[Ashley.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

But yeah, I mean women especially and to a point men have been fighting against these stereotypes for years, it feels like we're going backwards again

Yeah. We've reverted back to the same strict male/female rules we spent most of the 20th century trying to eliminate... except now you can actually change your gender if you're not suited to it. Of course I'm not against the whole idea of transitioning as I know there are people who would genuinely benefit from it, but we shouldn't be forcing it on children at such a young age and raising them so ambiguously. It's harmful. You hear all sorts of stories about people who have transitioned and end up being so much more unhappy than before.

[Crimson Dynamo]

too much time and too much money makes jack a dull girl

[bots]

"look, i'm really progressive, ain't I wonderful" is what this shouts out to me.

[Crimson Dynamo]

If you were a boy and you did Home EC (none did) you would have been beaten up and called a gay when i was at school.

Thankfully we all have moved on and boys can do home EC and get stabbed on the way home with their Apple Crumble. The stabbing can be filmed and put on youtube/twitter where children all around the world can call him a gay and rejoice in his attack via the comments.

[Niamh.]

Basically Withano, what I'm asking is why can't you be a girl or boy and figure out what you like? Why do you have to be no gender until you do? It's a sexist idea and a gender stereotype enforcing one

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Basically Withano, what I'm asking is why can't you be a girl or boy and figure out what you like? Why do you have to be no gender until you do? It's a sexist idea and a gender stereotype enforcing one

Gender is something you think and feel, probably shouldnt be something the parents decide based on their childs fashion sense... should probably be something the child decides what they begin to associate themselves with an identity.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

Gender is something you think and feel, probably shouldnt be something the parents decide based on their childs fashion sense... should probably be something the child decides what they begin to associate themselves with an identity.

Well here's where our opinions will veer off, I just can't see how sex and gender are different

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well here's where our opinions will veer off, I just can't see how sex and gender are different

Sex is between your legs, gender is in your head.

Usually people know they are the same gender and sex, sometimes people know they have a different gender and sex, sometimes people dont feel strongly either way.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

Sex is between your legs, gender is in your head.

Usually people know they are the same gender and sex, sometimes people know they have a different gender and sex, sometimes people dont feel strongly either way.

Alright well here is where we end up back around in circles I think.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well here's where our opinions will veer off, I just can't see how sex and gender are different

They are different though by necessity or the term "gender" wouldn't even exist. I think there's a common misconception that gender "used to mean" the same thing as sex / the terms were interchangeable, and that "over time gender has come to mean" something different.

However that isn't the case and the term "gender" was created specifically to differentiate what would traditionally be considered male / female behavioural characteristics, from biological sex. Gender refers to behaviours, and ONLY behaviours, it (by definition) has nothing to do with biology.

In other words... if "sex" and "gender" were the same thing, then the term "gender" wouldn't NEED to exist at all.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

They are different though by necessity or the term "gender" wouldn't even exist. I think there's a common misconception that gender "used to mean" the same thing as sex / the terms were interchangeable, and that "over time gender has come to mean" something different.

However that isn't the case and the term "gender" was created specifically to differentiate what would traditionally be considered male / female behavioural characteristics, from biological sex. Gender refers to behaviours, and ONLY behaviours, it (by definition) has nothing to do with biology.

In other words... if "sex" and "gender" were the same thing, then the term "gender" wouldn't NEED to exist at all.

So basically gender is stereotypes.........

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

So basically gender is stereotypes.........

Usually transgenders will typically perform better at some sterotypical tasks because of the way their brain is wired. There are differences between male and female brains. A female brain is built very similarly to an transwomans brain, and they will often share some skills that are typically harder for men and transmen.

So yes in a way? Some stereotypes exist for a reason. That probably doesnt have much to do with kids’ toys and coloured tshirts though.

[Niamh.]

@TS & Withano - That just confirms for me though that raising genderless children is counter active to breaking stereotypes and will end up reinforcing gender roles and limiting girls and boys. And a massive backwards step

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

@TS & Withano - That just confirms for me though that raising genderless children is counter active to breaking stereotypes and will end up reinforcing gender roles and limiting girls and boys. And a massive backwards step

Brain differences exist between men and women so avoiding picking out a pink dress for your 3 year old daughter is a massive backstep?

