[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Yes but my post came after reading numerous posts from you spouting off about what Corbyn is and what left wing thinkers are, based on right wing propaganda.

You, possibly more than anyone else here, belittle and make nonsense of every serious political debate we attempt to have.

Not based upon 'Right Wing propaganda - or any other 'propaganda', only upon unimpeachable hard historical FACT. Corbyn's personal ideologies are transparent by his own words and deeds, and are historically documented for the world to see and read and hear.

No one has fabricated all the videos featuring this dangerous idiot, and no one has forged all the written words he has uttered in public.

[DemolitionRed]

I'm taking a quick coffee break from work, which is just about over, so I don't have time to properly respond at this moment in time.

I'm not ignoring this and will respond later.

[user104658]

Sadly, I have come to the conclusion that whilst I actually like and agree with a lot of what Corbyn has to say and what he stands for... He is actually pretty awful at expressing himself and his intentions clearly and his good messages are ham-fisted (wahey Dave...) and end up swaying between extreme and naive.

It's a shame. What we need is a Corbyn 20 years younger with a stronger, clearer voice.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Sadly, I have come to the conclusion that whilst I actually like and agree with a lot of what Corbyn has to say and what he stands for... He is actually pretty awful at expressing himself and his intentions clearly and his good messages are ham-fisted (wahey Dave...) and end up swaying between extreme and naive.

It's a shame. What we need is a Corbyn 20 years younger with a stronger, clearer voice.

That's part of the reason no one had really heard of him before the leadership campaign. He wasn't mainstream enough to be offered a role in government but he also wasn't charismatic enough to become a prominent left-winger in his own right like Tony Benn was and, to a lesser extent, someone like Dennis Skinner. Corbyn has just floated around for thirty odd years not making much of an impact on anyone. Yes he has now mobilised a certain demographic but I think that was more a case of being in the right place at the right time for him.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by MTVN

That's part of the reason no one had really heard of him before the leadership campaign. He wasn't mainstream enough to be offered a role in government but he also wasn't charismatic enough to become a prominent left-winger in his own right like Tony Benn was and, to a lesser extent, someone like Dennis Skinner. Corbyn has just floated around for thirty odd years not making much of an impact on anyone. Yes he has now mobilised a certain demographic but I think that was more a case of being in the right place at the right time for him.

There are many reasons Corbyn hasn't been in the lime light regarding front row politics. New Labour put Corbyn where he would be most useful but because of his brand of left wing politics they needed to ensure they kept him busy.

Corbyn was used (along with others) on behalf of the labour party, to set about peace talks with Sinn Fein, Jerry Adams, Fatah, Hezbollah and Hamas. He's the man who has made a life long commitment to 'his' cause; the man who was Islington North local MP for 32 years; the man with the lowest expenses claims of any MP on record and a champion of controversial causes.

Even if people hate Corbyn's ideas, He's the fly in the ointment that will bring the Tory's racing back towards middle ground. He is a kick up the ass and just what the Tories needed.

[DemolitionRed]

Wow - 'The Ego Has Landed'. I'm sorry, but EGO permeates every sentence of your post.

Ego is Ego; it’s neither negative or positive and its something we all poses because its what forms our personality so yes, my ego represented what I said in my post and your ego represents your response to me.

I was deliberately careful with my words; tiptoed on eggshells if you like, NOT to overly offend you but for someone who is so easily offended (by me), I may as well of pitched a tent on your property and thrown your kittens down the well.

I certainly do not need lessons from you on this subject - especially in such a patronising post which seems as if it has been written by a pompous Primary School teacher for the benefit of her class of 7 year olds.

For goodness sake, calm down. You, the man who has done little more than patronize virtually everything I’ve ever had to say on here, is now getting a monk on because he himself feels patronized...how very dare I?!?!. If you can’t take a taste your own medicine, then I suggest you stop baiting me at every opportunity. Unlike you, I rarely get personal but that doesn’t mean I can’t.

Would I feel my children and grandchildrens future would be assured and that they would be 'looked after' under Corbyn's ideal United Kingdom?

Like I said, its subjective. You have every right to feel the way you do; the same goes for me.

