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Locke. · 25-03-2011, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happyland

I'm bored. I don't really like football. I really have no interest in Celtic or Rangers.. I quite fancy Neil Lennon but that's about it!

I'm going to start a thread about shopping, make up and shagging

Lee. · 25-03-2011, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

-has entered the thread too late to pooh-pooh Niamh's U2 sales statistics and so begins prodding my belly button-

Does your bely button hurt when you prod it?

*shudders* Pet hate

In the Drunk Tank · 25-03-2011, 09:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu

That's faulty logic I would say. I can't speak for Wales because I don't know their history, but the majority of Scottish and Irish people resented England and being a part of the British empire back in the day. Why would they be considered part of Englands ills just because that's what it said on paper? England created the British empire. It was Englands empire. Are you telling me Ireland - being that it was a part of Britain - had the biggest empire in the world? Not a chance. Are you telling me they should be part of the blame for the atrocities of the British empire even though they fell to those atrocities themselves? That if England beats you you then get considered part of the problem and should shoulder some of the blame?

It's like saying the Polish were part of the grave threat the axis posed in World War II because Germany overran the place.

There might have been a greater enthusiasm for Imperialism in England but that doesnt just rid the other constituent countries of any responisiblity, and engaging in finger pointing and pinning the blame fully on England seems a bit petty to me. There were still the same Scottish regiments in the Army fighting for the Empire and furthering Imperialism. I'm not saying it was Ireland's Empire, not at all, but it was Britain's and Shasown made an interesting post recently detailing the importance of Irish forces in the British Army during the Colonial days. To say that "we didnt do it" and "it was England" doesnt really stand up in my eyes, and you cant really fully rid yourself (that's a general you btw, not directed at you personally) of any responsibility, even if it was mainly driven by England. There were several Scottish Prime Ministers during this time after all, couple of Welshman as well

Shaun · 25-03-2011, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by happyland

Does your bely button hurt when you prod it?

*shudders* Pet hate

Can't say it does

and it's alright Niamh, at least you didn't mention The Nolans. But you do have the Pogues, Van Morrison and the Cranberries

...and Daniel O'Donnell

Stu · 25-03-2011, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN

There might have been a greater enthusiasm for Imperialism in England but that doesnt just rid the other constituent countries of any responisiblity, and engaging in finger pointing and pinning the blame fully on England seems a bit petty to me. There were still the same Scottish regiments in the Army fighting for the Empire and furthering Imperialism. I'm not saying it was Ireland's Empire, not at all, but it was Britain's and Shasown made an interesting post recently detailing the importance of Irish forces in the British Army during the Colonial days. To say that "we didnt do it" and "it was England" doesnt really stand up in my eyes, and you cant really fully rid yourself of any responsibility, even if it was mainly driven by England. There were several Scottish Prime Ministers during this time after all, couple of Welshman as well

A tiny minority of Irishmen fought for England in the colonial days. Many of them were treated as lepers by the Irish for treason and betrayal. A sizeable number of Irishmen fought in the first World War but then that was on another scale altogether. To say Ireland should shoulder some responsibility for the British Empire's atrocities I feel is both ignorant and insulting. By becoming victim to these atrocities we became unwitting participants in the British Empire ... to then have to shoulder some of the responsibility?

Nah. Not buying it. Not in this lifetime, sorry.

Lee. · 25-03-2011, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

Can't say it does

-books doctor appointment-

ChristmasNeeve · 25-03-2011, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shaun

Can't say it does

and it's alright Niamh, at least you didn't mention The Nolans. But you do have the Pogues, Van Morrison and the Cranberries

...and Daniel O'Donnell

You know, I think the Nolans are bigger in Britain than in Ireland, we were watching Family fortunes last week, and the question was name an Irish band and the Nolans were up there, Gav was like, who the ****** are they? I had heard of them but only from british programmes and I couldn't name one of their songs!

Stu · 25-03-2011, 09:52 PM

Father Ted is the best thing to come out of this country. And RTE were too stupid to buy it.

ChristmasNeeve · 25-03-2011, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu

Father Ted is the best thing to come out of this country. And RTE were too stupid to buy it.

this is the the truth

In the Drunk Tank · 25-03-2011, 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu

A tiny minority of Irishmen fought for England in the colonial days. Many of them were treated as lepers by the Irish for treason and betrayal. A sizeable number of Irishmen fought in the first World War but then that was on another scale altogether. To say Ireland should shoulder some responsibility for the British Empire's atrocities I feel is both ignorant and insulting. By becoming victim to these atrocities we became unwitting participants in the British Empire ... to then have to shoulder some of the responsibility?

Nah. Not buying it. Not in this lifetime, sorry.

You've kind of taken me away from the main point of my argument, I can kind of understand Ireland's case and was reluctant to include them in my first post but I dont think you can say the same for Scotland. Scots were hardly hostile to Britain's actions, the Scramble for Africa encouraged a wave of Popular Imperialism in Scotland just as much as it did in England and there were several prominent Scottish missionaries which encouraged expansion, most notably David Livingstone. And when this was, at times, done by Scottish Prime Ministers with the full support of plenty of Scottish Regiments then nah, you're not blameless and above being held responsible.

Ireland I'll give you, Scotland I wont.

Stu · 25-03-2011, 10:02 PM

Fair dues. I need to brush up on my Scottish history.

ChristmasNeeve · 25-03-2011, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTVN

You've kind of taken me away from the main point of my argument, I can kind of understand Ireland's case and was reluctant to include them in my first post but I dont think you can say the same for Scotland. Scots were hardly hostile to Britain's actions, the Scramble for Africa encouraged a wave of Popular Imperialism in Scotland just as much as it did in England and there were several prominent Scottish missionaries which encouraged expansion, most notably David Livingstone. And when this was, at times, done by Scottish Prime Ministers with the full support of plenty of Scottish Regiments then nah, you're not blameless and above being held responsible.

Ireland I'll give you, Scotland I wont.

Spoiler:

In the Drunk Tank · 25-03-2011, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stu

Fair dues. I need to brush up on my Scottish history.

I'm not really an expert at all but I've looked at British Imperialism in the 19th century in quite a bit of detail, I'm not sure about Scottish involvement in the earlier days of Colonialism though tbh