[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Depends on the circumstances tbh. Would you say the mother in my post above was evil? The one with a disabled child in a large pram that did not move for another disabled person just because their child was younger than the other person (who it actually turned out, could sit on a normal chair)

That was one instance Vicky, and of course the onus is not on the disabled child to move, in that instance the outcome of the case would have been different.
It does not negate the need for protections for disabled persons using a service.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That was one instance Vicky, and of course the onus is not on the disabled child to move, in that instance the outcome of the case would have been different.
It does not negate the need for protections for disabled persons using a service.

Of course not. But noone knows the circumstances of another. I have quite strong views on this as I am apparently classed as disabled at the moment given my long history of pain issues and such. I was on a bus a few months back on my way to the pain clinic and some old woman got on and started bawling and shouting at me for sitting in the priority seats when I am 'a young fit woman' and apparently I was just lazy and so on. I was in so much pain that instead of standing my ground I broke down crying, and I never ****ing cry in public. Horrible old witch.

Edit. Come to think of it, I had that before too when heavily pregnant with Skye. Another old woman yelling at me because I didn't offer her a seat...even though I was obviously pregnant and the bus was filled so why zone in on me...

But yeah, I imagine some parents (not just mothers arista) are just selfish bastards who refuse to move. But again, as withano says, just how common is this problem? I never heard of it at all until this one case so its happened...once? It shouldn't happen at all, but this is hardly widespread.

[DemolitionRed]

You make some good points Vicky

I was on the disability key scheme when I was fighting cancer. This allowed me to access disabled toilets when I was out and about. You have this master key which fits into the lock of a disability toilet. There are plenty of none key disability toilets around and before I had cancer, I used to give dirty looks to non-disabled people using that service. I now realize that you don't have to look disabled to be disabled. We should never judge a book by its cover.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Of course not. But noone knows the circumstances of another. I have quite strong views on this as I am apparently classed as disabled at the moment given my long history of pain issues and such. I was on a bus a few months back on my way to the pain clinic and some old woman got on and started bawling and shouting at me for sitting in the priority seats when I am 'a young fit woman' and apparently I was just lazy and so on. I was in so much pain that instead of standing my ground I broke down crying, and I never ****ing cry in public. Horrible old witch.

Edit. Come to think of it, I had that before too when heavily pregnant with Skye. Another old woman yelling at me because I didn't offer her a seat...even though I was obviously pregnant and the bus was filled so why zone in on me...

But yeah, I imagine some parents (not just mothers arista) are just selfish bastards who refuse to move. But again, as withano says, just how common is this problem? I never heard of it at all until this one case so its happened...once? It shouldn't happen at all, but this is hardly widespread.

Aw Vicky what an ol hag

It won't be all that common no as in the majority of cases there will be some compromise made, I'm glad this was a point of principle though.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

But thats still only one time in the last however many years.. Compromises have always been made every other time it would seem?

It isn't just one time, many wheelchair users have experienced this problem and whilst a film crew were covering the recent court action there was an incident of a young women in a wheelchair trying to get on a bus and an empty buggy was in the wheelchair space whilst the mother was upstairs with her children.

Another woman was getting quite gobby to the wheelchair user and telling her to hurry up as she was holding up the bus. Some other idiot shouted out that he was late for work - how uncomfortable that poor girl must have felt. The bus driver should have insisted the woman come and fold her buggy or put it out of the bus. Disgraceful.

So yes, as per your previous post, it is an issue for wheelchair users.

[Suze]

I hardly go on buses if it can be helped, but ALWAYS give my seat up to others more needy when the need is there, to me that is just the right thing to do. When my two boys were young, I would rarely take them on the bus when they were below school age as I could tuck them up snugly in their pram/pushchair and walk a distance instead.

