[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

We should offer him up to Britains got talent, he knew the guy wouldn't be Bill Smith or Fred Jones before they published any CCTV images, that's got to be some fantastic premonition?

"Hello! I am the amazing psychic Kirk! I promise I can tell you about any crime and not get it wrong! "

"So who committed this crime?"

"Not Bill Smith or Fred Jones! "

*gasps* *cheers*" That's right!! Amazing!! And this one? "

"DEFINITELY not Bill Smith, Fred Jones, or Bob McDonald"

"Actually that one was a guy called Fred Jones... "

*bzzzzt* *bzzzzt* *bzzzzt*
.... X............. X............ X.......


And just like that, Kirk's 15 minutes of fame came to a tragic end.

[Livia]

You know, Kirk has a right to his opinion without getting a whole performance in reply.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Well waddya know?

It's my amazing reading ability

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

You know, Kirk has a right to his opinion without getting a whole performance in reply.

What exactly is his opinion? It's far too cryptic for me to decipher.

[kirklancaster]

Thank you Liv, for your defense.

To answer the posts on here - I am referring to a time BEFORE I had SEEN this on this forum. A time when I had NOT seen it on any TV news Channel or read about it in any newspaper, but even if I HAD seen a cctv photo of a black man dressed in traditional Zulu garb, it would not preclude him from being a third or fourth generation British African and having the name Tom Smith, no more than a blonde haired white man featured in a cctv photo cannot be called Krystoff Stanislow, or similar.

However, I had not seen any such photo, nor had any previous knowledge, but was simply talking briefly with a neighbour who mentioned that 'another nutter was at it, attacking women in London'. He did not mention specifics, or give any description of the perpetrator, but then he did not have to, and I casually told him; "Odds on it will be a foreigner" Or words to that effect, and NO - despite what some on here may insist - I was NOT being xenophobic or racist, just realistic.

Realistic, because, unlike a lot of the views on this forum - my views are not shaped through living in a 'rose-festooned' bubble in 'Fool's Paradise' but because I live in the REAL world.

I am no prejudicial judge - I only formulate opinions after carefully weighing evidence from as many sources as possible, including my own direct experience learnt over a lot of years, and yes, I can still make a wrong call, but not often - as events over time eventually often support including on this very forum.

So I made the statement based NOT on prejudice but based on FACTS and MATHEMATICAL probability.

T.S himself will know, that when a wealthy punter placed Ł110,000 on the mighty Frankel at odds of 2 to 11 for his 14th and final ever race - The 2012 Champion Stakes, that punter was to all intents and purposes 'predicting' the winner. Yet it was not a prediction based on any 'psychic' ability, nor was it an act of idiocy - it was a LOGICAL ASSUMPTION based on the FACTS that Frankel had won his previous 13 races. That he had won them by a total of 76 lengths. That his Timeform rating of 147 is the highest in Timeform's history. That his official rating of 140 is the highest since the World Thoroughbred Rankings records began in 1977. etc etc etc.

Likewise, my statement BEFORE the facts of this case were known, had NOTHING to do with 'psychic' ability JUST plain old fashioned, historical precedents and the 'status quo' concerning LONDON and CRIME - previous FORM in other words :

1) Since the 2011 Census London has INCREASINGLY and RAPIDLY become a city where White Ethnic Britons are in a clear MINORITY.

2) As far back as 2007, official reports stated that foreigners were responsible for more than one in four crimes committed in London, and that ratio has now increased to more than one in three.

3) In 2010 an official report by Scotland Yard (produced under the Freedom of Information Act) revealed that Blacks were responsible for more than two-thirds of shootings and more than half of robberies and street crimes in London, make up 9 out of every 10 drug suspects, and more than I in every 3 sex crimes.

4) Other reports and Investigations during the past 5 years have revealed that:

a) Nationals of Poland, Romania and Lithuania are most likely of all foreigners to be prosecuted by the police
b) Out of 195,714 cases proceeded against alleged criminals in 2010, 46,588 were foreign nationals – or 24 per cent of the total.
c) Seven of the top ten offender nationalities were European. Poland came top with 4,742 alleged offenders, ahead of Romania with 3,952 and Lithuania with 2,561. Police processed 436 Australians.

