[LeatherTrumpet]

Its a cry we are familiar with from those in the Labour Party or on the extreme left but what substance does it have? Below are a list of some of our main public services to aid your decision. Remember that public sector workers are actually paid significantly better than their peers in the private sector and get longer holidays, shorter working hours, greater (or effectively total) job security and pension entitlements – which as a rule are considerably more generous.

So are public services in crisis or is blaming central government just a way to cover up poorly run services?

Courts
Electricity
Education, [e.g. state (public) schools, public universities, etc...]
Emergency services, (e.g. Fire, EMS, Law Enforcement, Search and Rescue, etc...)
Environmental protection
Health care (NHS)
Military
Postal service
Public bank
Public broadcasting
Public library
Public security
Public transportation
Social services, (e.g. public housing, social welfare, food subsidies, etc...)
Telecommunications
Urban planning
Transportation infrastructure (roads etc)
Waste management, (e.g. wastewater, solid waste, recycling, etc...)
Water supply network

[Marsh.]

Well I'd have said yes, but Starbucks coffee is bloody lovely so I'm unsure now.

[Cherie]

There is a lot of waste, a lot of sickness, working in the public sector has always been far easier than working in the private sector, mainly because its tax payers money so people are generally not bothered....I would always advise going into the public sector if you can workwise

[-Sue-]

We give so much money away that the hardworking tax payer fork out very little of which seems to help us! (the UK) amazingly it's not rare to see government say were making NHS cuts! closing libraries! closing youth clubs! we must cut police force!

Fore example In 2016, the UK spent Ł13.4 billion on overseas aid, in line with the 0.7% target.

^^^ imagine what a benefit that would have been within the UK!!!

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by -Sue-

We give so much money away that the hardworking tax payer fork out very little of which seems to help us! (the UK) amazingly it's not rare to see government say were making NHS cuts! closing libraries! closing youth clubs! we must cut police force!

Fore example In 2016, the UK spent Ł13.4 billion on overseas aid, in line with the 0.7% target.

^^^ imagine what a benefit that would have been within the UK!!!

Overseas aid often is an investment to garner trade within the donor country, like India. Its a sweetener to get UK business contracts

[Toy Soldier]

LT half of the things you have listed are mostly or entirely privatised... they're not government / public services . Get your head out of the 1980's man!



Courts

Couldn't say TBH I have no experience of the courts system


Electricity

Privatised and comparatively expensive


Education, [e.g. state (public) schools, public universities, etc...]

Pretty much a shambles, massively under-funded in recent years, miserable staff and constant cuts.


Emergency services, (e.g. Fire, EMS, Law Enforcement, Search and Rescue, etc...)

Suffering and under-funded, lots of strike action, not an attractive or competitive career path



Environmental protection





Health care (NHS)

Needs it's own thread tbqfh. I see a lot of people saying that it's fine because they;ve had recent good experiences with the NHS. This is entirely thanks to staff who are very committed to taking good care of their patients. It IS on it's knees. Staff are under insane amounts of pressure and things are getting worse. The fact that in most services, the staff manage to shield the public from the huge problems that the NHS is facing due to systematic and deliberate under-funding, is a credit to them. In some service areas things are genuinely horrendous for both staff and patients.

Military

Bigger than it needs to be and in my opinion, in need of systematic modernisation and a departure from Monarchy-Empire-based tradition.


Postal service

No longer a public service


Public bank

Improving since recession but mostly privatised?


Public broadcasting

Kill it with fire tbh.

Public library

Do they even still exist?


Public security

Non-police security is almost entirely privatised.


Public transportation

Mostly privatised, also shameful and getting worse, with cuts to councils meaning that local bus services (which were often subsidised) in many areas are all but non-existent at this point. Long train journeys, the trains can be decent quality. Commuter trains and pretty much all buses are clapped out and disgusting.

Social services, (e.g. public housing, social welfare, food subsidies, etc...)

