[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Seriously? I mean, I've never lived there of course, but racial divisions in the USA seem far more prominent than here in the UK. Those figures I quoted up above were about the USA from here http://www.apa.org/pi/ses/resources/...sheet-erm.aspx and it really doesn't look to me like the US is some beacon of racial progressiveness

And the South. There's so much racism in the South, they even still have the Confederacy flag flying above the Louisiana State Courthouse

And racists are gonna be racists. My point is how much society gives you a chance. Even if someone has a business, and they are racist, they have to follow the law. So those racists had to hire some black people or they were fined!

Like I said, I am not saying there arent racists, just that people fought for their rights, and got at least a fighting chance.

[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Because there's no black ghettos in the US? Come on, the country's well known for racially segregated neighbourhoods in a lot of places. Personally I find statistics more reliable than anecdotal evidence which doesn't really offer a wide perspective

Of course there are black ghettos. But you cant just use the example of big city ghettos, you have to look a the whole country. I have family everywhere in the US, and I know that there is a lot more racial harmony!

And its not like I am american, I am not here talking up my country, I am telling you from what I have seen. From talking to black people here. Their state of minds, their goals for the future etc. I just feel like a lot of black people here feel like they have no hope. ANd hte worst part, they seem to accept it!

[Wildcat!]

Anyways, thats my 2 and a half cent, I said I wasnt gonna say nothing, but some of you guys deserved an honest opinion.

[lostalex]

Well, to start with I know that in America men don't rape young black girls because they believe it will cure them of AIDS. That's just one very extreme example of the difference.

To compare any part of the USA to Africa is ridiculous. I'm sorry dude, but if you believe it is comparable at all, then maybe you should ask the hundreds of thousands of Africans applying for USA citizenship on refugee status every year.

I wonder how many Americans are applying for african countries citizenship, and how many of them claim to be refugees from this horrible racism that you claim exists in America. I'd really like to know, how many Americans are refugees from America TO africa? As far as i know... ZERO. But if you know differently, let me know.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Because there's no black ghettos in the US? Come on, the country's well known for racially segregated neighbourhoods in a lot of places. Personally I find statistics more reliable than anecdotal evidence which doesn't really offer a wide perspective

Are you serious? Umm, America is by far the most racially diverse country in the world,. OF course when you have more diversity, you have more racial conflicts. It's stupid to compare the Uk to America, when America has only 52% white population, but UK has 80% white population.

Obviously, the less diversity you have, the less racial conflict you have. Does that mean that LESS diversity is a GOOD thing????

Wow, countries with less races have less racism... who would have thunk it?? DUH!!! lol

FUnny how China has very little racism against blacks.. gee, maybe because they have almost NO black people living there!!!

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by MTVN

And no I'm not saying that being poor is an excuse for crime, I'm saying there's a very clear relationship between the two, poverty and crime are inextricablly linked

My references on this thread are mostly regards VIOLENT crime. That is the real specific worry about black culture. That is more than just about poverty.

There is a cultural leaning towards violence that has nothing to do with the goverment or other outside sources. Its an influence and peer pressure that comes from within black culture itself. It seems they are sucked into a negative way of life at a very young age. Before theyve even had time to start thinking of a career or gaining qualifications.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Are you serious? Umm, America is by far the most racially diverse country in the world,. OF course when you have more diversity, you have more racial conflicts. It's stupid to compare the Uk to America, when America has only 52% white population, but UK has 80% white population.

Obviously, the less diversity you have, the less racial conflict you have. Does that mean that LESS diversity is a GOOD thing????

Wow, countries with less races have less racism... who would have thunk it?? DUH!!! lol

FUnny how China has very little racism against blacks.. gee, maybe because they have almost NO black people living there!!!

What an awful straw man that is, do you actually follow the thread and the discussion or do you just pull out some quotes out of context and proceed with a bizarre rant?

Racial segregation is not an inevitable consequence of racial diversity like you seem to think it is

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

What an awful straw man that is, do you actually follow the thread and the discussion or do you just pull out some quotes out of context and proceed with a bizarre rant?

Racial segregation is not an inevitable consequence of racial diversity like you seem to think it is

so show me then this african country that does racial diversity so much better than the US? South Africa maybe? where they round up Zimbawean immigrants and set them on fire?

