[jaxie]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016...t-ever-rating/

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-39885792 Link added as relevant to discussion. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...itics-39856284

I've not seen anyone pick up on this so I thought I'd start a thread. It seems a pretty serious problem and although it's being said more money is going to spent, do you think that throwing money at education is the way to improve standards? I'm inclined to think an overhaul of the system is needed.

[Greg!]

More people from Scotland get into uni than any other part of the UK so they must be doing something right

[Denver]

Originally Posted by Greg!

More people from Scotland get into uni than any other part of the UK so they must be doing something right

They only go because it is free

[Kizzy]

You have to have the grades to go however remember, therefore how can the Schools be failing? Is this a ploy to expand free schools?.... most likely.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Greg!

More people from Scotland get into uni than any other part of the UK so they must be doing something right

I've not seen any statistics for that so I can't comment and don't feel it is particularly relevant since any such statistcs could include overseas students at Scottish Universities. Your apparent lack of concern for the children being failed is rather sad.

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You have to have the grades to go however remember, therefore how can the Schools be failing? Is this a ploy to expand free schools?.... most likely.

The Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) is a worldwide study by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) in member and non-member nations of 15-year-old school pupils' scholastic performance on mathematics, science, and reading. OECD is a European organisation. So I ask you, what possible motivation would they have to expand free schools?

[MTVN]

Not sure if more people in Scotland do go to university but it's certainly true that Scotland is the worst country in the UK for admitting kids from poorer backgrounds to uni

http://www.independent.co.uk/student...521.html%3Famp

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I've not seen any statistics for that so I can't comment and don't feel it is particularly relevant. Your apparent lack of concern for the children being failed is rather sad.

However he has taken the time to research and compare Scotland and England in relation to how many students go on to higher education so in relation to attainment it is wholly relevant and suggests that in reality it is children in the rest of the UK that are being failed.

However bad Scotland are doing, it's better than we are doing here, where then is the outrage for our failed English children?...

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I've not seen any statistics for that so I can't comment and don't feel it is particularly relevant. Your apparent lack of concern for the children being failed is rather sad.



The Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) is a worldwide study by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) in member and non-member nations of 15-year-old school pupils' scholastic performance on mathematics, science, and reading. OECD is a European organisation. So I ask you, what possible motivation would they have to expand free schools?

Pisa tests are flawed. They test 15 year olds (and a few other age groups) in irrelevant tests, in a few selected schools across the world
A 15 year old scot would not revise for this irrelevant test, its an important year for them to be focussing on other things like their gcses. Uk and usa never do well either. China, Japan, Shanghai etc always score the highest because they take these tests more seriously than the rest of the world, and they have less conflicting examinations at that age
A uk teacher should, and does, encourage pupils not to take it seriously.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I've not seen any statistics for that so I can't comment and don't feel it is particularly relevant. Your apparent lack of concern for the children being failed is rather sad.



The Programme for International Student Assessment (PISA) is a worldwide study by the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) in member and non-member nations of 15-year-old school pupils' scholastic performance on mathematics, science, and reading. OECD is a European organisation. So I ask you, what possible motivation would they have to expand free schools?

We for the moment are Europe, the motivation is outsourcing they are hacking away at local education authority control so they can reduce costs in teachers, resources and maintenance of schools.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

However he has taken the time to research and compare Scotland and England in relation to how many students go on to higher education so in relation to attainment it is wholly relevant and suggests that in reality it is children in the rest of the UK that are being failed.

However bad Scotland are doing, it's better than we are doing here, where then is the outrage for our failed English children?...

Oh has he, did I miss the link for that?

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

We for the moment are Europe, the motivation is outsourcing they are hacking away at local education authority control so they can reduce costs in teachers, resources and maintenance of schools.

Who are 'they' the EU?

[Withano]

No seriously guys, education shouldnt be measured by a pisa score, it means feck all
Children from uk are honestly encouraged to not revise or take it seriously.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Withano

Pisa tests are flawed. They test 15 year olds (and a few other age groups) in irrelevant tests, in a few selected schools across the world
A 15 year old scot would not revise for this irrelevant test, its an important year for them to be focussing on other things like their gcses. Uk and usa never do well either. China, Japan, Shanghai etc always score the highest because they take these tests more seriously than the rest of the world, and they have less conflicting examinations at that age
A uk teacher should, and does, encourage pupils not to take it seriously.

The point is rather that Scottish standards seem to have dropped significantly from the same tests of previous years.

The SNP seem concerned enough about it to state they are throwing more money into education.

On what do you base your claim that they shouldn't be taken seriously?

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Greg!

More people from Scotland get into uni than any other part of the UK so they must be doing something right

Originally Posted by Adam.

They only go because it is free

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You have to have the grades to go however remember, therefore how can the Schools be failing? Is this a ploy to expand free schools?.... most likely.

Many students who achieve University entry grades in England simply don't go as they can't afford it

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

The point is rather that Scottish standards seem to have dropped significantly from the same tests of previous years.

The SNP seem concerned enough about it to state they are throwing more money into education.

On what do you base your claim that they shouldn't be taken seriously?

15 year olds do not, and should not revise for pisa tests. They will continue to drop forever, I'm surprised the uk are still partaking in them.
Edit: I suppose the data might be interesting for other ages they test
15 year olds however should, and do, focus on their gcses

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Withano

15 year olds do not, and should not revise for pisa tests. They will continue to drop forever, I'm surprised the uk are still partaking in them.
Edit: I suppose the data might be interesting for other ages they test
15 year olds however should, and do, focus on their gcses

I say again, on what do you base your claims? You aren't showing me anything to say what you are saying is any kind of fact, for all I know it is just the world according to Withano.

[Kizzy]

Here is a link to the table of scores, just for a bit of perspective.

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...onal-oecd-pisa

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

I say again, on what do you base your claims? You aren't showing me anything to say what you are saying is any kind of fact, for all I know it is just the world according to Withano.

First hand experience. I was forced to take a pisa test lol. There was uproar from students, teachers, and parents, and we were told to not revise.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Withano

First hand experience. I was forced to take a pisa test lol. There was uproar from students, teachers, and parents, and we were told to not revise.

So that's at your school then. How can you assume it is the same everywhere or that children in other countries taking it do revise? If no one revises its still a balanced test of ability.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

So that's at your school then. How can you assume it is the same everywhere or that children in other countries taking it do revise? If no one revises its still a balanced test of ability.

Because common sense. A 15 year old has GCSEs to finish coursework in 10+ subjects at the age of 15, comparatively the age of 15 is a quiet year for education in some countries.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Here is a link to the table of scores, just for a bit of perspective.

https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...onal-oecd-pisa

We're 10 places ahead of ye

ETA That was just Maths excuse me.

Number 5 in reading, behind ye in Science though

[Withano]

UK education system isnt great, I feel like it came across that this was my point
Its not
My point is that PISA tests are a ridic way to test education especially at the age of 15

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Withano

UK education system isnt great, I feel like it came across that this was my point
Its not
My point is that PISA tests are a ridic way to test education especially at the age of 15

That's great but that's just your opinion unless you can back it up.

[Withano]

Originally Posted by jaxie

That's great but that's just your opinion unless you can back it up.

You're honestly asking me to back up the fact that kids, teachers, and parents care more for GCSEs than a PISA test? You're just being stubborn.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

First hand experience. I was forced to take a pisa test lol. There was uproar from students, teachers, and parents, and we were told to not revise.

I never even heard of that test before, I must ask my daughter if any of her class had to do one We have one called The Drumcondra test alright that all primary school students do once a year in English, Irish and maths but that's just a national thing