[Josy]

if I see any more vile personal comments its immediate bans either stick to the topic within the rules or dont post in the thread

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I havent defended his handling nor did I criticise other leaders who have similarly struggled to contain the pandemic. I'm not the one wishing death on people for it. My point was not trying to make it right vs left but the contrary (that there's not much correlation between political leanings and success against the virus), was just interested to see who made your list of people who's Covid policy meant they deserved death.

You definitely are making it a Right vs Left issue since you chose to use a left wing example as a 'gotcha' which completely flopped since I don't care which side someone falls on if they are dangerously incompetent, can you say the same?

If we were talking about Putin, or Kim Jong Un, or any other world leader who has caused suffering on a mass scale, would you be making out that people were evil for not caring if they lived or died? I think not.

As I said before, in majority of the post you chose to ignore because it deflated your argument completely that it's as much local government's fault as federal, The large number of deaths in the US is purely down to Trump's leadership downplaying the virus and turning it into a political weapon against the left. So many people are convinced it's not real or not a problem because of him and, as I said before, that's proven by looking at red states and states in which Trump Allies are in charge of, which tend to be the worst hit by the virus. Brazil is also high in Covid deaths and that's no doubt down to Bolsonero being similarly dismissive of Covid like Trump is. It's common sense really, if you have a leader that's spreading misinformation and is downplaying the virus, the country they run will suffer for it.

You're trying to make me out to be some vicious evil person for not caring about someone whose incompetence has caused so much loss for hundreds of thousands of families. My sympathy goes to them, not the monster that enabled such widespread death.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You definitely are making it a Right vs Left issue since you chose to use a left wing example as a 'gotcha' which completely flopped since I don't care which side someone falls on if they are dangerously incompetent, can you say the same?

If we were talking about Putin, or Kim Jong Un, or any other world leader who has caused suffering on a mass scale, would you be making out that people were evil for not caring if they lived or died? I think not.

As I said before, in majority of the post you chose to ignore because it deflated your argument completely that it's as much local government's fault as federal, The large number of deaths in the US is purely down to Trump's leadership downplaying the virus and turning it into a political weapon against the left. So many people are convinced it's not real or not a problem because of him and, as I said before, that's proven by looking at red states and states in which Trump Allies are in charge of, which tend to be the worst hit by the virus. Brazil is also high in Covid deaths and that's no doubt down to Bolsonero being similarly dismissive of Covid like Trump is. It's common sense really, if you have a leader that's spreading misinformation and is downplaying the virus, the country they run will suffer for it.

You're trying to make me out to be some vicious evil person for not caring about someone whose incompetence has caused so much loss for hundreds of thousands of families. My sympathy goes to them, not the monster that enabled such widespread death.

Again I'm not the one accusing leaders of being 'monsters', 'dangerously incompetent' and having 'enabled widespread death' so I don't need to say the same - I haven't used that language about anyone because I think it's disproportionate and irresponsible

There's two issues here - one is how well/badly Trump has handled the pandemic; the second is whether he deserves to die for it. I am solely arguing on the second one: that he does not deserve to die.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Again I'm not the one accusing leaders of being 'monsters', 'dangerously incompetent' and having 'enabled widespread death' so I don't need to say the same - I haven't used that language about anyone because I think it's disproportionate and irresponsible

There's two issues here - one is how well/badly Trump has handled the pandemic; the second is whether he deserves to die for it. I am solely arguing on the second one: that he does not deserve to die.

I don't think he "deserves" to die but he's in his mid 70's, a large catalyst in a historic rift in American society, a white supremacist and an alleged (in my opinion probable) sex offender possibly including minors.

So while I'm not on board with "wishing" death on people, if Baby Jesus came down and said "Guys, dad says someone has to die or he's gonna do rapture" ... I'm just saying ... there are worse picks.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Again I'm not the one accusing leaders of being 'monsters', 'dangerously incompetent' and having 'enabled widespread death' so I don't need to say the same - I haven't used that language about anyone because I think it's disproportionate and irresponsible

There's two issues here - one is how well/badly Trump has handled the pandemic; the second is whether he deserves to die for it. I am solely arguing on the second one: that he does not deserve to die.

I'm not accusing him of those things, he is those things. He is dangerously incompetent, he has enabled widespread death. If it looks like a duck and sounds like a duck, it's a duck. It's not dangerous or irresponsible to hold a leader accountable for his actions, and his actions have had grave irreversible consequences for so many people that have lost loved ones.