That's black south africans setting black zimbaweans on fire, because to south africans, zimbaweans are a different race to them.

But you wanna talk about race relations in America?? seriously?

[ElProximo]

Originally Posted by lostalex

FUnny how China has very little racism against blacks.. gee, maybe because they have almost NO black people living there!!!

China has serious problems with Blacks where they do live. Africans living in China overstay their visas and to be perfectly honest have been causing plenty of trouble in China.
As usual, when Chinese authorities simply try and apply the laws (and actually LESS strictly than they do on their own people) there are near riots in the streets.

Youtube video

Keep in mind his African mates decided, rather than immediately rush him to a hospital, decide to dance his dying body.

China has serious and horrifying 'race riots' which, surprise surprise, involve 'Turks' (Muslims).
I can post the LEAST horrifying videos and in a way this is a huge lesson to those thinking they have it bad because police in the UK may shoot you if you try and shoot them:
Here they storm streets murdering and beating Han Chinese (girls, men whatever):

Youtube video

I have personally been pulled from crowds after Muslims attempted to cajole and aggravate the crowd into racist taunts and trouble at me.
I've also met and shaken hands with Muslims in China happy to meet a westerner for the first time.
I have also been subjected to all kinds of racist slurs, mocking my physical appearance (skin colour, native british facial features etc) by Han Chinese.

Chinese have all manner of racist incidents as broadly as 'Cantonese versus Mandarin' kinds of pointless nonsense,
or,
all kinds of various incidents between some 50 different ethnicities around China which can go as far as 'race riots' to murders.

In the broader spectrum - the racism between Japanese, Koreans and Chinese would BLOW YOUR MIND.
It is a level so FAR BEYOND anything you see in the highly over-sensitive UK as to become downright comical.
Someone on TV mentions 'nappy hair' in the USA and you would think a nation mourns in self-shame.
In China there are words for Japanese (and vice-versa) that make '******' seem like a compliment.

On the bright side. They could care less if someone calls them 'chink' or some adorable funny endearing word compared to what they consider 'real racism'.
They have ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA why someone on UK television is 'apologizing to India' for a bad impersonation.

..which reminds me. we don't have time to get into the most outrageous racism between Indians and Chinese.

Anyways, not really disagreeing with you but just thought I'd share.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by AfroMullet

How is that sad? Go on then, tell me what its like to spend a week in the shoes of a young black male, who doesnt know his father, his mums works for a minimum wage, lives in a council estate in Hackney, doesnt have a job dispite applying constantly, and routinly gets pulled and harassed by police for no good reason.

I can't tell you exactly what it's like to spend a week in the shoes of a young black male. And if it's never discussed, how will I ever know fully? You seem to be annoyed that people are discussing it, but that's how people learn about each other and their problems. Nothing will ever be solved by people not learning about each other because they're frightened of upsetting you, and you do seem really upset.

If I can't learn about your struggles, I will end up as misinformed and ignorant of your culture as you clearly are of mine. How will that ever help any of us to understand each other?

[InOne]

None of the questions of the OP have really been answered, I guess there isn't one

But like people have said there have been all sorts of discrimination, prejudice and racism to all sorts of ethnic groups. There has to be more to it than "being black" Yes poverty is an issue but seems like an endless cycle at the moment.

[Zippy]

LOL thats not the post I remember seeing before ^

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Zippy

LOL thats not the post I remember seeing before ^

Look at the edit reason

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by ElProximo

Anyways, not really disagreeing with you but just thought I'd share.

Very enlightening.

[letmein]

America is by far more racially progressive and aware. The country has a black man as President for god's sake! That would never happen in Europe -- at least not anytime soon. Yes, the US has a problem with racism, just like every other country in the world. However, the problems are more out in the open and discussed, and minority groups are protected. America is the only country that is officially a melting pot. It's amazing that the place didn't implode due to having so many different cultures all living under the same roof. Europe is a million times more racist than America. What flies in Europe, would never fly in the US. The US has had to deal with race relations because everyone is so diverse. In Europe, racism is more easily swept under the carpet, and the population is more ignorant when it comes to people who are not of the same background as themselves. Look at Germany. They still believe that the Jews have too much influence. Some things never change. In America, speech is protected, even hate speech. With this taken into account, minorities have still been able to survive since the public has been forcibly educated on ethnic differences. Europe is having problems adapting to the melting pot model. Its countries are not used to diversity. One only has to look towards America to see how it can actually work and be beneficial. America, which is a much younger country, is light years ahead of the rest of the world, which is light years older. It's extraordinary.