Unsolved crime was NOT included in the results and the above figures have dramatically increased over the 5 years since.

5) It is impossible to view the BBC's 'Crimewatch' without becoming aware that around 75% of the crimes aired feature non-British or non-White suspects/perpetrators.

Indeed, of the 10 criminals featured on the Rogues Gallery of 26 Feb 2010 - mainly involving violent crimes, 8 were non-white, and this episode is not unique.

6) It is the same with other crime/police documentaries such as 'Street Crime UK', 'Cops', The Met' etc. etc. A very DISPROPORTIONATE number of criminals are foreign.

Now, some may see 'deliberate targeting' because of those much loved terms; 'Racial Prejudice', or 'Xenophobia' on the part of the program makers, but in light of the facts that many DIFFERENT companies produce these programs, I prefer to believe that the results on screen or in type-written reports, are 'as the chips fall' – in other words, this IS the Status Quo, this IS HOW IT IS.

Much like if one went fishing every week in the same pond one had fished in for decades, but increasingly one now kept hooking 80% turds where it used to be mainly fish – then one is either mistakenly fishing in a cess pit, or those once well-stocked waters are becoming increasingly polluted.

Have a nice day.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Thank you Liv, for your defense.

Much like if one went fishing every week in the same pond one had fished in for decades, but increasingly one now kept hooking 80% turds where it used to be mainly fish – then one is either mistakenly fishing in a cess pit, or those once well-stocked waters are becoming increasingly polluted.

Have a nice day.

This is a seriously disturbing analogy.

[lime]

Originally Posted by Cherie

This is a seriously disturbing analogy.

Agree 100%
As a 43yr old Afrikaner , that kind of statements reminds me of my school days during apartheid when after morning prayers we were constantly told how good we were and how bad the "Kaffirs" were

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by lime

Agree 100%
As a 43yr old Afrikaner , that kind of statements reminds me of my school days during apartheid when after morning prayers we were constantly told how good we were and how bad the "Kaffirs" were

Not at all - I am referring specifically to CRIMINALS within the context of this thread - NOT 'PEOPLE OF COLOUR' or 'FOREIGNERS' per se.

Do you not regard criminals as turds? Especially violent ones?

A white or pink coloured foreign criminal is still a criminal, as is a black or brown skinned one.

Otherwise, non-criminal foreigners OR Britons are merely people.

I am a 'Person of Colour' myself and the son of an immigrant, so I am not being offensive to any others who are the same, I'm merely stating facts.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Not at all - I am referring specifically to CRIMINALS within the context of this thread - NOT 'PEOPLE OF COLOUR' or 'FOREIGNERS' per se.

Do you not regard criminals as turds? Especially violent ones?

A white or pink coloured foreign criminal is still a criminal, as is a black or brown skinned one.

Otherwise, non-criminal foreigners OR Britons are merely people.

I am a 'Person of Colour' myself and the son of an immigrant, so I am not being offensive to any others who are the same, I'm merely stating facts.

You keep telling yourself that Kirk

[Toy Soldier]

Hmmmmmmmm it's hardly a new concept, it's called racial profiling, and also, it's not like someone just came up with the idea of racial profiling out of nowhere: certain types of crimes are more likely to be carried out by certain demographics.

However, there are also VERY GOOD REASONS to avoid being tempted into using racial profiling. It's "shortcut logic" that can lead to devastating misconceptions and mistakes. In other words, there are well researched reasons that law enforcement agencies don't (or shouldn't) do it.

It also creates self-fulfilling prophecies. For example; in certain areas, young black men are far more likely than any other group to be carrying a blade. This lead to pretty widescale racial profiling for "random" stop and search practices by the police. Not only is this unfair, it also (for obvious reason) helps to create a pariah-culture amoungst that group, and ends up pushing more young people down the sort of route where they ARE more likely to be carrying a blade, reinforcing the stereotype, and seemingly justifying the profiling.

TL;DR - there's a very good reason, sometimes, not to share an assumption no matter how convinced of it you are - and even if it turns out to be an accurate assumption.



ALSO Kirk, I resent the implication in your post. Frankel is not a sex predator, that old fella's jizz is worth a fortune

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You keep telling yourself that Kirk

I am truly sorry that you feel this way Niamh because I am being truthful.