Here, I will simply challenge you to abandon your rhetoric and debate me on whether Corbyn is an anti-UK terrorist sympathiser or not, and whether he has, indeed, said the things he is quoted in MANY media reports of having said.

Incidentally, your: "Some people with a keen political interest, won't take anything a right wing or a left wing story tells us without going off and digging a little deeper." is offensive and arrogant. You are not the only one who has "a keen political interest", though your sentence is 'self-elevating' in this respect.


Here we go again. You really do need to calm down and stop taking things SO personally.
I’ve already written about the ‘lies’ regarding Corbyn being an anti-UK terrorist sympathizer but I’ll say this one more time.

The Tory party were the ones who started the peace talks with NI. When Labour got elected in 1997 Corbyn was asked (on behalf of the government) to act as 'go between'. The big sticking point was the release of political prisoners because without that, there would be no peace talks. Corbyn and his staff, under direct government instruction, spent months talking to both prisoners and their reps regarding the proposed 'prisoner release scheme'. This was his key role in getting the Good Friday agreement. Without talking to the Sinn Fein the IRA could not of agreed to any peace agreement.

I can't prove this is true, just as you can't prove this is untrue but this was well documented long before you or I had ever heard of Corbyn.

I can show you words written and voiced by Corbyn regarding the reasons behind his assosiation with Raed Salah, Hamas, Hezbollah but I can't categorically tell you he's speaking the truth, though understanding his involvement in The Good Friday Agreement, I could probably summarise his words are truth.

Do you have proof that this man is a traitor? If so I'm all ears.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Wow - 'The Ego Has Landed'. I'm sorry, but EGO permeates every sentence of your post.

Ego is Ego; it’s neither negative or positive and its something we all poses because its what forms our personality so yes, my ego represented what I said in my post and your ego represents your response to me.

I was deliberately careful with my words; tiptoed on eggshells if you like, NOT to overly offend you but for someone who is so easily offended (by me), I may as well of pitched a tent on your property and thrown your kittens down the well.

I certainly do not need lessons from you on this subject - especially in such a patronising post which seems as if it has been written by a pompous Primary School teacher for the benefit of her class of 7 year olds.

For goodness sake, calm down. You, the man who has done little more than patronize virtually everything I’ve ever had to say on here, is now getting a monk on because he himself feels patronized...how very dare I?!?!. If you can’t take a taste your own medicine, then I suggest you stop baiting me at every opportunity. Unlike you, I rarely get personal but that doesn’t mean I can’t.

Would I feel my children and grandchildrens future would be assured and that they would be 'looked after' under Corbyn's ideal United Kingdom?

Like I said, its subjective. You have every right to feel the way you do; the same goes for me.

Here, I will simply challenge you to abandon your rhetoric and debate me on whether Corbyn is an anti-UK terrorist sympathiser or not, and whether he has, indeed, said the things he is quoted in MANY media reports of having said.

Incidentally, your: "Some people with a keen political interest, won't take anything a right wing or a left wing story tells us without going off and digging a little deeper." is offensive and arrogant. You are not the only one who has "a keen political interest", though your sentence is 'self-elevating' in this respect.


Here we go again. You really do need to calm down and stop taking things SO personally.
I’ve already written about the ‘lies’ regarding Corbyn being an anti-UK terrorist sympathizer but I’ll say this one more time.

The Tory party were the ones who started the peace talks with NI. When Labour got elected in 1997 Corbyn was asked (on behalf of the government) to act as 'go between'. The big sticking point was the release of political prisoners because without that, there would be no peace talks. Corbyn and his staff, under direct government instruction, spent months talking to both prisoners and their reps regarding the proposed 'prisoner release scheme'. This was his key role in getting the Good Friday agreement. Without talking to the Sinn Fein the IRA could not of agreed to any peace agreement.

I can't prove this is true, just as you can't prove this is untrue but this was well documented long before you or I had ever heard of Corbyn.

I can show you words written and voiced by Corbyn regarding the reasons behind his assosiation with Raed Salah, Hamas, Hezbollah but I can't categorically tell you he's speaking the truth, though understanding his involvement in The Good Friday Agreement, I could probably summarise his words are truth.
w
Dao you have proof that this man is a traitor? If so I'm all ears.

