[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Comin' over ere' resizing my pictures!

[bots]

Jon has spent the last season and a bit saying you are my queen, even in the last episode where Varys pointed out what would happen, he said, she is my queen .... how is he now going to say ... oh ... you really are queen now .... YOUR NOT MY QUEEN

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

Jon has spent the last season and a bit saying you are my queen, even in the last episode where Varys pointed out what would happen, he said, she is my queen .... how is he now going to say ... oh ... you really are queen now .... YOUR NOT MY QUEEN

To be fair he's been justifying all of her actions thus far (torching the Tarlys, etc.) as "hard acts of war" or even things like Varys as treason. There's no way to justify her actions at King's Landing as anything but a war crime. Even burning JUST the soldiers after they had thrown down their weapons would be a war crime... deliberately killing civilians - not even collateral damage, but deliberate massacre - is up there with (or BEYOND) the very worst warlords in real human history .

[Niamh.]

Oh also my sister in law was in that episode last night running behind Arya and the Hound and probably ended up torched RIP

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Oh also my sister in law was in that episode last night running behind Arya and the Hound and probably ended up torched RIP

You're handling it pretty well. I take it you weren't that close.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

You're handling it pretty well. I take it you weren't that close.

It's kind of funny really because the shortened version of her name is Ash

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I wonder if this is how GRRM had planned it for the book? He could have made her progression into madness more believable I think, it was all too fast in the show, same with Jaimes turn back to the darkside

Pretty sure you're correct

Originally Posted by Niamh.

It's kind of funny really because the shortened version of her name is Ash

Too soon.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Pretty sure you're correct





Too soon.

I really really hope he finishes the books now, maybe the fact that the show has made such a hash of the ending, will motivate him to start writing again?

[Niamh.]

I wonder if this is how GRRM had planned it for the book? He could have made her progression into madness more believable I think, it was all too fast in the show, same with Jaimes turn back to the darkside

[Brother Leon]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I wonder if this is how GRRM had planned it for the book? He could have made her progression into madness more believable I think, it was all too fast in the show, same with Jaimes turn back to the darkside

I would say this is almost certainly GRRM’s end game,It just would have been executed far better.

My prediction for the Book is that:

Spoiler:

it looks like Aegon(who isn’t even on the show funnily enough) would take the Iron Throne from the Lannisters first and be generally loved by the people. He would become the Targaryen prince that freed the people and everything Dany was hoping to be, but was too slow. So Dany would end up Burning a City that doesn’t want her and killing her own Nephew and rightful heir in order to become The Queen and the Usurper, Kin Slayer etc everything she has hated and wanted to crush.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

I would say this is almost certainly GRRM’s end game,It just would have been executed far better.

My prediction for the Book is that:

Spoiler:

it looks like Aegon(who isn’t even on the show funnily enough) would take the Iron Throne from the Lannisters first and be generally loved by the people. He would become the Targaryen prince that freed the people and everything Dany was hoping to be, but was too slow. So Dany would end up Burning a City that doesn’t want her and killing her own Nephew and rightful heir in order to become The Queen and the Usurper, Kin Slayer etc everything she has hated and wanted to crush.

See already that's waaay more hard hitting and much more believable. Maybe you should finish the books for him Leon

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brother Leon

I would say this is almost certainly GRRM’s end game,It just would have been executed far better.

My prediction for the Book is that:

Spoiler:

it looks like Aegon(who isn’t even on the show funnily enough) would take the Iron Throne from the Lannisters first and be generally loved by the people. He would become the Targaryen prince that freed the people and everything Dany was hoping to be, but was too slow. So Dany would end up Burning a City that doesn’t want her and killing her own Nephew and rightful heir in order to become The Queen and the Usurper, Kin Slayer etc everything she has hated and wanted to crush.

IDK why thats spoilered

but in answer to it (so niamh knows its safe to click )

Spoiler:

That sounds about right. Of course that would make so much more sense. It has never ever made sense to me why they merged Jon with Aegon anyway..such an odd decision

[bots]

Youtube video

[MTVN]

I wonder if Dany knew about Tyrion freeing Jaime and thought he had contrived to get the bells ringing and save Cersei and that's what made her finally snap - the fact another adviser (her most important one) had betrayed her made her decide to go against all the advice she had been taking. Pretty much everyone she formed any emotional connection with has either betrayed her or died and so torching the whole city is the only way to stop that happening again. At this point she's completely desensitised to violence and anyone else's pain

I was mainly disappointed with just how easy it was, not once was she ever under threat or have any moments of danger. Surely someone like Cersei has a back up plan if the weapons get torched.

[user104658]

My other explanation for Dany's horrific character development is that he has planned all along for Dany to become the mad queen but her madness builds in subtle-yet-clear ways throughout the books... but he didn't reveal the "ending" to the showrunners until they were about to write and film the final episodes of S8; so they didn't edge Dany's character in that direction and had to just have a sudden jarring shift in her character in order to have it end as specified.

[Vicky.]