As Vicky points out, there are different circumstances that dictate who should be prioritised on buses, and I feel bad for you Vicky having to put up with some who treated you like that on the buses. There do seem to be some mothers who seem to come in packs on buses and who go between 1 to 3 stops, a distance it seems they could probably easily have walked though.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Suze

I hardly go on buses if it can be helped, but ALWAYS give my seat up to others more needy when the need is there, to me that is just the right thing to do. When my two boys were young, I would rarely take them on the bus when they were below school age as I could tuck them up snugly in their pram/pushchair and walk a distance instead.

As Vicky points out, there are different circumstances that dictate who should be prioritised on buses, and I feel bad for you Vicky having to put up with some who treated you like that on the buses. There do seem to be some mothers who seem to come in packs on buses and who go between 1 to 3 stops, a distance it seems they could probably easily have walked though.

Unfortunately a lot of young mums today are lazy. They take things for granted and have a sense of entitlement, when actually they have no such entitlement. They should get over themselves and off their backsides. Those spaces were created for wheelchair users, not pushchairs.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It isn't just one time, many wheelchair users have experienced this problem and whilst a film crew were covering the recent court action there was an incident of a young women in a wheelchair trying to get on a bus and an empty buggy was in the wheelchair space whilst the mother was upstairs with her children.

Another woman was getting quite gobby to the wheelchair user and telling her to hurry up as she was holding up the bus. Some other idiot shouted out that he was late for work - how uncomfortable that poor girl must have felt. The bus driver should have insisted the woman come and fold her buggy or put it out of the bus. Disgraceful.

So yes, as per your previous post, it is an issue for wheelchair users.

I agree with you, Gob****es should be treated as such, priority space should be treated as such.. but a few examples in many years where this did not happen is the equivalant to about 0.001% of the time or less (actually way less than that doing the math), so I dont think a change is warranted. Its injustice, sure, and people will be punished.. I think thats the end of it, no? What more could anybody possibly suggest?

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

I agree with you, Gob****es should be treated as such, priority space should be treated as such.. but a few examples in many years where this did not happen is the equivalant to about 0.001% of the time or less (actually way less than that doing the math), so I dont think a change is warranted. Its injustice, sure, and people will be punished.. I think thats the end of it, no?

You think everyone who has this problem takes it to Court. Most just put up with it, but they shouldn't have to.

If you don't use a wheelchair then it isn't really your place to say a change isn't warranted. I would imagine those actually affected would disagree.

[Northern Monkey]

It's a tricky one.There is a bus route near me that i was on recently that is extremely busy at certain times.When i got on the whole bus was packed upstairs and downstairs.I had to stand and the driver kept letting people on.There was two pushchairs on and people standing front to back.If a wheelchair user had wanted to get on then half the people standing downstairs would've had to get off aswell as the mothers with pushchairs.So i think it should really depend on the circumstances.I don't think it's really workable to create strict rules on priority.It really should be left to common sense imo.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

You think everyone who has this problem takes it to Court. Most just put up with it, but they shouldn't have to.

If you don't use a wheelchair then it isn't really your place to say a change isn't warranted. I would imagine those actually affected would disagree.

You have no idea whether I use a wheelchair or not, and thats irrelevant. Dont put it on a public forum if you only want opinions from a certain group of people. I agree with you they shouldnt have to, its a good thing that very close to 100% never will.

[Vicky.]

The only 'change' that would make sense, is to have a specific wheelchair bay that cannot under any circumstances be used by anyone not in a wheelchair. This means no cramming extra people on the bus as some drivers do, no buggies can use it ever, no little old ladies with their shopping trolly things...nothing. Even then you have the issue of, its being occupied by a wheelchair user and another wheelchair user needs to get on.

And of course, doing this would mean that even more often than already happens, buses would drive straight past you...not through choice but by necessity. Unless money will be put into the bus services to put on extra transport, which I doubt.

All in all, this case and the outcome won't change anything. Entitled asshats will continue to be entitled asshats whilst the option is there.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

You have no idea whether I use a wheelchair or not, and thats irrelevant. Dont put it on a public forum if you only want opinions from a certain group of people. I agree with you they shouldnt have to, its a good thing that very close to 100% never will.

I did clearly say 'if you don't use a wheelchair' so no issue there then.