My point is that foreign criminals gravitate here because the pickings are richer and if they do get caught, our courts are more lenient, and if they are imprisoned, our prisons are like 5 star hotels compaed to the prisons back in their own countries. This being the case, there IS no real deterrent, and thus the INFLUX Continues unabated. I'm sorry, but that IS the way I see it.

The above points, by the way, are from an interview given by a Polish immigrant repeat offender who had just come out of jail here.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Hmmmmmmmm it's hardly a new concept, it's called racial profiling, and also, it's not like someone just came up with the idea of racial profiling out of nowhere: certain types of crimes are more likely to be carried out by certain demographics.

However, there are also VERY GOOD REASONS to avoid being tempted into using racial profiling. It's "shortcut logic" that can lead to devastating misconceptions and mistakes. In other words, there are well researched reasons that law enforcement agencies don't (or shouldn't) do it.

It also creates self-fulfilling prophecies. For example; in certain areas, young black men are far more likely than any other group to be carrying a blade. This lead to pretty widescale racial profiling for "random" stop and search practices by the police. Not only is this unfair, it also (for obvious reason) helps to create a pariah-culture amoungst that group, and ends up pushing more young people down the sort of route where they ARE more likely to be carrying a blade, reinforcing the stereotype, and seemingly justifying the profiling.

TL;DR - there's a very good reason, sometimes, not to share an assumption no matter how convinced of it you are - and even if it turns out to be an accurate assumption.



ALSO Kirk, I resent the implication in your post. Frankel is not a sex predator, that old fella's jizz is worth a fortune

A very good post T.S.

I love Frankel and loved his trainer the incomparable Henry Cecil. He is sorely missed, and I'm just thankful that Frankel raised him up again out of the doldrums before he passed.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I am truly sorry that you feel this way Niamh because I am being truthful.

My point is that foreign criminals gravitate here because the pickings are richer and if they do get caught, our courts are more lenient, and if they are imprisoned, our prisons are like 5 star hotels compaed to the prisons back in their own countries. This being the case, there IS no real deterrent, and thus the INFLUX Continues unabated. I'm sorry, but that IS the way I see it.

The above points, by the way, are from an interview given by a Polish immigrant repeat offender who had just come out of jail here.

Well, I personally know plenty of Polish people, all hard working and lovely people. What you're saying about Polish people(or whatever nationality/nationalities) in general is highly offensive whether you're just talking about "the bad ones" or not. In situations like these I think it's always a good idea to put yourself in the shoes of those you're speaking about (which despite your claims of not including "the good ones" will always offend "the good ones" anyway) Like if you said "It was probably an Irish person, it usually is", I would find that offensive even if you put in your disclaimer of "I'm not saying all Irish people are scum bags but...."

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Not at all - I am referring specifically to CRIMINALS within the context of this thread - NOT 'PEOPLE OF COLOUR' or 'FOREIGNERS' per se.

Do you not regard criminals as turds? Especially violent ones?

A white or pink coloured foreign criminal is still a criminal, as is a black or brown skinned one.

Otherwise, non-criminal foreigners OR Britons are merely people.

I am a 'Person of Colour' myself and the son of an immigrant, so I am not being offensive to any others who are the same, I'm merely stating facts.

You weren't referring to criminals in your analogy, it was this that Lime found offensive I would say he is owed an apology.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You weren't referring to criminals in your analogy, it was this that Lime found offensive I would say he is owed an apology.

Well then - why don't you make it. I was clearly NOT referring to ALL foreigners.

And I was correct in my assumption.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Well then - why don't you make it. I was clearly NOT referring to ALL foreigners.

And I was correct in my assumption.

This time maybe but do you come into threads or make a statement eachtime you're wrong and it's an English person who committed a crime? - There are plenty of those too you know

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Well then - why don't you make it. I was clearly NOT referring to ALL foreigners.

And I was correct in my assumption.

No didn't think you would, I know being right is the all encompassing goal for you, however it was the use of 'turd' in your story... can you not see how this could be seen as offensive?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Another example of 'The Truth That Dare Not Be Spoken' Before any CCTV pics were published, I predicted to my friend that when this twat was caught, they would not call him Bill Smith or Fred Jones -- if you know what I mean. I just dare not state as much on here.