[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by letmein

America is by far more racially progressive and aware. The country has a black man as President for god's sake! That would never happen in Europe -- at least not anytime soon. Yes, the US has a problem with racism, just like every other country in the world. However, the problems are more out in the open and discussed, and minority groups are protected. America is the only country that is officially a melting pot. It's amazing that the place didn't implode due to having so many different cultures all living under the same roof. Europe is a million times more racist than America. What flies in Europe, would never fly in the US. The US has had to deal with race relations because everyone is so diverse. In Europe, racism is more easily swept under the carpet, and the population is more ignorant when it comes to people who are not of the same background as themselves. Look at Germany. They still believe that the Jews have too much influence. Some things never change. In America, speech is protected, even hate speech. With this taken into account, minorities have still been able to survive since the public has been forcibly educated on ethnic differences. Europe is having problems adapting to the melting pot model. Its countries are not used to diversity. One only has to look towards America to see how it can actually work and be beneficial. America, which is a much younger country, is light years ahead of the rest of the world, which is light years older. It's extraordinary.

Very good post! And thats my point. It doesnt seem like people over here want to change anything. They'd rather say, no, there is no racism, an tell you to shut up, if you are pointing it out. There is racism everywhere, like I said, but in the US, like you said, they arent afraid, to talk about it, educate people about other races, etc.... Thats whats lacking here. The attitude is, listemn, you are a guest in our country, so be happy that you are here at least! The attitude, in my opinion comes from the fact that the US belonged to the native americans, and the europeans, in fact are also immigrants, so they dont feel entitled like they do in Europe. In Europe, you actually feel like a guest if you are Black, even if you are British, at least from what I have observed. IN the US, I know for a fact they all feel like americans, even though they know racism is alive and well, they just deal with it, as americans.

[Zippy]

The black population of the UK is just 2%.The black population of Americas is about 13%. Blacks are the second biggest racial group there. Numbers equals power. Over 95% of blacks voted Obama to victory, for example.

Black people did not really start to populate this country significantly until post second world war. But in America they have had a significant presence for hundreds of years. Even back in the 18th century they made up a massive 20% of the US population. Yes, largely due to slavery for the most part but it's still a presence. But as a result of slavery they have had a very long running succession of laws and regulations put in place to protect their rights. The UK or other European countries cannot compete with that foundation or history.

And it wasnt until very recently that blacks got a foothold in power; the first elected governor wasn't until 1989. That's a long long wait to be acknowledged considering they are the 2nd biggest racial group. As for Barack, well here's his mother;



that must have been one hell of a flash to make her look white. Oh wait, she is white!

And if you wanna pretend that America is now some idealistic wonderland of racial harmony then..GOOD LUCK WITH THAT! Try googling the words race, America, inequality, ghetto, low pay, poverty, crime, statistics, education. Happy reading.

Then go view the LA riots on youtube. Makes the UK riots look like a teddy bears picnic. The Uk riots were not race on race.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Zippy

And if you wanna pretend that America is now some idealistic wonderland of racial harmony then..GOOD LUCK WITH THAT! Try googling the words race, America, inequality, ghetto, low pay, poverty, crime, statistics, education. Happy reading.

Then go view the LA riots on youtube. Makes the UK riots look like a teddy bears picnic. The Uk riots were not race on race.

I disagree on all counts. Googling race in America, first of all google anything ab out America and you will find more articles, simply because the US media is far larger and more sophisticated than any other country, also because America talks about race and analyzes itself more than other country. No other country is as self-reflective as America, we are constantly studying ourselves, no other country puts more money and resources into studying itself.

Foreign people complain about the fact that America is too insular, and Americans only know about America, and don't focus much on the rest of the world, well maybe other countries should start analyzing themselves and talking about themselves more like America does. If they did, i think they'd find the same problems in their own backyard.

Instead they'd rather just focus on America, and ignore their own problems. It's easy to forget your own problems when you are more interested in Britney Spears' problems.

