trans tirades, just like people did back in the day before gays were treated like humans.

As usual. It’s tiring honestly. Don’t these miserable white women have anything else to complain about

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Elliot

As usual. It’s tiring honestly. Don’t these miserable white women have anything else to complain about

Which miserable white women? The ones who were victims (including an underage girl) of indecent exposure? Or the miserable woman who exposed herself repeatedly if the charges are correct?

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Elliot

As usual. It’s tiring honestly. Don’t these miserable white women have anything else to complain about

You mean other than petty things like wanting to ensure the safety of womens-only spaces from sexual predators? I imagine they have plenty more to complain about, but not much that's more important. Your male-centric privilege absolutely reeks Elliot.

I'll tell you what's tiring. Having to listen to little mini-rants from someone who I'm convinced simply downloaded their entire personality in PDF format.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Elliot

As usual. It’s tiring honestly. Don’t these miserable white women have anything else to complain about

Actually the women who complained in the Gym were black

Sent from my SM-G780G using Tapatalk

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Actually the women who complained in the Gym were black

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Actually the women who complained in the Gym were black

Sent from my SM-G780G using Tapatalk

Shots. Fired.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Elliot

As usual. It’s tiring honestly. Don’t these miserable white women have anything else to complain about

I wondered when this would happen

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Elliot

As usual. It’s tiring honestly. Don’t these miserable white women have anything else to complain about

We will keep you tired don’t worry, small issue of hard fought women’s rights at stake..If that’s being miserable I will take it over your narrow mind any day

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Cherie

We will keep you tired don’t worry, small issue of hard fought women’s rights at stake..If that’s being miserable I will take it over your narrow mind any day

Imagine if you were black and having to defend that sort of idiotic statement cherie!!

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Imagine if you were black and having to defend that sort of idiotic statement cherie!!

What Elliott seems to fails to comprehend is that women’s rights protect all women however they got there ..so we should all be on the same page against predators and people who abuse the system, we don’t live in Utopia!

[Beso]

Dirty beast.

[Oliver_W]

Males simply don't belong in woman-only spaces, especially ones where they're exposed and/or vulnerable. Not "even" males who identify as transwomen.

[rusticgal]

I recall seeing the video....good I am glad she has been charged. That just wasn't acceptable.

[Captain.Remy]

I do hope the victims feel better and will get justice for what happened. Whether it's from a trans person or not, a sexual offense is a terrible thing to experience. So I hope they will be alright.

It's unfortunately a case that makes the trans community look bad and is wrongly assimilated to sex offenders like that person.
The trans people I work with are horrified every time a news like that is coming out. They're scared enough for their rights for those kind of events to create even more fear and hatred.

And the Self ID concept is also very debated within the trans community because a lot of them do want at least a form of medical follow-up to be able to legally change the gender on official documents.
There is a whole range of measures that can be taken to do that, from Self ID to requiring proof of gender reassignment surgery, with different steps in between. So it's not just one view vs another view, it's more so a complex topic that needs to be adressed by all parties in good spirits.

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

I do hope the victims feel better and will get justice for what happened. Whether it's from a trans person or not, a sexual offense is a terrible thing to experience. So I hope they will be alright.

It's unfortunately a case that makes the trans community look bad and is wrongly assimilated to sex offenders like that person.
The trans people I work with are horrified every time a news like that is coming out. They're scared enough for their rights for those kind of events to create even more fear and hatred.

And the Self ID concept is also very debated within the trans community because a lot of them do want at least a form of medical follow-up to be able to legally change the gender on official documents.
There is a whole range of measures that can be taken to do that, from Self ID to requiring proof of gender reassignment surgery, with different steps in between. So it's not just one view vs another view, it's more so a complex topic that needs to be adressed by all parties in good spirits.

You should explain to your trans friends who you work with that they shouldn't Feel guilty or ashamed for something that some other human-being did. And you should tell them that their rights are exactly the same as everybody else's rights. They have equal rights to me. I have no rights that they don't have, we're equal.

Maybe they should start being trans-individuals instead of belonging to a trans-community with people they don't even know, who could be criminals, like in this case.

Just a suggestion.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

I do hope the victims feel better and will get justice for what happened. Whether it's from a trans person or not, a sexual offense is a terrible thing to experience. So I hope they will be alright.

It's unfortunately a case that makes the trans community look bad and is wrongly assimilated to sex offenders like that person.
The trans people I work with are horrified every time a news like that is coming out. They're scared enough for their rights for those kind of events to create even more fear and hatred.

