[arista]

The PM just spoke Live on Worldwide Media.

The Veto was justified as they (Germany/France)
want UK out of their way
while the 27members split into 17members tighter control Euro Club.


The PM is glad we are not in the Euro
as those nations in the New 17 Euro section
will have to go under a single control on more areas.

Of Course the 17 New Deal Nations can still fall into the Sea
and at least we in the UK will not be Dragged down with them
as its the Euro that can Crash.


Sorry Eire
but you were tricked into the Dodgy Euro,


Many want to Vote on this in the UK
but the PM will not allow that - and thats good.




The Great Artist Steve Bell.

Ref : SkyNewsHD,
Bloomberg, CNBC, BBCNews, and FoxBusiness News.


Sign Of The Times



-----------------------------------------




I changed the title : Same Greece problem

[joeysteele]

At some point in the future though, the UK has to have its voice heard again on the European issue, it has to be debated with the UK citizens not just telling them what is going to be.

One of the problems is that Govts believe,only from polling,that the British people are against being in Europe or at least most things EU, no party wants to be the one that really badly collides with the EU and on its own causes full dysfunction with the EU, so it has to come one day that the British people are consulted on the European issue,only then after a long and well informed debate 'with' the people can future Govts then truly act in accordance with the UKs voters wishes as to all things EU.

This PM is hampered badly as to the EU by the Lib Dems, this is not strong Govt at all, yes they have the numbers when they agree on what will be voted for in the commons but a main part of the Govt and the PM having to constantly consult and look over their shoulders at the smaller part of the coalition doe not make strong Govt, in fact it makes for weaker Govt.

The EU problem is not going to go away, it will re-surface year on year, sadly this Govt. cannot effectively act as to the EU crisis and future problems because there is so much internal division in the coalition Govt. as to all things EU connected.

Most of the Conservative party have the right idea as to Europe and our relations with same, Labour is all over the place still on it and the Lib Dems will do anything to pacify Europe.
Fight an election now on the issue with promised referendum on the matter and Cameron could get a surprise win I think, however he has sold away, for the support of the Lib Dems,his right to call an election now before May 2015, the problem is not just with the EU as to losing rights and true democracy, that problem is more at home in the current Lib Dem party who have one aim only, to be in Govt in some way for the maximum time they can this Parliament.

[arista]

Of Course the EU is not going away
it is going to have 17 nation remix
that can still sink in sea.


The French can get Stuffed

[Kazanne]

Good on David Cameron on his stance on this.

[arista]

Originally Posted by kazcringle

Good on David Cameron on his stance on this.

Yes far better than New Labours Brown
who would have sold us down the sewer
at this event,

[Niamh.]

Sorry Eire
but you were tricked into the Dodgy Euro,

You can say that again Arista

[Livia]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

....Fight an election now on the issue with promised referendum on the matter and Cameron could get a surprise win I think, however he has sold away, for the support of the Lib Dems,his right to call an election now before May 2015....

Firstly - NO! Please don't have them call a general election, I've not totally receovered from the last one yet!

There wasn't a promised referendum on the EU Constitution by the Tories. Well before the last election they promised a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. By the time they got into power, the Lisbon Treaty had already been ratified so holding a referendum would have been a very expensive but totally pointless exercise.

David Cameron seems to have done the right thing by this country last night. However, one swallow does not a summer make. It isn't enough to fight a general election on, in my opinion.

[arista]

The French Leader Refused to shake hands with our PM

France Bollocks to You

[Livia]

Originally Posted by arista

The French Leader Refused to shake hands with our PM

France Bollocks to You

Awww I bet he stamped his little foot.

Pillock.

[Scarlett.]

Ya know what, well done Cameron, I'm a Labour voter usually but no Labour PM would have had the balls to basically stick the middle finger upto France and Germany.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Ya know what, well done Cameron, I'm a Labour voter usually but no Labour PM would have had the balls to basically stick the middle finger upto France and Germany.

It wasnt the middle finger, it was the old english two fingers, used to give it to the frenchies in the hundred years war you know, they bloody hate it the french, english archers and all that what ? Pip pip!!

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by Shasown

It wasnt the middle finger, it was the old english two fingers, used to give it to the frenchies in the hundred years war you know, they bloody hate it the french, english archers and all that what ? Pip pip!!

Haha

[arista]

Originally Posted by Chewy

Ya know what, well done Cameron, I'm a Labour voter usually but no Labour PM would have had the balls to basically stick the middle finger upto France and Germany.

Yes hated Labour Leader Miliband
keeps going on today saying - What has he Done? Blah Fecking Blagh....

Your Future, Milliband is Tied to Browns Europe Mess


Enough is Enough
you German Pig and French Onion Rotten Stinkers,
Sink and do not drag us with you.

They are even now trying to get Greece Expelled.




I was up Early this morning
this was Bliss to hear it all Live Uncut.


Even Capt. Remy of TIBB hates that Fecking Deadly Euro.

[Scarlett.]

The Euro was undoubtable the most stupid idea ever, imagine Europe today if the Euro didn't exist

[arista]

Originally Posted by Chewy

The Euro was undoubtable the most stupid idea ever, imagine Europe today if the Euro didn't exist

Corruption
but it helped Germany Alone get Rich
she does not inform her people that.

For Example
Switzerland is not in the Euro
and yet it trades well.


If Labour keep going on and on about there vision of Europe
then voters could hate them even more.
Last Night on Question Time the Puplic got Angry at the current Labour Leader.


Of Course many Labour Gravy Train Euro Jobs are in a Panic.

[arista]

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Firstly - NO! Please don't have them call a general election, I've not totally receovered from the last one yet!

