[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It's an issue because the child was upset by it. She has had enough upset and disturbance in her life clearly without needing to be forced into a situation she was not happy in. I do hate it when peoples' ideology becomes more important that those most affected by it!

What ideology is this... are you accusing me of something here?

The child is fostered, she is 5yrs old the poor little girl is going to be unsettled regardless, that is a sad fact.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Can't be good for the anti Muslim brigade for them to be seen to be doing anything positive, there is no evidence they took her things and just because they speak another language that should not mean that they are unsuitable to foster English children.

The whole thing stinks if you ask me, I am wary of the slant given to this article as well as who and why they are railing against it. The rhetoric is distasteful, has anyone given any thought as to why she is in care initially?
No, appears not although the saddened mother, family , friends and grandparents are all notable appalled although strangely not by being less suitable to care for this little girl than the Muslim undesirables..... :/

Who and why...can you narrow that down please..

I think if you dont spk the language of the child you are fostering then how on earth can you give them the advice or support they will need?

Sorry, but i cant get my head round why you would think that?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by parmnion

Who and why...can you narrow that down please..

I think if you dont spk the language of the child you are fostering then how on earth can you give them the advice or support they will need?

Sorry, but i cant get my head round why you would think that?

They do speak the language, I suggest you read the article, I'm not explaining the entire debate to you.

[Kizzy]

'MPs have expressed concern over the case, including Robert Halfon, the Conservative chairman of the Commons education committee, who said it would be equally concerning if a Muslim child who did not speak English were placed with a Christian foster carer whose family did not speak the child’s language.'


And there we have it, the proof that this is the crux of the issue and this poor little girl is just being used as some pawn in a sick political game to influence public opinion.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/...-foster-carers

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What ideology is this... are you accusing me of something here?

The child is fostered, she is 5yrs old the poor little girl is going to be unsettled regardless, that is a sad fact.

Did you read the article she was very distressed about being in a home where they didn't speak the same language as her. She did not want to stay there.

Sorry but I often feel you see culture before you see people, no doubt something you would accuse me of, but nevertheless not ideal and just from a different perspective.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Did you read the article she was very distressed about being in a home where they didn't speak the same language as her. She did not want to stay there.

Sorry but I often feel you see culture before you see people, no doubt something you would accuse me of, but nevertheless not ideal and just from a different perspective.

Yes I read the article, they can speak her language, she may not wish to stay there but is that the issue?
Across the country can we be sure all other foster children are happy in their placements?
Your presumptions on my character are unwarranted and inaccurate, as are your thoughts on what my view may be on yours.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes I read the article, they can speak her language, she may not wish to stay there but is that the issue?
Across the country can we be sure all other foster children are happy in their placements?
Your presumptions on my character are unwarranted and inaccurate, as are your thoughts on what my view may be on yours.

As foster parents they have responsibilities and they should speak English around her as it obviously upsets her when they don't.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

They do speak the language, I suggest you read the article, I'm not explaining the entire debate to you.

You dont have to e plain the entire debate..just the bit highlighted...

Then can you explain why you are willing to believe the part about them spking english but are less willing to believe some other points like the food and the cross?

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

As foster parents they have responsibilities and they should speak English around her as it obviously upsets her when they don't.

Imagine for the purpose of the debate you were to foster a refugee child, could you in all honesty say that you would never speak English in their presence?... Let's be realistic.
They weren't setting out to upset her just by talking.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by parmnion

You dont have to e plain the entire debate..just the bit highlighted...

Then can you explain why you are willing to believe the part about them spking english but are less willing to believe some other points like the food and the cross?

We don't know the accuracy of the cross issue it seems a little strange to me that a 5yr old would relay such specific details with relation to bacon, easter and the drinking habits of western women.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

We don't know the accuracy of the cross issue it seems a little strange to me that a 5yr old would relay such specific details with relation to bacon, easter and the drinking habits of western women.

It wasn't bacon as such but carbonara her favourite meal her mum used to cook her, apparently she wasn't allowed to have it because it had bacon in it.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

We don't know the accuracy of the cross issue it seems a little strange to me that a 5yr old would relay such specific details with relation to bacon, easter and the drinking habits of western women.

You do know five yr olds are old enough to go to school and converse with teacher..the mum could simply have asked where is your necklace darling...simple answer is i am not allowed to wear it....even me at 5 could have said that.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It's an issue because the child was upset by it. She has had enough upset and disturbance in her life clearly without needing to be forced into a situation she was not happy in. I do hate it when peoples' ideology becomes more important that those most affected by it!

I would imagine it would be quite frightening for a young child if everyone around her kept talking in a language she didn't understand.

[Kizzy]

This child has been removed from her carbonara making mother to the safety of this family, I think it's important to maintain some perspective on this issue.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

This child has been removed from her carbonara making mother to the safety of this family, I think it's important to maintain some perspective on this issue.

To be fair Kizzy, that's a bit of a snap judgement, her mother could be critically ill or dead for all we know :/

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

This child has been removed from her carbonara making mother to the safety of this family, I think it's important to maintain some perspective on this issue.

Whose making a lot of assumptions now. You know nothing about the family circumstances and how temporary the situation may be. Neither do you know how 'safe' this foster family is.

To automatically believe all foster families are good, safe, caring people is naive and being biased towards a group of people is no better than being biased against.

[Beso]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

This child has been removed from her carbonara making mother to the safety of this family, I think it's important to maintain some perspective on this issue.