Laughing My Old Black Ass Off. Utter meaningless twaddle.

Please show me proof where I have 'baited' you 'at every opportunity'?

"tiptoed on eggshells if you like, NOT to overly offend" me? B.S.

You mean you spout 'Leftie' rhetoric then when challenged with the truth, you get the jitters through having no appropriate response - as now; a whole lotta typing which says zilch.

As for; "Calm down, stop taking things so personally", I am calm, but do take things personally when things are personal - no matter what you say now.

And: "I’ve already written about the ‘lies’ regarding Corbyn being an anti-UK terrorist sympathizer but I’ll say this one more time."

Listen to yourself! Do you think that because you call the truth a lie that this convinces? WHO are you. We can read, listen, and watch with our own senses, just as we can evaluate the information that we absorb from reading, listening and watching to formulate our own opinions on what is the truth or not.

And I am not some fat French cafe owner called Renee Artois, so you can save the; "Listen carefully, I will say this only once" routine.

In addition, how old are you, because - again - you presume too much when you state: "... but this was well documented long before you or I had ever heard of Corbyn." because I am old enough to have been well aware of Corbyn decades ago when I was actually a staunch Labour supporter and activist.

Your apologetics for Corbyn's involvement with murdering IRA terrorists and Hezbollah and Hamas won't wash with me I'm afraid, because logical fool that I am, I trust 30 years of Corbyn's own words and deeds far more than I trust 10 minutes of hastily cabbaged together white-washing and damage limitation now that the perennial shadow-dweller has been afforded the spotlight and a chance to become PM.

Finally luvvie, as far as providing you with proof that Corbyn is a traitor - define 'traitor', because your leftie definition will definitely be far removed from mine.

The truth is out there - Google it.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

There are many reasons Corbyn hasn't been in the lime light regarding front row politics. New Labour put Corbyn where he would be most useful but because of his brand of left wing politics they needed to ensure they kept him busy.

Corbyn was used (along with others) on behalf of the labour party, to set about peace talks with Sinn Fein, Jerry Adams, Fatah, Hezbollah and Hamas. He's the man who has made a life long commitment to 'his' cause; the man who was Islington North local MP for 32 years; the man with the lowest expenses claims of any MP on record and a champion of controversial causes.

Even if people hate Corbyn's ideas, He's the fly in the ointment that will bring the Tory's racing back towards middle ground. He is a kick up the ass and just what the Tories needed.

Admittedly Corbyn became an MP at the height of defeat for Labour's left but he was still an MP for years before the birth of New Labour, he never made an impact then and he never made an impact after.

Corbyn has always been ideologically predisposed to Irish republicanism and lets be clear that his position on the IRA was always well removed from any British government in power throughout the Troubles. The same is true of Hezbollah and Hamas. Did he ever actually engage with those latter two in an official capacity?

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Admittedly Corbyn became an MP at the height of defeat for Labour's left but he was still an MP for years before the birth of New Labour, he never made an impact then and he never made an impact after.

Corbyn has always been ideologically predisposed to Irish republicanism and lets be clear that his position on the IRA was always well removed from any British government in power throughout the Troubles. The same is true of Hezbollah and Hamas. Did he ever actually engage with those latter two in an official capacity?

The Tories were the ones who started peace talks in Northern Ireland. Prior to that though, John Hume and Gerry Adams had already started peace talks and were negotiating a ceasefire. All of this has stalled before the Labour party were elected in 1997. This is when Mo Mowlan, on behalf of the British Government asked for Corbyn to be go between.

This is a question put to Corbyn by the Jewish Chronicle and beneath is Corbyn's reply

Why do you associate with Hamas and Hezbollah and refer to them as your “friends”?

The term ‘friends’ was used purely as diplomatic language in the context of dialogue, not an endorsement of a particular set of views. In the difficult quest of establishing a peace, it is common for the term “friend” to be used as part of the process. “Friend” in this case becomes a term of diplomacy as an aid to dialogue between disparate groups rather than a description of a relationship or an endorsement of a set of views.