I don’t understand your reasoning at all.

Gender will always exist. Postponing the idea of gender until the child can understand gender wont change that. It’s either that or force gender on a child.

What actually is your solution lol. You seem to be against both.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

Brain differences exist between men and women so avoiding picking out a pink dress for your 3 year old daughter is a massive backstep?

I don’t understand your reasoning at all.

Gender will always exist. Postponing the idea of gender until the child can understand gender wont change that. It’s either that or force gender on a child.

What actually is your solution lol. You seem to be against both.

Can we please talk about this without the condescension because I'm really not in the mood today.

"Brain differences exist between men and women so avoiding picking out a pink dress for your 3 year old daughter is a massive backstep?"

When did I say that? I said specifically saying some things like pink dresses are for girls so lets wait a while to see if you go for the pink dress to see if you're a girl or not is a sexist idea and a backwards step.

You seem to be against both.

Against both what? you've lost me now

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Can we please talk about this without the condescension because I'm really not in the mood today.

"Brain differences exist between men and women so avoiding picking out a pink dress for your 3 year old daughter is a massive backstep?"

When did I say that? I said specifically saying some things like pink dresses are for girls so lets wait a while to see if you go for the pink dress to see if you're a girl or not is a sexist idea and a backwards step.

You seem to be against both.

Against both what? you've lost me now

Against both a genderless upbringing, and a gender role upbringing. Whats the solution?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

Against both a genderless upbringing, and a gender role upbringing. Whats the solution?

I'm for raising girls and boys to decide what they like for themselves. Things like colours, clothes, school subjects etc should not be considered as one genders preferences or another or one sexes preference for that matter. They should be just personal tastes, down to the individual. What I'm saying is linking these things to gender at all is counter productive and sexist. I've been saying this all the way through the thread, I'm not sure what you're confused about?

[Cherie]

On a practical note what would you dress an 14 month old toddler in if they showed both an interest in Thomas the Tank Engine and Barbie In my experience todders will play with most things, say for argument sake they were invited to a birthday party what would you dress them in? @TS and Withano

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Cherie

On a practical note what would you dress an 14 month old toddler in if they showed both an interest in Thomas the Tank Engine and Barbie In my experience todders will play with most things, say for argument sake they were invited to a birthday party what would you dress them in? @TS and Withano

Bringing this forward on the page as I am really interested in the responses if I get any that is ..

[Twosugars]

Originally Posted by Cherie

[/B]

Bringing this forward on the page as I am really interested in the responses if I get any that is ..

want to know too, but let every parent here answer it, not just TS and Whitano

[Crimson Dynamo]

I will say that, right now, she is incredibly feminine in her energy, her sounds and her way. It’s very different from the boys," she said.


says it all really

[Alf]

If you allowed a child to eat what they want, they wouldn't eat fruit and veg. They need parental guidence.

Until the little brats can provide for themselves, then they've no right to call the shots.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Alf

If you allowed a child to eat what they want, they wouldn't eat fruit and veg. They need parental guidence.

Until the little brats can provide for themselves, then they've no right to call the shots.

Making sure your baby is eating healthily is the same as making sure they are dressed up in right clothes according to their gender?

I oppose the whole 'genderless' upbringing (it's not a big deal to let kids play with whatever toys they want and like what they like and people need to stop making out that it is) but that's a completely silly comparison to make.

[Ashley.]

Originally Posted by Alf

If you allowed a child to eat what they want, they wouldn't eat fruit and veg. They need parental guidence.

Until the little brats can provide for themselves, then they've no right to call the shots.

That's doesn't really compare Alf. Unless you're saying that you'd feed your child only fruit and veg until they're old enough to buy their own food... in which case that would be silly.

Like Dezzy said, making sure a child is happy and healthy is unrelated to giving them a bloody toy to play with.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Alf

If you allowed a child to eat what they want, they wouldn't eat fruit and veg. They need parental guidence.

Until the little brats can provide for themselves, then they've no right to call the shots.

Parents deciding what food a child should eat is very different to telling a child that they can't play with a toy that they like.