[Brillopad]

Disabled wheelchair users spent years campaigning for wheelchair spaces on buses as this is their only means of transport. How disgusting of mothers to think they should have priority for these spaces for their pushchairs. Without the campaign of wheelchair users there would be no such spaces on buses at all.

Although it is okay to use these spaces the rest of the time pushchair users should undoubtedly move when a wheelchair user gets on. Anyone who refuses to move should be put off the bus or fined and forced to pay just like people to commit parking offences. Shame on them!!!

[Cherie]

Hasn't the Supreme Court recently ruled on this, drivers will have to ensure the space is vacated if a wheelchair user needs the space

[Toy Soldier]

It's a tough one though... what are the options? Let's say there is already a baby in a pram in the space and a wheelchair user needs to get on. You only have two options. Put the pram in the aisle unsecure (which is dangerous), or tell the people with the pram to then get OFF the bus, potentially miles from their destination AND miles from home.

The only solution, then, is to make wheelchair spaces strictly wheelchairs only, rather than "priority".

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's a tough one though... what are the options? Let's say there is already a baby in a pram in the space and a wheelchair user needs to get on. You only have two options. Put the pram in the aisle unsecure (which is dangerous), or tell the people with the pram to then get OFF the bus, potentially miles from their destination AND miles from home.

The only solution, then, is to make wheelchair spaces strictly wheelchairs only, rather than "priority".

Yeah I was going to add that the design of buses should be changed to incorporate both

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Hasn't the Supreme Court recently ruled on this, drivers will have to ensure the space is vacated if a wheelchair user needs the space

They have to try but cannot force them off the bus apparently. If they are not able to enforce this they should be able to fine the mother or, if necessary, call the police. I know that seems extreme but if they cannot enforce this it will probably happen more often now people know it can't be enforced.

I have used buses with a pushchair in the past and would always move for a wheelchair user as that is who the spaces are designed for. I have never seen anyone refuse personally. I cannot understand the type of mentality that thinks it is ok to to do that.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's a tough one though... what are the options? Let's say there is already a baby in a pram in the space and a wheelchair user needs to get on. You only have two options. Put the pram in the aisle unsecure (which is dangerous), or tell the people with the pram to then get OFF the bus, potentially miles from their destination AND miles from home.

The only solution, then, is to make wheelchair spaces strictly wheelchairs only, rather than "priority".

I see your point but people should only use small buggies on buses not prams as these are impractical with the potential of causing such problems.

They should consider themselves lucky to have access to these spaces most of the time as mothers haven't always had this facility, they previously had to manage. Wheelchair users can't manage.

[arista]

Yes Wheelchairs Are First

The Problem with one boss of a Company
his drivers can not leave the cab
as it has Ł5,000 in cash in it


He was Early on AM LBC last week

[arista]

The Best way is Turn the Bus Off
and tell the FAT lady with the Push chair and child
to fold it up.

I am sure others well help her
as the bus Ain't Going until the Wheelchair person
is the the PROPER place


Thats the Way to do it
TS , LT and DR

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I see your point but people should only use small buggies on buses not prams as these are impractical with the potential of causing such problems.

They should consider themselves lucky to have access to these spaces most of the time as mothers haven't always had this facility, they previously had to manage. Wheelchair users can't manage.

I agree in principle that people shouldn't bother trying to take prams on public transport, they are a nightmare to get on and off, too. We always used slings / baby carriers because we were stuck using public transport when mine were very little and it's a thousands times more convenient for everyone.

I can sympathise with both sides though because, the sad fact of the matter is, public transport is just straight up stressful / not fun for anyone... I don't mind trains so much (WITHOUT kids with me) but buses are just awful, even alone. No one is having fun.

Of course there are other inherent problems, too... I mean it's all very well saying that prams / buggies must move for a wheelchair but... what if the bus comes to a stop where a wheelchair user needs to get on, but there is ALREADY another wheelchair in the space? Urgh.