Wow, just wow.

[Tozzie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I'm in shock... someone has it in their heart to open their family to a child in need and straight away there are those who take that a a negative.

Shameful.

it is negative when they take a cross from the child, thats shameful

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Whose making a lot of assumptions now. You know nothing about the family circumstances and how temporary the situation may be. Neither do you know how 'safe' this foster family is.

To automatically believe all foster families are good, safe, caring people is naive and being biased towards a group of people is no better than being biased against.

Originally Posted by parmnion

Wow, just wow.

You know it's a bizarre day on TiBB when I find myself agreeing with Brillo and Parm... but, yeah.

Kizzy I'm sort of really surprised at the judgement here; children end up in the care system for all sorts of reasons and we have no idea at all what her circumstances are. We also have no idea what the circumstances in the foster care home are. And whilst, yes, there is a decent chance that people are pre-judging the situation based on prejudice, (...gulp...) what Brillo says is true . "Positive discrimination and bias" towards a group of people isn't a lot better than the opposite; especially in a sensitive situation like this. "Assuming the best" doesn't redress others "assuming the worst". We don't know if the situation is good. We don't know if it's bad. And we don't know why she's there. At the end of the day it doesn't sound like the placement is right for this child, that much can be more or less deduced, and that's all that really matters here.

There's a time and a place for trying to address issues of racial / cultural discrimination where it exists. Finding the right home for a child is NOT that time or place.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by parmnion

You dont have to e plain the entire debate..just the bit highlighted...

Then can you explain why you are willing to believe the part about them spking english but are less willing to believe some other points like the food and the cross?

The cross and the carbonara is just hyper bait to add fuel to the fire.

@ Kizzy Imagine for the purpose of the debate you were to foster a refugee child, could you in all honesty say that you would never speak English in their presence?... Let's be realistic.
They weren't setting out to upset her just by talking.

English families that foster refugees aren't expected to speak anything other than English. That's because the child is going to be raised, go to school and eventually be employed in an English speaking nation so its important they pick up the language. Its highly unlikely though, that a child with no English would be placed in such a family. They will normally spend some time in a residential facility with a translator to hand. My gripe with the 'speak nothing but English' rule is, there is still a chance that family can be found and such children may be able to, at some point, return to their country of birth; if not as children, as adults. I don't think we should ever presume its okay for them to lose their mother tongue.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

This child has been removed from her carbonara making mother to the safety of this family, I think it's important to maintain some perspective on this issue.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

The cross and the carbonara is just hyper bait to add fuel to the fire.



English families that foster refugees aren't expected to speak anything other than English. That's because the child is going to be raised, go to school and eventually be employed in an English speaking nation so its important they pick up the language. Its highly unlikely though, that a child with no English would be placed in such a family. They will normally spend some time in a residential facility with a translator to hand. My gripe with the 'speak nothing but English' rule is, there is still a chance that family can be found and such children may be able to, at some point, return to their country of birth; if not as children, as adults. I don't think we should ever presume its okay for them to lose their mother tongue.

Once language is "set" it doesn't get lost, really, so any child of "speaking age" (say 4+ for the majority) will always have their native tongue as a language. At the very least, they would pick it up again very quickly in their home country. There's a high chance that they will always at least partially "think in that language".

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Whose making a lot of assumptions now. You know nothing about the family circumstances and how temporary the situation may be. Neither do you know how 'safe' this foster family is.

To automatically believe all foster families are good, safe, caring people is naive and being biased towards a group of people is no better than being biased against.

Why would they not be 'safe'... I'm sorry I think you're biased in your opinion because they're Muslim.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

You know it's a bizarre day on TiBB when I find myself agreeing with Brillo and Parm... but, yeah.

Kizzy I'm sort of really surprised at the judgement here; children end up in the care system for all sorts of reasons and we have no idea at all what her circumstances are. We also have no idea what the circumstances in the foster care home are. And whilst, yes, there is a decent chance that people are pre-judging the situation based on prejudice, (...gulp...) what Brillo says is true . "Positive discrimination and bias" towards a group of people isn't a lot better than the opposite; especially in a sensitive situation like this. "Assuming the best" doesn't redress others "assuming the worst". We don't know if the situation is good. We don't know if it's bad. And we don't know why she's there. At the end of the day it doesn't sound like the placement is right for this child, that much can be more or less deduced, and that's all that really matters here.

There's a time and a place for trying to address issues of racial / cultural discrimination where it exists. Finding the right home for a child is NOT that time or place.

We don't know why she is in the care system other than that she was 'forcibly' separated from her family, and that she has been in the system for months and months and months, it is not fair for the mother complain that she has not been placed with grandparents, if that was a viable option, and in the majority of cases it is that would have been the first place social services would be looking to place her.

The 'friends' of the family making complaints to have added fuel to the fire of discrimination against the family without any real evidence, it's been taken as red that the child has been in some way been 'abused' by hearing foreign voices, not been served bacon and other alleged slurs against Christian holidays. It's being turned into a witch hunt and personally I find it really distasteful.

We only have one side on this 'debate' which is the slanted article in the Times, therefore I'm not sure how me calling for perspective is so hilarious :/

[Beso]

Bit of an update...

The child was first housed with a muslim family where all this hassle has come from...then housed with a more liberal muslim family.....now she has been housed with her grandparents which was the original wish of the mother...good old tower hamlets..forever abusung the system...labour run i think?

Amazing what a news story can do...well done all outlets that published this story.