[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I fail to see one triumph Joey, the selling off of infrastructure and property, the allowances for foreign investment in nuclear capabilities in this country rather than their own.
The removal of civil rights, public services, medical, social, civic, legal, transport, the restrictions of human rights, protest, unions, and the possibility that communications can and will be compromised.
Those 36.8% will rue the day like the rest of us.

I agree with you Kizzy,I am glad you are on here or I'd likely go insane on this.

The only change I would make to your post is a good number of that 36.8% will rue the day but only once it hits them in their pocket or personally.
Most of tem are not bothered about the devastation being inflicted on the vulnerable, who now are having likely the covering of cost of their just appeals as to loss of benefits taken away by this wretched excuse for a govt.
meaning even being poor, they lose now the right to justice.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I fail to see one triumph Joey, the selling off of infrastructure and property, the allowances for foreign investment in nuclear capabilities in this country rather than their own.
The removal of civil rights, public services, medical, social, civic, legal, transport, the restrictions of human rights, protest, unions, and the possibility that communications can and will be compromised.
Those 36.8% will rue the day like the rest of us.

21 pre-election promises broken in such a short time. Its as though they are sprinting towards a final goal post with sledgehammers in their hands. What is their end goal? I'm baffled by the way Cameron is behaving at the moment. That man is a liar; he’s a propaganda profiteer who has successfully created the peasants to revolt against the peasants.

We all know the countries in a mess but most of us seem to think it’s either the scrounging unemployed and immigrants fault or Gordon Browns. This government relies on our ignorance.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

21 pre-election promises broken in such a short time. Its as though they are sprinting towards a final goal post with sledgehammers in their hands. What is their end goal? I'm baffled by the way Cameron is behaving at the moment. That man is a liar; he’s a propaganda profiteer who has successfully created the peasants to revolt against the peasants.

We all know the countries in a mess but most of us seem to think it’s either the scrounging unemployed and immigrants fault or Gordon Browns. This government relies on our ignorance.

Really glad you are on here too DR.
I am not really someone who should comment on Cameron because I dislike the man as a politician intensely.
His lies as to the NHS and that top down re-organisation at massive cost is just one of the many things I will never forgive him for.

I agree with you,he is a political liar and of the worst kind in my view, his word not to be trusted on near anything.

This post and you earlier post are well balanced and spot on.
Again well said.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Where are the examples that he is doing anything of merit for the country?

did you go to bed last night in a comfortable bed, under a strong roof, in a warm room, with food in your belly? Did your loved ones also enjoy that comfort? that is Cameron's job, to make sure that continues happening. so if the answer is yes, he is a success.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by lostalex

did you go to bed last night in a comfortable bed, under a strong roof, in a warm room, with food in your belly? Did your loved ones also enjoy that comfort? that is Cameron's job, to make sure that continues happening. so if the answer is yes, he is a success.

That is the case for many absolutely however this man's policies are taking more and more of those beds away from those who are the weakest and poorest.
His obscene and unjust bedroom tax still causing massive problems for those at the fare end of the scale.
People he does not a thing to help with and indeed looks for more rotten policies to make their lives,whether they be poor or vulnerable or even sick and disabled a massive struggle.
Even removing care from those who need assistance at home
Inflicting more and more financial burdens on them and now even attempting to make the financial position of even those in the lowest paid work harder,with his tax credit cutting plan.

Now, as for those with great wealth and even multiple houses, he will certainly be ensuring that they have nothing to worry about and that 'all' their homes and room is every house can be heated,that they can for sure sleep easy knowing he will not be doing anything as to policy that will reduce their status in the slightest.

I had all the things you list in your post above,which I have had all my life so far anyway.
I don't consider them a success even if everyone did have such things, I consider them a right that should be there for all citizens of the UK,anyone of great wealth or virtually no wealt too.
However, I have got out there myself and found endless people now for who even what you list above is fast becoming a pipedream.
Many may have a warm bed but not a warm room or warm house, due to having to watch funding as for heating.
The bedroom tax still taking off people who are poorest who are then left with little for even food.

The facts that anyone, let alone rising numbers, are in that situation is a failure of any govt, the last one we had just as for this one now.
There is nothing successful about preserving peoples rights, that should always be the right and decent thing to do anyway by anyone in power.

To not make sure the most vulnerable are fully protected and not made worse by policy making should be the standard duty of every PM and govt. This one is making things harder for those most vulnerable,all across the board and they know it is too.