There wasn't a promised referendum on the EU Constitution by the Tories. Well before the last election they promised a referendum on the Lisbon Treaty. By the time they got into power, the Lisbon Treaty had already been ratified so holding a referendum would have been a very expensive but totally pointless exercise.

David Cameron seems to have done the right thing by this country last night. However, one swallow does not a summer make. It isn't enough to fight a general election on, in my opinion.

I think the Conservatives could do better than even they think in an election,exposing the weaknesses of Labour and also getting free from the Lib Dem parasites.

However, I take on board your points,I fully agree with the Conservatives and you yourself that a referendum on the Lisbon treaty would have beem pointless by the time they came into office.

I don't think time is going to be kind to the coalition Govt. Their aims not met by the time the next election comes around.

However,as I said, I still believe the European issue needs to be resolved with some endorsement from the British people, not an assumed but a known endorsement.
In any event, this Parliament has to run until 2015 anyway now, Cameron cannot call an election so my point as to an election now was a vain hope of one.

I fear the next election will see Labour take power again,I do feel the best chance for the Conservatives is the next 6 months or so,a referendum on European issues would go a long way to hauling voters back in.
By 2015,the problems and hardship in force over the next 3 years will only ensure a backlash against the coalition,hopefully though it will see the Lib Dems reduced to less than 20 seats.

[arista]

"I fear the next election will see Labour take power again,"


But at this Time the Leader of Labour is Hated by Labour Voters
in a big way.


2015 is far away
lets see if Labour change their bad leader first.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by arista

"I fear the next election will see Labour take power again,"


But at this Time the Leader of Labour is Hated by Labour Voters
in a big way.


2015 is far away
lets see if Labour change their bad leader first.

Sadly though arista, as I have learned from watching old elections and also talking to people a lot older than myself who have seen many changes of Govts; sometimes it doesn't matter who is leader of a party, also usually it is Govts. who 'lose' elections not oppositions who 'win' them.

From history and all I have heard and read,Margaret Thatcher was a hated leader as opposewd to James Callaghan but she won an election and more of them too, Ted Heath was far more disliked than Wilson but beat Wilson in 1970 just to give 2 instances.

This Govt is going to be solely judged on the economy and the deficit reduction promise, all pundits and economists now say they have no chance to succeed there by the next election or even 2 years beyond it.
Europe may be the only saving grace the Conservatives can haul in support for.

If that is the scenario at the next election and nothing much has even been achieved further as to the EU issue,then sadly in my view at this time, it won't matter who is leading Labour, they will stay ahead in the polls as they are at this time, the problem is that it will be by 2015 a more cemented lead and no matter who leads them they will likely scrape in.

I am not a Conservative, I have no party allegiance at all,if I was the Conservative leader at this moment. though I would be capitalising on the EU issue which is one of the few areas that the Conservatives have the overwhelming support likely of voters on.
Politics is about lost chances and bad timing, had Gordon Brown called an election not long after he became PM, he would have likely got back in albeit with a further reduced majority.

The economic state we are in at this time and the reformation of the EU in the pot too is likely the best it will get for the Conservatives and I fear this will go down in history as another political opportunity missed,another bad judgement also from the PM too that has allowed the Lib Dems to make it that he cannot call an election at a time of his choosing,it has to be May 2015.

Sieze the day, worry about the years later.

[Livia]

I don't agree joey. Eighteen months into a term is just too soon. There are no plans, as far as I know, for the Conservatives to call a snap election even if the LibDems were in agreement. Plus all the time that Labour have Miliband as leader, he's more or less the greatest weapon the Tory's have.

Having said I don't agree... a couple of great posts joey. Eloquent and well thought-through arguments.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

I don't agree joey. Eighteen months into a term is just too soon. There are no plans, as far as I know, for the Conservatives to call a snap election even if the LibDems were in agreement. Plus all the time that Labour have Miliband as leader, he's more or less the greatest weapon the Tory's have.

Having said I don't agree... a couple of great posts joey. Eloquent and well thought-through arguments.

Oh I agree with you as well overall,I love our mini debates on here. I just think from my perspective that this may be the only good time for the Conservatives to come for a long while.

I am fully aware that no election is even planned or could be called anyway with the new rule that has been applied to this parliament.
Which I am sure you know is that 55% of MPs would have to vote for an election for one to be called and failing that, the PM cannot himself call one until May 2015 under the Lib Dems proposals put in place earlier.

I understand and again I am sure you will know if I am right or wrong on this, that the Lords agreed to support those measures but only for this parliament and so not make it binding on future Govts or Prime Ministers.

I agree Miliband may be a liability to Labour but once over this intricate crisis, it would not surprise me for Labour to change their leader again,3 years is a long time indeed in politics and if Labour is given enough time it could well work more in their favour than for the Conservatives.

[Livia]

Do you want a job, joey? You'd be a shoe-in. I work with people who aren't as in touch with this stuff as you are.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

Do you want a job, joey? You'd be a shoe-in. I work with people who aren't as in touch with this stuff as you are.

You are very kind Livia, who knows after I finish Uni.

[MTVN]

I'm not sure if it is the right move from a pragmatic point of view, but I do hold a smidgen of respect for him for standing up to Sarkozy and Merkel and living up to his word

Ah well, we might have lost the support of the Eurozone but at least we can rely on Hungary!

Edit - Oh I've just realised that they haven't vetoed it as was earlier thought, but they're referring it to their Parliaments along with Sweden and the Czech Republic, it really is just us atm then

[lostalex]

The EU is basically on par with the AU(african union) at this point. It's just a bunch of politicians trying to save face with their electorates by acting tough within this toothless organization.