Basically I just feel bad for anyone who is stuck having to deal with public transport. We had to for years and it's ****ing miserable.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I agree in principle that people shouldn't bother trying to take prams on public transport, they are a nightmare to get on and off, too. We always used slings / baby carriers because we were stuck using public transport when mine were very little and it's a thousands times more convenient for everyone.

I can sympathise with both sides though because, the sad fact of the matter is, public transport is just straight up stressful / not fun for anyone... I don't mind trains so much (WITHOUT kids with me) but buses are just awful, even alone. No one is having fun.

Of course there are other inherent problems, too... I mean it's all very well saying that prams / buggies must move for a wheelchair but... what if the bus comes to a stop where a wheelchair user needs to get on, but there is ALREADY another wheelchair in the space? Urgh.

Basically I just feel bad for anyone who is stuck having to deal with public transport. We had to for years and it's ****ing miserable.

It is is miserable which is why many don't use it despite encouragement from government etc to ease traffic problems, emissions etc but seemingly not putting in the funds to support this. I don't know what the answer is but pushchair users refusing to move for more entitled wheelchair users isn't it.

I also find it very hypocritical of pushchair users who rely on the goodwill of ordinary users to respect their need for the space, many expect it, but do not do the same for wheelchair users.

[Withano]

Theres space for at least 4 on my local buses, I've never encountered this problem. Are you sure its a problem?

[lime]

I don't think its as simple as to say parent and child/infant should be removed from bus and police called if they refuse to move...what if parent and child are on their way to a very important hospital appointment and wheelchair user is on their way to meet up with mates for a coffee.

Would people look at if differently if the child in buggy had a chronic illness and the wheelchair user had become dependent on wheelchair through years of injecting heroin?

My neighbour is a bus driver in Dublin city center and several times daily he picks up the same heroin addicts in wheelchairs ...they have their free travel pass which entitles them to travel with a companion...They spend the day travelling back and fort through the city asking other passengers to give them the bus fare and they will take them on as their travel companion...and for the most part people give them the money.

For the most part I think if the parent can sit the child on their lap and their journey is not vitaly important ..there is no excuse not to move and allow wheelchair user on.

[Kizzy]

When mine were little getting on a bus with the buggy up was not an option it was a struggle getting it up and down but it was possible.... how possible is it for a wheelchair user to fold their wheelchair down and walk it onto the bus?

I was discussing this with my son yesterday, he was disgusted they couldn't reach a compromise and the guy denied travel. I've been on buses where it's been dark, cold and raining and buggy users will let the bus go and wait for the next as the 2 buggy spaces were filled!.. it's crazy :/

[Toy Soldier]

The major issue you also have is that no one can be physically removed by the driver or others. You can't touch them. Therefore the only way to remove someone who physically won't get out of the space is to call the police there and then... who will likely take half an hour or longer to arrive (as it is not an emergency)... and so everyone else on the bus is late going to wherever they were going because they're waiting for police intervention.

[Kizzy]

And?... The initial incident no doubt took a while to sort out, sometimes the inconvenience of others comes second when it's reasonable and valid to do so

* support for strikers *

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

And?... The initial incident no doubt took a while to sort out, sometimes the inconvenience of others comes second when it's reasonable and valid to do so

* support for strikers *

It's not feasible. Public transport networks are a disgrace already (being late, leaving early, not showing up at all...) without adding constant delays.

Strike action is different in my opinion. It usually is known about in advance for people to make alternate arrangements. Unexpected hold ups like this can be disastrous for some people. For example, the bus I used to get to work before we were driving was the one that went on to the hospital. It is the ONLY public transport available to the hospital from here and runs only once every 2 hours. I was on it once when there was a delay (it ran out of fuel...). Luckily only about 2 miles away from my work at that point so walkable. But there was an elderly woman on the bus who was in a blind panic because she was going to miss her hospital appointment... And it can take weeks or even MONTHS to rearrange an appointment if you miss it, which for an elderly person whose health could easily decline in that time, is pretty drastic.