[Wildcat!]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I disagree on all counts. Googling race in America, first of all google anything ab out America and you will find more articles, simply because the US media is far larger and more sophisticated than any other country, also because America talks about race and analyzes itself more than other country. No other country is as self-reflective as America, we are constantly studying ourselves, no other country puts more money and resources into studying itself.

Foreign people complain about the fact that America is too insular, and Americans only know about America, and don't focus much on the rest of the world, well maybe other countries should start analyzing themselves and talking about themselves more like America does. If they did, i think they'd find the same problems in their own backyard.

Instead they'd rather just focus on America, and ignore their own problems. It's easy to forget your own problems when you are more interested in Britney Spears' problems.

Very good analysis, I never thought about the insular thing, but its a good point. ANd every other country is kind of obsessed with america.

Another problem with that is, unless you actually live somewhere, you dont really know how the people really are. To me, the way they portray america, or americans in the press here, is nothing like when you meet or live with the average american. I have always found them very caring, welcoming, and good in general. They also are a lot more religious than Europeans, which can explain certain things.

[InOne]

I don't get why this thread has turned into something about racism? It's clearly not a race war or anything over here, black kids are killing eachother over postcodes, it's like a community imploding on itself.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

I disagree on all counts. Googling race in America, first of all google anything ab out America and you will find more articles, simply because the US media is far larger and more sophisticated than any other country, also because America talks about race and analyzes itself more than other country. No other country is as self-reflective as America, we are constantly studying ourselves, no other country puts more money and resources into studying itself.

Foreign people complain about the fact that America is too insular, and Americans only know about America, and don't focus much on the rest of the world, well maybe other countries should start analyzing themselves and talking about themselves more like America does. If they did, i think they'd find the same problems in their own backyard.

Instead they'd rather just focus on America, and ignore their own problems. It's easy to forget your own problems when you are more interested in Britney Spears' problems.

Well most of this is a Captain obvious moment.

Yeah yeah, trust me, we're all very aware of how Americans just love to talk about themselves. And analyse themselves round and round in circles until theyre even more screwed up than they were to begin with. Does it solve your problems? No!

And I never said anything about the amount of articles to be found on Google. I was just pointing towards all the info highlighting the issues in America. If you want to act like theyve all been solved then you a crazy bitch. Its not even just about blacks; there are huge issues with hispanics and Asians. They don't all get along with each other. Then there's the whole other issue of black on black crime.

The USA black prison population % is 5 times the black nationl population. But yeah, you got it all sussed.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Zippy

And it wasnt until very recently that blacks got a foothold in power; the first elected governor wasn't until 1989. That's a long long wait to be acknowledged considering they are the 2nd biggest racial group.

Just out of curiosity, what year was the first black MP elected? ( I know it's not comperable because US governors are not the same as MP's, MP's are more like US congressmen, when was the first US black congressman elected?)

You're post is not very complete when it comes to viewing things in relativity. It would be nice if you put your comments into some kind of context.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Its not even just about blacks; there are huge issues with hispanics and Asians. They don't all get along with each other. Then there's the whole other issue of black on black crime.

The USA black prison population % is 5 times the black nationl population. But yeah, you got it all sussed.

Hispanic is not a race, most latin Americans are White/European decent, Asians are doing fine, in fact actually Asians are doing even better than the average white/european American, infact there is actually a disproportionately HIGH amount of asians in the US University system. so i don't know what you're talking about.

You wanna talk about disproprtionate prison populations, why don't you talk about the first nations proportion in Canadian prisons, or about the same disproportions in UK prisons and all across europe. or about the disproportionate number of Aborigionals in Australian prisons? Why are you singling out America?

Oh wait, you prolly don't know about that, cause yur only interested in and focused on America, you actually havn't looked at the proportions of OTHER countries, have you?

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Just out of curiosity, what year was the first black MP elected? ( I know it's not comperable because US governors are not the same as MP's, MP's are more like US congressmen, when was the first US black congressman elected?)

You're post is not very complete when it comes to viewing things in relativity. It would be nice if you put your comments into some kind of context.

We had an Asian MP in 1892

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by MTVN

We had an Asian MP in 1892

Care to elaborate? lol what a minimalist post.