Plenty of charities and welfare groups have warned this govt over the last 3 years at least of the devastation of their polices on the weakest, they take not a blind bit of notice.
If that to anyone could be termed success,then I say never ever in my book, never anywhere at anytime.
It should be a national scandal in fact never mind even be just thought of as any kind of success.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

did you go to bed last night in a comfortable bed, under a strong roof, in a warm room, with food in your belly? Did your loved ones also enjoy that comfort? that is Cameron's job, to make sure that continues happening. so if the answer is yes, he is a success.

It's only by pure luck that I have been one of the lucky ones to keep my head above water if I'm honest.
As Joey said there are thousands that don't have the comfort of a 'home' as opposed to shelter due to Mr Cameron and the welfare reforms.
In this extremely wealthy country that is a damning indictment and proof of how ineffective he is.
If the country is burgeoning as is to be believed due to foreign investment then why are those at the poorest end of the spectrum being squeezed so mercilessly, why do austerity measures only apply to some people?

It's contradictory to harp on about the need to make tax credit savings and then reduce the higher rate of tax.
The warm bed scenario for many people is on a knife edge, the season of heat or eat is here again and many won't survive it.
I don't care if I'm accused of wringing my hands or whatever it's a fact that year on year the number of deaths across the UK attributed to living below the poverty line increases.

[DemolitionRed]

oops!

[user104658]

There are worse high-level Tories.

That's about the best that can be said for him.

[DemolitionRed]

Great post Joey, you will make a politician yet!
In the time I’ve known you on here, you have stuck to your principles and I for one, think those principles are genuinely based on compassion towards a working class and middle class Britain. Regardless of what fence you sit on though, I’d enjoy debating with you, simply because of the substance you put into what you write.

Most people who vote and especially those who don’t bother turning up to vote, do so (or don’t bother) because whatever is happening in Britain hasn’t infringed on their own personal lives or at least they believe it hasn’t. Most people lean towards the party their regular paper believe in and most people who read the Daily Mail or The Guardian, come from families and hang around with friends who read similar or the same paper; so when people talk about popular opinion, they generally mean popular opinion between their peers and relatives.

I spent years as a LibDem supporter. I was raised with their sort of principles and because both my husband and farther were regular attendees at their old headquarters in Cowley St, I was able to attend some of their functions, which inevitably strengthened my support for them. If they had stayed out of the coalition, I’d likely still be supporting them but what I see now is a party with no point and although I’m told that they are now re-grouping out of the limelight, I don’t believe they will ever re-morph into what they once were.

I had no interest in the Blairite type NL and the Conservative party didn’t overly worry me but I will admit to initially being quite excited at the prospects of coalition government. I have though, always had a fascination with Marxist philosophy (which a lot of people confuse with Russian type communism ) and so when Corbyn came along, my interest in British politics was re-kindled.

By the way…friends and family have tried teasing me by calling me a Marxist. I just smile sweetly and ask them to explain what they mean, which of course they can’t!

[DemolitionRed]

Jamie, I think that is fairly typical. Saying that NL were just a party who aligned themselves with the right and so it was a really difficult choice in these last elections.

Out of interest, what does she think of Corbyn ?

[Kizzy]

Jamie your mother may well be right, is she a homeowner?
That was said to 'turn people conservative directly', as that is the ideal the property owning capitalist ethos maybe she's heard this somewhere.
Or the theory of bourgeoisification?

[Kizzy]

David isn't satisfied with ruining the country... He want's to ruin Europe too.

https://www.gov.uk/government/speech...eech-on-europe

Here is his letter of renegotiation.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...-politics-live

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Out of interest, what does she think of Corbyn ?

She doesn't really think anything of him. When I was younger both my parents were very politically minded and were always discussing the parties at election time etc and drumming it into us that politics is important, but over the last few years they've both completely lost interest. I find it really weird, but I think it's a case of disenchantment. But even though they're not interested anymore, they'll still vote, because they always have.

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Jamie your mother may well be right, is she a homeowner?
That was said to 'turn people conservative directly', as that is the ideal the property owning capitalist ethos maybe she's heard this somewhere.
Or the theory of bourgeoisification?

She is a homeowner yes but to be honest, even if the conservatives do have policies that would benefit her, that's just a happy coincidence, because she really has no idea what they stand for or what their policies are.

I'm gonna print this thread and show it to her haha!

[Kizzy]

Maybe it simply was a case of better the devil you know?...
It is well known that as people grow older they become more conservative in their outlook, as they accumulate property and possessions, the right are seen as the party of the family unit and the protectors of traditional values.
Except now they aren't.

[Kizzy]

Sir Bill Cash, a Conservative, says the proposals are a “pig in a poke”. Almost all of the proposals will require treaty change. But that is not on offer, so how will the government get the guarantees it wants.

enoughway ithway hetay igpay okesjay!