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

However, I had not seen any such photo, nor had any previous knowledge, but was simply talking briefly with a neighbour who mentioned that 'another nutter was at it, attacking women in London'. He did not mention specifics, or give any description of the perpetrator, but then he did not have to, and I casually told him; "Odds on it will be a foreigner" Or words to that effect, and NO - despite what some on here may insist - I was NOT being xenophobic or racist, just realistic.



Much like if one went fishing every week in the same pond one had fished in for decades, but increasingly one now kept hooking 80% turds where it used to be mainly fish – then one is either mistakenly fishing in a cess pit, or those once well-stocked waters are becoming increasingly polluted.

Have a nice day.

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

Not at all - I am referring specifically to CRIMINALS within the context of this thread - NOT 'PEOPLE OF COLOUR' or 'FOREIGNERS' per se.

.

So I guess 80% of London is full of criminals then ..the back pedalling .

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

This time maybe but do you come into threads or make a statement eachtime you're wrong and it's an English person who committed a crime? - There are plenty of those too you know

I do know that Niamh, and I do comment upon threads where white or English people commit crime, but I have not had to come on and admit being wrong in other cases because this particular scenario is the first time it has ocurred.

I did not intend to offend anyone but was stating the truth as I know it, but I did take the time to respond to Lime and explain that I was specifically referring to criminal foreigners NOT foreigners or blacks per se, and I hope that he recognises this.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Cherie

So I guess 80% of London is full of criminals then ..the back pedalling .

I cannot help your skewed perception of what I CLEARLY wrote, nor does your personal opportunist axe-grinding come as any surprise to me.

I am not back-peddling at all, merely explaining what I meant to someone who I respect and do not wish to fall out with.

Perhaps YOU could explain how you educe that "London is 80% full of criminals" from what I ACTUALLY wrote?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I cannot help your skewed perception of what I CLEARLY wrote, nor does your personal opportunist axe-grinding come as any surprise to me.

I love how you apologise to Niamh but attack me, my perception isn't scewed if it were no one would agree with it, get over it, I normally avoid your posts but in some cases I just can't let them pass. Just have a look at how many of your posts I have actually commented on in the last month and find that personal axe you are talking about please. I will be waiting.

[Kizzy]

Clearly your turd reference struck a chord and reminded Lime of schooldays in the times of apartheid, I can see why.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Cherie

I love how you apologise to Niamh but attack me, my perception isn't scewed if it were no one would agree with it, get over it, I normally avoid your posts but in some cases I just can't let them pass. Just have a look at how many of your posts I have actually commented on in the last month and find that personal axe you are talking about please. I will be waiting.

There is a vast difference in my 'attacking' you, as you knowingly wrongly claim, and in my 'defending' myself against your attack, which is the true state of affairs.

Your specification of "the last month" as evidence that you have not "commented" on my posts is as disgenuine as your claim that you "normally avoid" my posts, because it was ME who told you that I was ignoring YOU about a month ago after you - once again - seized upon a minor disagreement which I had with young JoshBB and blew it up out of all proportion, milking it for all it was worth to satisfy your own agenda. THE TRUTH OF THIS IS THERE ON THE THREADS.

And I HAVE ignored you since.

And it is ironic that you write: "but in some cases I just can't let them pass." Because, you have forced me into a position where I cannot let your comments pass.

However, I suggest we leave it here, because I do not want to to be warned, infracted or banned and yet it IS impossible to defend myself against such 'personal' attack from the predictable 'usual suspects' WITHOUT getting personal in return.

I suggest we just continue to ignore each other.

Bye.

[Livia]

Some people don't agree with what Kirk posted. Fine. Doesn't take a whole bunch of you to let him know, does it? All getting bent out of shape because you don't agree... while in another part of the forum a fifteen year old has posted a thread "what type of porn do you prefer". This place is a madhouse.

[lime]

You might consider yourself as being non offensive .....but you are.It is clear from Aristas op that the offdener was either Arabic or mediteranin .Days later you want to claim that you and your mate had already decidced that this crime was carried out by a forgerins

Please excuse my english ...it's not my first language.....I'm one of those nasty forgerins you here about