And the Self ID concept is also very debated within the trans community because a lot of them do want at least a form of medical follow-up to be able to legally change the gender on official documents.
There is a whole range of measures that can be taken to do that, from Self ID to requiring proof of gender reassignment surgery, with different steps in between. So it's not just one view vs another view, it's more so a complex topic that needs to be adressed by all parties in good spirits.

This is what I mean about Self ID actually hurting genuine trans people. It leaves the door wide open for people like the guy in the OP to abuse and it strongly restricts people's (mainly women and girls in situations like these) ability to even complain about a man flashing young girls in a changing room. You can clearly see that from the video that was posted after the incident, the staff wouldn't even tell the guy to leave and some other male customer even went so far as to defend the flasher against the women complaining.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

This is what I mean about Self ID actually hurting genuine trans people. It leaves the door wide open for people like the guy in the OP to abuse and it strongly restricts people's (mainly women and girls in situations like these) ability to even complain about a man flashing young girls in a changing room. You can clearly see that from the video that was posted after the incident, the staff wouldn't even tell the guy to leave and some other male customer even went so far as to defend the flasher against the women complaining.

The alarming part is that often it's not even down to what the staff want to do; people have been successfully terrified into not taking action in these situations because they're afraid that they'll be harassed out of their job, or their employer will be harassed into firing them, or that they'll be straight up doxxed online and get personal threats... or even that they'll face legal consequences. Mainly because all of these things have actually happened to people.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The alarming part is that often it's not even down to what the staff want to do; people have been successfully terrified into not taking action in these situations because they're afraid that they'll be harassed out of their job, or their employer will be harassed into firing them, or that they'll be straight up doxxed online and get personal threats... or even that they'll face legal consequences. Mainly because all of these things have actually happened to people.

Yep I can absolutely understand that too. It's just mental that we're even in this kind of a situation tbh I read a tweet earlier where someone posted about how quick the #metoo movement is forgotten about. Women complain of sexual harassment and are called names and told to shut up. That's about a 50 year step backwards

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Captain.Remy

I do hope the victims feel better and will get justice for what happened. Whether it's from a trans person or not, a sexual offense is a terrible thing to experience. So I hope they will be alright.

It's unfortunately a case that makes the trans community look bad and is wrongly assimilated to sex offenders like that person.
The trans people I work with are horrified every time a news like that is coming out. They're scared enough for their rights for those kind of events to create even more fear and hatred.

And the Self ID concept is also very debated within the trans community because a lot of them do want at least a form of medical follow-up to be able to legally change the gender on official documents.
There is a whole range of measures that can be taken to do that, from Self ID to requiring proof of gender reassignment surgery, with different steps in between. So it's not just one view vs another view, it's more so a complex topic that needs to be adressed by all parties in good spirits.

Tbh it would be great to have a conversation in good spirits, the problem is it seems we can’t, Just taking this case in isolation, there should have been an immediate red flag for the staff that this person exposed themselves, my feeling is pre op trans women would be respectful of being in a shared female space,we, men and women have all managed to change in a communal space or at the beach without exposing ourselves so to my mind this was a deliberate act which was then dealt with appallingly by the staff probably due to some of the reasons TS outlined above, so until we can move on from name calling or worse we are where we are

[Captain.Remy]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Tbh it would be great to have a conversation in good spirits, the problem is it seems we can’t, Just taking this case in isolation, there should have been an immediate red flag for the staff that this person exposed themselves, my feeling is pre op trans women would be respectful of being in a shared female space,we, men and women have all managed to change in a communal space or at the beach without exposing ourselves so to my mind this was a deliberate act which was then dealt with appallingly by the staff probably due to some of the reasons TS outlined above, so until we can move on from name calling or worse we are where we are

I believe both parties can't have a proper conversation currently and it's mostly due to social media amplifying everything and resorting to name calling way too easily.

Social media is not the best media to have any kind of serious conversation to begin with, let alone a discussion about rights in general.

At the shelter for LGBT+ people I partially work for, we try to organize debates based on those issues and I remember we hosted a discussion between cis women and trans women one day. Both groups had strong opinions but in the end it turned out to be super respectful and everyone got to talk.
No name calling and if I remember correctly the outcome was that more gender neutral places should exist. And both groups now walk together at Pride and at walks for womens rights etc
It's just an example and one of many possible outcomes but I feel like open face to face discussions do more good than bad.