Good to hear you think hardly any disabled people experience this problem - nearly 100%. So you know better than the disabled themselves and the organisations supporting them. Reacon you do - not!

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

The only 'change' that would make sense, is to have a specific wheelchair bay that cannot under any circumstances be used by anyone not in a wheelchair. This means no cramming extra people on the bus as some drivers do, no buggies can use it ever, no little old ladies with their shopping trolly things...nothing. Even then you have the issue of, its being occupied by a wheelchair user and another wheelchair user needs to get on.

And of course, doing this would mean that even more often than already happens, buses would drive straight past you...not through choice but by necessity. Unless money will be put into the bus services to put on extra transport, which I doubt.

All in all, this case and the outcome won't change anything. Entitled asshats will continue to be entitled asshats whilst the option is there.

Maybe they could install a bar around the space to seal it off and that can only be accessed by a key which would be given to the wheelchair user when they get on the bus. That would stop all the ignorant idiots out there.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Maybe they could install a bar around the space to seal it off and that can only be accessed by a key which would be given to the wheelchair user when they get on the bus. That would stop all the ignorant idiots out there.

Yup indeed. A solution like this is an actual solution... But again, more funding needs to be given. Or prices need to rise again. Its already cheaper for 2 of us to get a taxi wherever we need to go than pay 2 bus tickets

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yup indeed. A solution like this is an actual solution... But again, more funding needs to be given. Or prices need to rise again. Its already cheaper for 2 of us to get a taxi wherever we need to go than pay 2 bus tickets

It is ridiculous - crap services for extortionate prices.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yup indeed. A solution like this is an actual solution... But again, more funding needs to be given. Or prices need to rise again. Its already cheaper for 2 of us to get a taxi wherever we need to go than pay 2 bus tickets

The problem is, unless its a London style taxi, most wheelchair users can't be accommodated, especially with the none fold up electric chairs.

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

It is ridiculous - crap services for extortionate prices.

Registered disabled are usually entitled to a free travel card which allows them to travel for free.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

I did clearly say 'if you don't use a wheelchair' so no issue there then.

Good to hear you think hardly any disabled people experience this problem - nearly 100%. So you know better than the disabled themselves and the organisations supporting them. Reacon you do - not!

I used the stats you provided me to determine it was nearly 100%. Stop presuming things about my personal life to further an argument, its weird and severely weakens yours.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

The problem is, unless its a London style taxi, most wheelchair users can't be accommodated, especially with the none fold up electric chairs.

Oh yes, its harder for those in wheelchairs to get around for sure.

The taxi moan was just me moaning about the ridiculous prices of bus travel these days No way should a taxi be cheaper than TWO single fares to somewhere.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Withano

I used the stats you provided me to determine it was nearly 100%. Stop presuming things about my personal life to further an argument, its weird and severely weakens yours.

Ditto!

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Maybe they could install a bar around the space to seal it off and that can only be accessed by a key which would be given to the wheelchair user when they get on the bus. That would stop all the ignorant idiots out there.

Instead of a key it could just scan their bus pass to unlock an electric lock.

The thing is though it could put pushchair users off using busses and drive() more of them to use cars.The green people wouldn't be happy about that.

[Brillopad]

Originally Posted by Northern Monkey

Instead of a key it could just scan their bus pass to unlock an electric lock.

The thing is though it could put pushchair users off using busses and drive() more of them to use cars.The green people wouldn't be happy about that.

Yes scanning via their bus pass would be even better.

Thing is there are a lot of Chavs that use the buses - loud ignorant people who don't give a damn about others. These people are the most likely to refuse to move their pushchairs. I think that those that can drive will do so anyway.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Brillopad

Yes scanning via their bus pass would be even better.

Thing is there are a lot of Chavs that use the buses - loud ignorant people who don't give a damn about others. These people are the most likely to refuse to move their pushchairs. I think that those that can drive will do so anyway.

Ukippers?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Ukippers?

its funny cos all the loud ignorant chavs from my school turned into ukippers, so probably.