[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

Why don't we settle this with a good old fashioned scrap?

We'd batter you!

Settle what? Actually, you've just shown how alot of people view feminism, like it's some sort of battle for top spot.....instead of just wanting equality. This is the type of attitude that women face everyday but are told we're imagining it, we are equal now get back in your box and shut up

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Settle what? Actually, you've just shown how alot of people view feminism, like it's some sort of battle for top spot.....instead of just wanting equality. This is the type of attitude that women face everyday but are told we're imagining it, we are equal now get back in your box and shut up

Put em up, I'll take you with one arm behind my back.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

Put em up, I'll take you with one arm behind my back.

[Alf]

Maybe the men haters choose the wrong men in life? You always see women judging men on looks alone, and hear many of them say, "I like a bad boy" And women seem creeped out by shy quiet boys.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

Maybe the men haters choose the wrong men in life? You always see women judging men on looks alone, and hear many of them say, "I like a bad boy" And women seem creeped out by shy quiet boys.

again, displaying the very very common attitude that people (mostly men but not all men thankfully) have of women who point out inequality between the sexes. I am a feminist and I have fantastic men in my life tyvm, 3 brothers, a husband and a son

Thanks Alf though for the demonstrations, I'm waiting for example number 3 : The feminazis are fat ugly lesbians who are just mad cos no one fancies them

[Alf]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

again, displaying the very very common attitude that people (mostly men but not all men thankfully) have of women who point out inequality between the sexes. I am a feminist and I have fantastic men in my life tyvm, 3 brothers, a husband and a son

Thanks Alf though for the demonstrations, I'm waiting for example number 3 : The feminazis are fat ugly lesbians who are just mad cos no one fancies them

You see, you don't need me to tell you that, you know it yourself.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

again, displaying the very very common attitude that people (mostly men but not all men thankfully) have of women who point out inequality between the sexes. I am a feminist and I have fantastic men in my life tyvm, 3 brothers, a husband and a son

Thanks Alf though for the demonstrations, I'm waiting for example number 3 : The feminazis are fat ugly lesbians who are just mad cos no one fancies them

We already had this a few days back

Originally Posted by Alf

Because fat ugly feminist are jealous of them.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/darts/42841620

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Alf

You see, you don't need me to tell you that, you know it yourself.

Game, set and match Alf

Originally Posted by Vicky.

We already had this a few days back

Ha, must be psychic

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Alf

Maybe the men haters choose the wrong men in life? You always see women judging men on looks alone, and hear many of them say, "I like a bad boy" And women seem creeped out by shy quiet boys.

Alf, men have always been the worst for judging potential partners on looks - that is far more a male trait than a female one. I do agree on the bad boy thing though - some women are their own worst enemy.

[Tom4784]

Alf, your posts in this thread are the ultimate proof of how fragile a man's sense of masculinity is and how easily it's threatened.

[Vicky.]

Thing is, which area do men receive poorer treatment than women? I know the family courts are brought up a lot but thats not based on sex, it goes on who does the majority of childcare...which just usually happens to be the woman in most cases...so yes, women get custody in most cases. Like, if me and my husband divorced tomorrow, he would 'get the kids' because he gets up with them each morning, he takes them to school, he does most of the childcare.

Now if we were a more 'traditional' (read old fashioned ) family where I did the childcare and he worked, then I would probably 'get them' and would also generally get child support awarded (which is for the kids, not the parent)

Obviously if there has been abuse or something then who does the bulk of the childcare is disregarded though so that the kids are safe. But our family courts (not sure about in other countries, am talking about the UK) are definitely not this 'award custody to the female' type thing. Its about disrupting the childrens lives the least.


I am all for fighting for things where men are actually genuinely disadvantaged. Just it seems, I cannot actually think of one of these areas. I don't think anyone should be treat more or less favourably because of their sex. Though there are some areas of life where sex matters (things like sports, prisons...anywhere where biology is important)

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Thing is, which area do men receive poorer treatment than women? I know the family courts are brought up a lot but thats not based on sex, it goes on who does the majority of childcare...which just usually happens to be the woman in most cases...so yes, women get custody in most cases. Like, if me and my husband divorced tomorrow, he would 'get the kids' because he gets up with them each morning, he takes them to school, he does most of the childcare.

Now if we were a more 'traditional' (read old fashioned ) family where I did the childcare and he worked, then I would probably 'get them' and would also generally get child support awarded (which is for the kids, not the parent)

Obviously if there has been abuse or something then who does the bulk of the childcare is disregarded though so that the kids are safe. But our family courts (not sure about in other countries, am talking about the UK) are definitely not this 'award custody to the female' type thing. Its about disrupting the childrens lives the least.


I am all for fighting for things where men are actually genuinely disadvantaged. Just it seems, I cannot actually think of one of these areas. I don't think anyone should be treat more or less favourably because of their sex. Though there are some areas of life where sex matters (things like sports, prisons...anywhere where biology is important)

I don't mean in terms of laws I just mean in general life that if there is an instance of it then I'd consider it to fall under the same thing of gender inequality. I don't think I've ever been discriminated against for being a man so it's hard to give examples lol, in fact I'd say I've probably benefited from sexism to a degree as a lot of men probably have at some point or another, but I'm speaking more generally that sometimes there are instances of it, I suppose one example could be that some people don't take male victims of domestic abuse seriously. Or if you have an employer that prefers female employees then of course it's an area where women are more disadvantaged broadly speaking, but if there is an instance of it happening the other way around then I'd consider it to still be an individual example of sexism, and I'm just saying that when it happens it should be considered part of the same problem, rather than being dismissed for being less frequent. Like it's not one side vs the other, if feminism is about equality then theoretically we should treat all issues that may arise from gender inequality the same.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