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Sir Bill Cash, a Conservative, says the proposals are a “pig in a poke”. Almost all of the proposals will require treaty change. But that is not on offer, so how will the government get the guarantees it wants.

enoughway ithway hetay igpay okesjay!

They are all things he has talked about for the last year,he has been planning this for nearly 3 years now and this is the best he can come up with.
I tell you this, nothing he said today will heal the divisions in the Conservative party on Europe and could even make things worse.

This man is a political danger to himself never mind the UK and the EU.

[DemolitionRed]

I agree with Bagehot at the Economist; " Cameron has now committed himself to phoney renegotiations."

[MTVN]

He won't get everything he wants but some of the demands are moderate enough to get a favourable reception and at least he can then say he's done something. And at least he's trying: pretty much everyone agrees that the EU in its current state has a lot of flaws that serious need to be addressed if it wants to survive. We're not the only country who wants different terms: there is plenty of sympathy for the UK's aims in Germany, Sweden, Denmark and elsewhere.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

He won't get everything he wants but some of the demands are moderate enough to get a favourable reception and at least he can then say he's done something. And at least he's trying: pretty much everyone agrees that the EU in its current state has a lot of flaws that serious need to be addressed if it wants to survive. We're not the only country who wants different terms: there is plenty of sympathy for the UK's aims in Germany, Sweden, Denmark and elsewhere.

I'll wager that support is firmly in one area.

[JoshBB]

Ruin? Well, not completely. But he is undoubtedly one of the worst prime ministers we've had, second only to thatcher herself.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Ruin? Well, not completely. But he is undoubtedly one of the worst prime ministers we've had, second only to thatcher herself.

I would say Josh that she was miles better than him, she was right in her reforms of the Unions.
She knew when to stop however and not go too far.
She was wrong on many issues but one thing can be said for her, she never set out and persecuted,victimised,demonised and piled pressure on the sick,disabled and most vulnerable like this PM has.

Whatever the views on her,at least she held on to some decency and justice unlike this waste of space we have now in Cameron.

[Kizzy]

“cold advisers of yet colder kings” who “coolly sharpen misery’s sharpest fang … regardless of the poor man’s pang”,

[bots]

I really don't get everyone's gripe with Cameron and the EU. If he wins concessions, they will be good for the interests of the UK. If the EU don't budge, on their heads be it when we get an opportunity to vote

[Kizzy]

'George Osborne has suffered a political setback over his plans to cut working tax credits when a Conservative-controlled select committee condemned his proposed reforms and urged him to consider a pause to undertake a fundamental rethink of his priorities in reforming the welfare state.

In a report, the work and pensions select committee argues that a slower phasing in of the tax credit cuts would compromise neither the government’s commitment to cut spending on welfare nor its aim to balance the books by the end of the parliament. The report was agreed unanimously, including by six Tory MPs.

In a rebuke to the Treasury’s priorities, the MPs warn that “the government is reaching the limits of cuts that can be made to the working-age welfare system, and particularly on those who are strivers”. At the same time, it argues “spending on pensioner benefits will continue to rise sharply and, arguably, unsustainably”.

The chancellor has already been forced by the House of Lords to agree to rethink his plans to save £4.4bn to cut tax credits and has promised that he would to revise his plans in the autumn statement due on 25 November.'


Well well, this is a turn up, I just hope that his doesn't mean that they will forgo the proposed changes to tax credits and turn the scissors towards pensioners...
I have a sickening feeling they will.

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/...t-cuts-reforms

[Kizzy]

PRIME Minister David Cameron has been accused of “high handed and arrogant” meddling after he waded into the debate over county council cuts.

He has tangled with Conservative leader of the authority Ian Hudspeth in an exchange of letters, and come under attack from Labour opposition leader Liz Brighouse, after criticising “unwelcome and counter-productive” plans to close children’s centres.

Writing to Mr Hudspeth, Witney MP Mr Cameron said he was also disappointed with other cuts proposed to elderly day centres and libraries and claimed Oxfordshire’s spending had actually increased over recent years.


Mr Hudspeth, normally considered a political ally, countered by sending a six-page response defending plans to make an extra £50m of savings and accusing Mr Cameron of “inaccurate” comments.

Read his full letter here Ian-Hudspeth-letter.pdf

Opposition leaders seized on the PM’s “staggering” letter, claiming Mr Cameron did not understand the impact of the Government’s policies “in his own backyard”.

If he is so ruthless in Oxfordshire then the rest of the country is toast...

http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/139...line_services/