[Vicky.]

But its still important that the message gets out about what this law change will actually be. Rather than the fluffy 'its for trans rights' version the activists put out. When its nothing at all to do with trans rights and infact is detrimental to a lot of transsexual people :S

So maybe

People telling the truth about a law change physically attacked by people who do not give a crap about the rights of others and don't want the truth to get out about what the law change actually means for most people?

[Vicky.]

Kind of offtopic, but I think there are as many 'genders' as there are people on this earth. As gender is just personality and dress sense when it comes down to it.

Of course some people have sex dysphoria, but this is not really anything to do with 'gender', its a dislike of their body parts. Like any other dysphoria. If this is eased by surgeries and such, then good for them. All evidence shows though that after surgery, suicide risk actually rises, so I don't think its the 'miracle cure' that some seem to think it is. Either way though,. if adults want to have surgery its up to them. What I dislike most about this whole thing, is the targeting of children. Convincing the likes of 'tomboys' that they actually are boys and setting them on the route to sterilization and lifetime medical intervention. Its just wrong. A kids brain isn't even fully developed ffs. And also, kids with 'gender dysphoria' if just left alone to develop properly, 80%+ of them grow out of it, and most simply become gay adults. This 'transing' kids thing is blatantly homophobic. Its modern day eugenics. Yet has widespread support from people who do not actually think into it. Madness. Total madness.

Just let kids be kids, and let them wear or play with whatever they like. Dress sense and toy choice have nothing to do with their sex To pretend they do, is ****ing dangerous and stupid.

[DemolitionRed]

Prenatal Exposure to Anticonvulsants and Psychosexual Development
https://link.springer.com/article/10...:1018789521375

Typical female 2nd–4th finger length (24D) ratios in male-to-female transsexuals—possible implications for prenatal androgen exposure http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...06453005001770

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Prenatal Exposure to Anticonvulsants and Psychosexual Development
https://link.springer.com/article/10...:1018789521375

Typical female 2nd–4th finger length (24D) ratios in male-to-female transsexuals—possible implications for prenatal androgen exposure http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...06453005001770

Stuff like this really needs to be looked into more. I am more than willing to accept that there are biological reasons for transsexual people being transsexual. None of this is anything to do with the new breed of 'transgender' though. As transsexuals have nothing in common with 'transgender'. Transsexuals are at odds with their sexed bodies, and will take steps to 'change' this. Transgenders are the ones yelling about how the penis is a female organ and other rubbish like that. Its trangenders who are causing the problems right now, and making life harder for actual transsexual people.

Just read this piece by Miranda Yardley which explains a lot of my views on this topic pretty well. Before denouncing her as a terf or 'transphobic'...Miranda is actually a transsexual...and a lot of transsexual people agree with what she says.

http://mirandayardley.com/en/finding...gender-rights/

Miranda was also present in the speakers corner incident (the 60 year old being attacked by transactivists) and the activists were telling her she was transphobic too. They did not like it when she told them transmysoginy was a made up word Idiots.

[Vicky.]

One of these guys who hit the 60 year old woman is up in court next week.

And look at what the transactivists are planning for ****s sake.. (sorry it won't let me copy the images to post the actual images but they are in the OP of this)

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_...next-week?pg=1

I can see a bunch of people turning up at Westminster Court in balaclavas, facemasks and and unidentifiable clothing going down really really well with security

And asking for a human shield as they are scared of women.

And making out 'terfs' are some kind of planned group or something too. When they are infact just..people who believe in biology and are concerned for womens rights.

I do wonder if these nutjobs actually believe this crap that they say. They have said it so often that the lies start to become truths (inside their heads) maybe.

It is the responsibility of cis allies to let these TERFs know in person, on the day, that the violence they are attempting to perpetrate against one of our trans sisters is not done in our name

This is ridiculous too. Like..the only violence has been FROM transactivists to women. There has never been a case of a feminist attacking a transperson. Infact, when transpeople do get attacked, its almost exclusively by men, or other transpeople.

I can honestly just imagine this. A group of male people in balaclavas screaming that men who punch 60 year old women unprovoked (its the guy who ran from nowhere and punched her thats being prosecuted) should not receive punishment for said actions. And also that men should go to womens prisons. I am sure this will go down well with the general public, if they are not arrested before this for being terrorists or something.

[Oliver_W]

I read on Magdelen Berns' twitter feed that there have been more transwomen murderers than victims of murder. I never chased it up so I don't know how true it is, but there's at least a blog with sources to back it up..

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

I read on Magdelen Berns' twitter feed that there have been more transwomen murderers than victims of murder. I never chased it up so I don't know how true it is, but there's at least a blog with sources to back it up..

Yes, there are more transwomen murderers (in this country) than there are transwomen who have been murdered.

When transactivists spout about how transwomen are murdered all the time, most of the murders are in Brazil, and most of the people murdered were prostitutes also. And we all know how dangerous that job is. Not that that makes people getting murdered any less horrific mind, but these are sad facts of life.