I don't mean in terms of laws I just mean in general life that if there is an instance of it then I'd consider it to fall under the same thing of gender inequality. I don't think I've ever been discriminated against for being a man so it's hard to give examples lol, in fact I'd say I've probably benefited from sexism to a degree as a lot of men probably have at some point or another, but I'm speaking more generally that sometimes there are instances of it, I suppose one example could be that some people don't take male victims of domestic abuse seriously. Or if you have an employer that prefers female employees then of course it's an area where women are more disadvantaged broadly speaking, but if there is an instance of it happening the other way around then I'd consider it to still be an individual example of sexism, and I'm just saying that when it happens it should be considered part of the same problem, rather than being dismissed for being less frequent. Like it's not one side vs the other, if feminism is about equality then theoretically we should treat all issues that may arise from gender inequality the same.

Ah right yeah I get you. The male victims of DV thing is definitely a huge issue actually. Male victims of sexual assault also...mind any victim of sexual assault seems to be rubbished and disbelieved or the very disgusting 'well at least you were not raped, could have been worse'

Anecdotally among friends (not reporting and official treatment, just friends supporting friends), male victims of DV seem to elicit more sympathy and such. Where female ones get the whole 'what did you do to provoke him' kind of treatment. I do understand that this is not necessarily going to be true across the board though. And the social experiment videos that do the rounds every now and again show definitely sex bias against men. Like, the woman can kick the **** out of a bloke in public and people ignore it, but a man raises his voice and people intervene.

[Vicky.]

I used to be one of those who said reverse racism was a thing and such. Its quite embarrassing looking back. I would say that black people were just as racist as white, if not more. I never really understood power imbalances and class analysis and such until recently.

I was also one of those who would berate the black lives matter movement with the 'surely ALL lives matter' rubbish This was not even too long ago. I believe at one stage I also asked why there was not straight pride too.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I used to be one of those who said reverse racism was a thing and such. Its quite embarrassing looking back. I would say that black people were just as racist as white, if not more. I never really understood power imbalances and class analysis and such until recently.

I was also one of those who would berate the black lives matter movement with the 'surely ALL lives matter' rubbish This was not even too long ago. I believe at one stage I also asked why there was not straight pride too.

And apparently you now don't know the difference between personal and institutional -isms or that the impossibility of most institutional -isms doesn't negate personal -isms in any way, shape or form. Have fun with that.

[Crimson Dynamo]

not that stale pale white male TS using his white privilege to stink out da feminist thread?

[Vicky.]

I will, thanks

Obviously class analysis is pretty useless when applied to singular people as its...class analysis and not about individual people inside that class. I think we have gone over this before actually..and I think it turned out you disagree with class analysis fullstop?

[Redway]

My heart bleeds for all the straight white men who face daily discrimination, it really does.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Redway

My heart bleeds for all the straight white men who face daily discrimination, it really does.

still, at least you are not bitter

[Redway]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

still, at least you are not bitter

Look at this guy.

[Underscore]

Originally Posted by Redway

Look at this guy.

You come to expect it off people like him on here - just ignore.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Redway

My heart bleeds for all the straight white men who face daily discrimination, it really does.

I feel like I'm going to regret continuing to respond, but I feel like I have to point out that you're not doing anyone any favours with this? You're eroding the points of those you probably consider yourself to be on the side of, and you're not effectively arguing against anyone who you probably consider yourself to be "against".

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I feel like I'm going to regret continuing to respond, but I feel like I have to point out that you're not doing anyone any favours with this? You're eroding the points of those you probably consider yourself to be on the side of, and you're not effectively arguing against anyone who you probably consider yourself to be "against".

The only people I’m against are people who think they can 100% understand things they’ll never experience and chuck around reverse labels whenever they’re called out on it.

Key’s In the word experience. The idea that white men experience sexism on a meaningful scale’s laughable. It might exist according to the dictionary but in reality it’s not even close to being the same thing and you know it. Just like casual black-on-white racism wouldn’t be taken as seriously because it’s nowhere near close to being in the same league.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Redway

The only people I’m against are people who think they can 100% understand things they’ll never experience and chuck around reverse labels whenever they’re called out on it.

Key’s In the word experience. The idea that white men experience sexism on a meaningful scale’s laughable. It might exist according to the dictionary but in reality it’s not even close to being the same thing and you know it. Just like casual black-on-white racism wouldn’t be taken as seriously because it’s nowhere near close to being in the same league.

Who is claiming to 100% understand anything? And why does not having 100% understanding of an issue exclude anyone from engaging in a discussion? And what is the point of a group of people with 100% understanding of an issue discussing that issue with each other?

Also, who has claimed that its in the same league and why does that matter when discussing acceptability? Flicking someone's nose isn't in the same league as slapping someone in the face, which is a million miles from stabbing someone in the stomach. Does that mean it's OK to go up and flick someone on the nose, or slap them in the face, "because you didn't stab them in the stomach"? Is it wrong for them to be annoyed about it "because they'll never know what it's like to be stabbed"?

[Northern Monkey]

I pretty much agree with everything Toy Soldier has very succinctly wrote.

My opinion is that if feminists want more men (and women also) to get board then drop the term ‘feminism’ as it is absolutely 100% anti equality and outdated and make it more inclusive for everyone.Simple ‘equality’ or even ‘equalism’ would help things massively.
TS has already said this but when it’s set up as one team against another and framed as a battle then it’s doomed to failure as it becomes a war in which neither side backs down.
Feminism is divisive and doesn’t work in modern times where equality is supposed to be the thing.
Society is supposed to be trying to get away from division now.