Jeremy has met many people with whom he profoundly disagrees, in order to try to promote a peace process. He has supported and continues to support peace and reconciliation processes in South Africa, Latin and Central America, Ireland and of course in the Middle East. He believes it is necessary to speak to people with whom there is disagreement – merely talking to people who already agree won't bring about a settlement.

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/14...even-questions

[Livia]

The Tories are delighted with Corbyn. There were stories of Tories signing up to Labour just to vote him in and I believe that to be true. It couldn't have worked out better for them.

[user104658]

You're fighting a losing battle there DR. Some people will never understand why Corbyn would want to engage diplomatically with terrorist leaders using gentle language, because they don't believe that those terrorists "deserve" the language of peace over bullets and bombs "because of the things they have done", perhaps because they see it as weak, or pandering. Even if that staunch refusal to engage in such communication means risking the lives of thousands more innocent people.

People prefer revenge but... meh. People are generally vengeful in all aspects of life.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You're fighting a losing battle there DR. Some people will never understand why Corbyn would want to engage diplomatically with terrorist leaders using gentle language, because they don't believe that those terrorists "deserve" the language of peace over bullets and bombs "because of the things they have done", perhaps because they see it as weak, or pandering. Even if that staunch refusal to engage in such communication means risking the lives of thousands more innocent people.

People prefer revenge but... meh. People are generally vengeful in all aspects of life.

Come off it T.S, it has zilch to do with a 'statesman' engaging diplomatically with terrorists for the 'greater good' - Corbyn admires and identifies with these murdering bastards. He has never once called the Israelis his 'friends' and is pro-Palestinian anti-Israeli in thought word and deed just as much as he was pro IRA before that.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Come off it T.S, it has zilch to do with a 'statesman' engaging diplomatically with terrorists for the 'greater good' - Corbyn admires and identifies with these murdering bastards. He has never once called the Israelis his 'friends' and is pro-Palestinian anti-Israeli in thought word and deed just as much as he was pro IRA before that.

There is honestly little to zero evidence that he admires or identifies with terrorists... You can state that there is hard evidence that he does, but there just isn't. Might it suggest that he does? Certainly it's not impossible, but to state that it's obvious or a certainty... Is skewed, to say the least.

As for his stance on Israel / Palestine... . I'm far from being a "Palestine supporter" and certainly not a supporter of many of the methods used, or a supporter of the militarised groups within Palestine that would undoubtedly take full control if Israel was not present. However, that's a pragmatic "we're here now so what would actually happen if..." view. I wouldn't want Israel to fall because of the people who would fill the power vacuum. However, taking that out of the equation? I am 100% ideologically opposed to Israel in concept. I think it was an inflammatory mistake, no matter how you look at it.

Being anti-Israel does not alone make one a supporter of Islam or of Terrorism.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You're fighting a losing battle there DR. Some people will never understand why Corbyn would want to engage diplomatically with terrorist leaders using gentle language, because they don't believe that those terrorists "deserve" the language of peace over bullets and bombs "because of the things they have done", perhaps because they see it as weak, or pandering. Even if that staunch refusal to engage in such communication means risking the lives of thousands more innocent people.

People prefer revenge but... meh. People are generally vengeful in all aspects of life.

I'm quite enjoying myself TS

[JoshBB]

People are really clutching at straws to criticise JC aren't they

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

People are really clutching at straws to criticise JC aren't they

And a lot of 'people' are too blind to see the Haystack let alone where there is a straw to clutch.

Should have gone to specsavers.

[user104658]

Oh, as for why he might not use the "friends" approach equally that should be fairly evident. It's a pacification technique and Israelis were not the ones he wished to pacify?

[empire]

the fact that bin laden was on america's payroll for some years, he was nothing but a puppet figure in a boogeyman organisation that may never of existed, because back in the late 90s, clinton wanted to reduce the size of their armed forces, and cut their huge funding, their generals where not happy about that and needed another war, but thats not proof in what had happend,

[Nedusa]

To be honest the whole official story of 911 is the actual Conspiracy theory and anyone who believes it needs to have their hooves cleaned and their coat sheared.....