Its quite disingenuous to use doctored statistics in the way the activists do. It puts fear into transpeople too, thinking there is a huge risk of them getting murdered when its simply not true.

[Oliver_W]

Again it's not something I've looked into, but I'm skeptical about the recent study saying that 1/8 transwomen are attacked at their place of work - is that sex work? Obviously sex workers deserve to go unattacked, but it'd be foolish to include it in a study to show how society as a whole hates traps.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Again it's not something I've looked into, but I'm skeptical about the recent study saying that 1/8 transwomen are attacked at their place of work - is that sex work? Obviously sex workers deserve to go unattacked, but it'd be foolish to include it in a study to show how society as a whole hates traps.

No idea, I have not heard of that one. Will have a look tomorrow if I get time to fill my head full of even more transactivists propaganda But I would think that it would be sex work..no other job would have such high assault rate, no matter what the person doing it looked like.

It may be that prostitution is simply included in the stats and Brazil is counted, or only transpeople in Brazil were included fullstop. There are not that many trans people and a lot of them are into sex work (apparently the 'community' pressures some into it, I watched a video Blair White did that was heartbreaking tbh) so if sex work is included I can see how the rates are so high. It may well have been another 'self selecting' study like stonewalls recent one. Which claimed something like 50% of trans people are disabled :/

Women in prostitution

Women involved in prostitution had a mortality rate 12 times the normal rate for women in the same age group. 68% of street workers had experienced physical assault.

http://www.toynbeehall.org.uk/data/f...ostitution.pdf

62% reported having been raped in prostitution. 73% reported having experienced physical assault in prostitution. 72% were currently or formerly homeless. 92% stated that they wanted to escape prostitution immediately.

http://www.rapeis.org/activism/prost...tionfacts.html


---

So yeah, could definitely distort the stats

[user104658]

I keep seeing this thread title, and thinking it sounds like a new version of Robot Wars, and then thinking I'd totally watch it. Craig Charles has to commentate though. "Oh she's been flipped over! But it's OK she has a sri-mech!"

[Oliver_W]

Unless verbal abuse is also included as assault, I could certainly see a customer being like "**** you trannny" or something if they were annoyed, or just plain rude

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Oliver_W

Unless verbal abuse is also included as assault, I could certainly see a customer being like "**** you trannny" or something if they were annoyed, or just plain rude

Well quite possibly, given apparently 'misgendering' is 'literal violence'

I would have thought that T word was censored on here..

[jaxie]

Interesting posts Oliver and Vicky. I know that Brillo says this a lot and I wonder if she's right when she says we're too PC sometimes nowadays. I wonder isn't going too far the wrong way sometimes so that acceptance of one thing starts to erode the rights of something else.

Like when you mention Lesbians being called names for not wanting to be with trans people. A lesbian is a gay woman, she desires other women. Of course she wouldn't fancy someone who often to the rest of the world looks like a bloke dressed as a woman and who has a penis. You can't just change what you are and who you want to suit someone else's agenda. People don't choose their sexual orientation it's part of them and to claim otherwise is a step backwards and a lot more 'homophobic' than the idea they don't fancy someone who is gender choosing.

[Jamie89]

I think the prostitution stats should be included. If they weren't then it wouldn't be an accurate representation of what trans people face. If for a lot of them, that it is their 'place of work', then why should their experiences be discounted, surely that would be a distortion of what is happening? I worked with a transwoman years ago, she was pre-op and didn't 'pass' (hate saying that but just to make the point), and she had the most horrendous time. She'd be out in the smoking shelter and other workers would stand right in front of her saying the most horrible things, people would walk past her and snigger at her and whisper to each other, it really wasn't subtle at all and she ended up quitting after a couple of weeks. It's no wonder that so many people like that in ordinary working situations can't handle the kind of treatment they sometimes get, trans people are often pushed out of 'ordinary' society and those people's experiences should be counted. They're still part of society, as are the people they come into contact with.

[Oliver_W]

If we just say "transwomen face high workplace violence", it's an incomplete thought.

It's like saying "men have the highest workplace fatalities", or "women and men earn different amounts." To add context, we include because they work more dangerous jobs and because they have different work habits respectively.

Sex workers in general face a lot of abuse, so to include it in stats about transpeople without clarifying makes it look like they face abuse in everyday jobs.

[waterhog]

with all due respect - I got my own wars = poetry wars and the winner is not me

[Vicky.]

The 1 in 8 figure came from the same self selecting stonewall survey that said that 51% of transpeople are disabled. It should really be taken with a pinch of salt. Just been reading up on it and discovered its something I have already been talking about elsewhere..though we were more concerned about the 51% of self identified trans people that are apparently disabled, as thats WAY above average.

Comes from here

https://www.stonewall.org.uk/lgbt-britain-trans-report

I find it extremely strange how stonewall decided this 1 in 8 stat was important, but totally ignored the very high number of trans people who identify as disabled. Which to me would be much more important and something that really should be investigated.