I'm afraid to say that I think reliability, timeliness and smooth operation of public transport at this point needs to come before any and all other considerations... Because the state of our buses and trains currently in that regard is a complete embarrassment.

[Vicky.]

I always folded my buggy if someone in a wheelchair got on. I can't imagine refusing to.

However, before I had kids I once saw a stand off between a whelchair user and someone with a very large buggy (honestly, it was like a tank) and from what I could gather, the pushchair was so big as it was a 'disability buggy' but the wheelchair user kept saying the mother should get off and eventually the mother explained whatever to the driver and he said to the wheelchair user that the child was disabled also. And the wheelchair user went a bit mental, stood up, folded their wheelchair up, stuffed it in the baggage bit, and went and sat on a normal chair

So yeah, its not always that straight forward.

Generally though, I do think people who refuse to fold prams for wheelchairs are twunts. Someone once had an EMPTY buggy in the pram space when I got on with Skye...she was a few months old and asleep and as he had no child in the pram I asked him to move...he argued the toss with me that it was 'inconvenient' to fold down the buggy then open it again at his stop...he was ON HIS WAY to pick a child up. What a ****ing dick. I told him this and he argued with me until the busdriver told him in no uncertain terms to move of get off the bus. What a douche...

We have James in a pushchair now if its going to be along walk as he tires out quite easily. I use the buggy spaces but if I see someone else waiting I will always put his down as he doesnt 'need' it as such. Even when they were younger I used to put mine down if someone wanted on who had a newborn or something as its a lot easier to shift a 6 month old than fanny about waking a newborn.

[Kizzy]

So instead of targeting the multi million in profit making organisation to improve their provision you feel the onus is on the service users to forgo their rights?

Well, ok.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Withano

Theres space for at least 4 on my local buses, I've never encountered this problem. Are you sure its a problem?

Yes it went to Court taking
3 or 5 years , I think
The Judge Ruled Wheelchairs first


Some Mothers Refuse to Fold up their Chair
Eject them - I say


You maybe in a Zone
that is well liked.

Pop into Zones that are Packed
you will soon find a mother Taking
the wrong space
FACT

[Vicky.]

Go North east also..they have a thing where if a wheelchair user wants to get on and there is no space (this means another wheelchair user is on as far as I know, not someone refusing to move but I have never seen it in action as honestly, there aren't many wheelchair users that use buses) they will call a taxi and pay for it for them. Not perfect, but better than elsewhere

[Withano]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes it went to Court taking
3 or 5 years , I think
The Judge Ruled Wheelchairs first


Some Mothers Refuse to Fold up their Chair
Eject them - I say


You maybe in a Zone
that is well liked.

Pop into Zones that are Packed
you will soon find a mother Taking
the wrong space
FACT

But thats still only one time in the last however many years.. Compromises have always been made every other time it would seem?

[arista]

Yes Vicky
1 Wheelchair on the thats fine.

But a Mother REFUSING to move is EVIL
ref : Court Case
She Lost

[Kizzy]

Lots of wheelchair users use buses here, they 'kneel' as in dip a little, then a ramp is folded out.
Paying for a taxi is a lovely gesture, couldn't see firstbus ( main company operating in Leeds) doing that!

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes Vicky
1 Wheelchair on the thats fine.

But a Mother REFUSING to move is EVIL
ref : Court Case
She Lost

Depends on the circumstances tbh. Would you say the mother in my post above was evil? The one with a disabled child in a large pram that did not move for another disabled person just because their child was younger than the other person (who it actually turned out, could sit on a normal chair)

[arista]

Originally Posted by Withano

But thats still only one time in the last however many years.. Compromises have always been made every other time it would seem?

No its been loads of Cases

Debated Live all week
Ref : Ch5HD AM Live/ LBC / R4 /R5/itv This Morning/
LWHD./ SkyNewsHD / BBCnewsHD/ Ch4HD news
Ch5HD news

You must be in a Zone that is like a Bubble on it
with respect


Its only Years ago case because of the Problem
of Courts /Judges.


There can be many more now its illegal