To me, he is no different to Kim Jong Un, or Putin or any other monster in a position of power and I doubt you would ever show those leaders the same consideration you're showing Trump now. I don't pretend to feel sorry for cruel people when karma comes a-knocking. If he dies, it'll be no one's fault but his own and I'll be glad that the world would be rid of him.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Again I'm not the one accusing leaders of being 'monsters', 'dangerously incompetent' and having 'enabled widespread death' so I don't need to say the same - I haven't used that language about anyone because I think it's disproportionate and irresponsible

There's two issues here - one is how well/badly Trump has handled the pandemic; the second is whether he deserves to die for it. I am solely arguing on the second one: that he does not deserve to die.

I have called our PM and in fact his best whole Cabinet dangerously incompetent and in my view, along with many other families, his lack of provision and action did enable the deaths of elderly, who were among the most vulnerable anyway, in Care homes.

The incompetence of not preparing proper testing and supplies of adequate protection equipment being largely the cause of those deaths.

Trump has dismissed and talked utter dangerous nonsense on this virus.
Plus thrown caution to the wind for himself and to others too.
At his rallies.

However, I'll repeat, I wished Johnson a good recovery when he had it, despite my total contempt for the man as a leader.
In fact I don't think he'd fully over it yet.

So much for those who say it's just a flu.

Earlier I said I hoped Trump will get over this too.
I never wish death on anyone.
I also stated clearly I'd never wish this virus on anyone.
I've lost people to it and know how cruel, hateful and destructive it is.

However, we have to judge all leaders, on competence, care and justice from what they do when they win power.
So I will restate I do consider both the leader of the USA and our PM as having been dangerously incompetent.
I do in part hold Johnson and his government responsible for the environment that lost so many deaths of those who needed protection in Care homes.
I'll stand by all that and never think it disproportionate and irresponsible.

This is a truly evil virus.
The destruction it leaves can be life changing fir life and that's even if you survive from a vulnerable grouping.
Something Trump has played down.

However again, as I did with our incompetent leader, I hope again for the USA incompetent on this pandemic leader.
A full recovery and as soon as possible.
Because this is a very destructive virus, which IF it really gets hold of you, is cruel and frightening as well as likely fatal too.

[bots]

there is more info coming out on trumps health. They are giving him anti body treatment and he is fatigued and he has a fever, so there is a level of concern

[bots]

breaking news, Trump is being transferred to hospital

[arista]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

breaking news, Trump is being transferred to hospital

Yes Walter Reed Hospital
he has a Fever

[arista]

[MTVN]

All feeling very deja vu from when Boris went in - 'precautionary measure', 'in good spirits' etc

Hope it doesn't get to the same stage

[bots]

Originally Posted by MTVN

All feeling very deja vu from when Boris went in - 'precautionary measure', 'in good spirits' etc

Hope it doesn't get to the same stage

yeah, i think its the same tone but speeded up ... if he has a fever he may already have had it for a week

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by MTVN

All feeling very deja vu from when Boris went in - 'precautionary measure', 'in good spirits' etc

Hope it doesn't get to the same stage

Nobody is taken into hospital if symptoms are mild

[arista]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Nobody is taken into hospital if symptoms are mild

Hang on they taking him there
as he trying some new Experimental Meds
that needs a Proper Hospital as back up.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by arista

Hang on they taking him there
as he trying some new Experimental Meds
that needs a Proper Hospital as back up.

Its been reported he has a mild cough and headache, and has gone to hospital on advice of his doctors

Experimental medicine would be pretty useless on someone with very mild symptoms like that

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Its been reported he has a mild cough and headache, and has gone to hospital on advice of his doctors

Experimental medicine would be pretty useless on someone with very mild symptoms like that

If that's all he has I agree with you they wouldn't get much knowledge from an experimental treatment.

I'd be more inclined to think because of his age it's a precautionary matter to have him in hospital hopefully.

Yes, Johnson went to Hospital later in his time with it but he is far younger than Trump.
So it makes sense to, with him in his 70s, to keep him under observation in hospital.

[AnnieK]

He's being treated with an experimental cocktail of drugs. I hope he does recover quickly and its precautionary. Still echo my earlier statement that he takes the advised precautions more seriously in future

[bots]

i think the fact that they are giving him an anti body injection that has only ever been given to 250 people, that there is a problem

[user104658]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

i think the fact that they are giving him an anti body injection that has only ever been given to 250 people, that there is a problem

Maybe because he's bad, maybe because he's stupid and powerful and has insisted on "all the best cutting edge stuff". With Trump it could honestly be either. I think he's proven himself to be naive enough about health to believe that taking every experimental treatment going is a good idea - and insisting on it would be pretty on-brand.

[UserSince2005]

my trumpy he needs to pull through. America would be nothing without him.
What a true hero.

[Amy Jade]

asif people are still arguing over if masks are helping to protect from covid.

They are. It is a scientific fact.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Amy Jade

asif people are still arguing over if masks are helping to protect from covid.

They are. It is a scientific fact.

Zips wholeheartedly agrees m'lady.

[arista]

[arista]

[arista]