I do think they have showed her gradually getting worse and worse in her want to rule. However, not quite to the stage where she burns thousands of innocents for literally no reason. Shes been clearly more and more focussed on the throne, clearly more and more arrogant, clearly more and more power hungry (and basically sometimes a bit delusional about how shes the worlds saviour and stuff and making out its for the people, rather than because she just wants it), and has had a few dodgy moments. I could well have bought (and thought this would happen and was screamed at by dany fans for saying this was possible ) her maybe..killing Jon so that the throne was hers, or something like that. A small rampage to get rid of those who knew about Jons parentage, or to kill off a few advisors who had pissed her off. Or a couple more 'you WILL bow to me' murders. Something like that.

But this was not being power mad. It was being a total lunatic and just..killing (and killing people you reckon you should rule too..) for the sake of it, no reasoning at all behind it. As I mentioned the Tarleys were another decision I questioned, and all for more 'bend the knee', but this is obviously literally 1000x worse than that. Power mad, and blood thirsty are not the same thing. So while I do buy and think the developments been there for her to turn 'bad', certainly not for the level they went to.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I do think they have showed her gradually getting worse and worse in her want to rule. However, not quite to the stage where she burns thousands of innocents for literally no reason. Shes been clearly more and more focussed on the throne, clearly more and more arrogant, clearly more and more power hungry (and basically sometimes a bit delusional about how shes the worlds saviour and stuff and making out its for the people, rather than because she just wants it), and has had a few dodgy moments. I could well have bought (and thought this would happen and was screamed at by dany fans for saying this was possible ) her maybe..killing Jon so that the throne was hers, or something like that. A small rampage to get rid of those who knew about Jons parentage, or to kill off a few advisors who had pissed her off. Or a couple more 'you WILL bow to me' murders. Something like that.

But this was not being power mad. It was being a total lunatic and just..killing (and killing people you reckon you should rule too..) for the sake of it, no reasoning at all behind it. As I mentioned the Tarleys were another decision I questioned, and all for more 'bend the knee', but this is obviously literally 1000x worse than that. Power mad, and blood thirsty are not the same thing. So while I do buy and think the developments been there for her to turn 'bad', certainly not for the level they went to.

I agree - doing something over the top and "power mad" (like burning the Red Keep after the bells had rung) wouldn't have been out of character. Turning on her friends and allies wouldn't have been out of character... but burning the innocent civilians, children and babies included, is SO out of character that it fails to make sense on any level. Her entire motivation for gaining power has been to protect the weak from the powerful. So while it might be supposed to be "irony", it just doesn't work, because it could only possibly mean that her supposed motives all along were lies (and they were clearly never made out to be lies).

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I agree - doing something over the top and "power mad" (like burning the Red Keep after the bells had rung) wouldn't have been out of character.

That wouldn't have been power mad as such, that would have been the move that made sense I think. Even after the surrender.

Ugh I was actually shouting at the TV while she floated around on Drogon winding her way up all the streets leaving them in flames...like playing snake slowly on her way to Cersei while roasting kids. Like..just fly direct to her, blast her and be done with it. Easy enough to do, surely

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

...like playing snake slowly on her way to Cersei while roasting kids.

I saw someone on Twitter describe it as "Firey Pacman"

[Ramsay]

GRRM already dismissed that rumour about the books being finished

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a...ast-two-books/

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ramsay

GRRM already dismissed that rumour about the books being finished

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a...ast-two-books/

waaa

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Ramsay

GRRM already dismissed that rumour about the books being finished

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a...ast-two-books/

Well...he would say that.

Hes hardly going to admit to sitting on the finished books because of a contract (or other reason). There would be outrage!

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ramsay

GRRM already dismissed that rumour about the books being finished

https://www.digitalspy.com/tv/ustv/a...ast-two-books/

Sounds like exactly what someone who had finished the books would say

[Niamh.]

Was reading some reviews of the episode and this line made me laugh the most

One consistent truth in Game of Thrones: Jon Snow still knows nothing.

https://ie.ign.com/articles/2019/05/...s8-ep-5-review

[Niamh.]

So, eventhough I did find the character progression a bit unbelievable, I have to say that I do also I agree with this reviewer (on the positives of the episode)

While "The Long Night" showed us an army that was outgunned and outnumbered, but one that had nevertheless chosen to fight, the true horror of "The Bells" was that these casualties were innocent civilians - people who have no role to play in the game of thrones, and probably don't give a damn who's wearing the crown as long as they can still feed their family and keep a roof over their heads. It's the most realistic depiction of war the show has ever given us, seeming to purposefully evoke some of the horrifying images we've seen in the Middle East and even closer to home in recent years - with bloodied civilians covered in ash, desperately searching for loved ones.

Whether you agree with some of the characters' choices or not, the destruction of King's Landing gets to the heart of what George R. R. Martin seemed to be exploring when he began writing A Song of Ice and Fire - that even if you win a war, you still lose, and that those who suffer most are usually the ones who have the least power. If Game of Thrones leaves us with that nihilistic (but ultimately honest) message in the finale, it won't have all been for naught, even if the events of this penultimate episode seem to guarantee that the final installment will be a divisive one.

https://ie.ign.com/articles/2019/05/...s8-ep-5-review