Another one that needs it's own thread. The situation with social services in almost all areas of the UK isn't just bad... it's criminal / corrupt. Welfare to be honest isn't AWFUL and could so easily be mostly fixed with a few tweaks and less focus on punitive measures and cuts to the disabled. Universal Credit was a great system on paper but the implementation was incompetent to the point of disaster and is still in a huge mess.


Telecommunications

Again LT... Not a public service, telecoms is private. [edited to add] In this case I'm not saying that's a bad thing: telecoms is actually fairly decent (compared to most countries) and also is improving. It's also well priced in recent years, especially mobile telecoms, where most of the cost is basically the handset and if you go sim-only you can get unlimited everything practically free . If anything, BT's monopoly needs to CONTINUE to be dismantled. You could argue that other countries have better / faster cabled infrastructure HOWEVER - I personally think making massive upgrades there is a waste of time and money because super-fast broadband is eventually going to go completely over-the-air and cabled networking will be redundant.

Urban planning




Transportation infrastructure (roads etc)

Sliding, badly. Also very selective. If you live in an affluent / high council tax area councils bend over backwards to ensure the roads are decent. My village is one, the roads are immaculate... can't have all of the rich folks moving away because they keep damaging their landrovers after all. 7 miles down the road in the less-affluent villages? Actual footage of a bus avoiding a pothole:




There are also constant issues on the motorways.



Waste management, (e.g. wastewater, solid waste, recycling, etc...)

The sewerage and water systems are extensive and generally very well run, to be fair. Recycling facilities are decent, although apparently most of it is just getting dumped anyway . General household waste though? Getting worse and worse, we're down to 3-weekly here and possibly going to monthly. In the summer the problems with vermin / wasps / flies (and maggots) / smell are horrendous.

Water supply network

See above re: water and sewerage

[LeatherTrumpet]

many libraries still exist but naturally people get info from google now

[LeatherTrumpet]

Courts

Couldn't say TBH I have no experience of the courts system

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Courts

Couldn't say TBH I have no experience of the courts system

[LeatherTrumpet]

Public transport in Scotland is very good. Every time I get a train I am impressed with how clean and punctual it is

[Marsh.]

Mock is still on the streets so the courts system is obviously a bloody mess.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Mock is still on the streets so the courts system is obviously a bloody mess.

lol, there is no way he isnt banged up and posting on an old Nokia he hides in his anus

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Public transport in Scotland is very good. Every time I get a train I am impressed with how clean and punctual it is

It's privatised tho! And yes to be fair, local trains in Scotland are much better than England... which are wildly inconsistent even on the same journey. Sometimes it'll be a "normal" train like you'd get in Scotland, other times I swear they practically have wooden seats, and are absolutely covered top to bottom in graffiti and chewing gum .

The main problem though is the price. For me + the fam to go to Glasgow is Ł35 return on the train, and that's from a station 8 miles away... with a bus service that only runs every 2 hours... so we would have to drive to the station anyway or get a taxi costing another Ł10. When we can easily get to Glasgow and back on Ł20 petrol . Probably less. Is a public transport system really effective when driving is ALWAYS both more convenient... and cheaper? Local bus is even more ridiculous: Ł16 return for the 4 of us to get to town and back! It's about Ł3 in petrol

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

LT half of the things you have listed are mostly or entirely privatised... they're not government / public services . Get your head out of the 1980's man!



Courts

Couldn't say TBH I have no experience of the courts system


Electricity

Privatised and comparatively expensive


Education, [e.g. state (public) schools, public universities, etc...]

Pretty much a shambles, massively under-funded in recent years, miserable staff and constant cuts.


Emergency services, (e.g. Fire, EMS, Law Enforcement, Search and Rescue, etc...)

Suffering and under-funded, lots of strike action, not an attractive or competitive career path



Environmental protection





Health care (NHS)

Needs it's own thread tbqfh. I see a lot of people saying that it's fine because they;ve had recent good experiences with the NHS. This is entirely thanks to staff who are very committed to taking good care of their patients. It IS on it's knees. Staff are under insane amounts of pressure and things are getting worse. The fact that in most services, the staff manage to shield the public from the huge problems that the NHS is facing due to systematic and deliberate under-funding, is a credit to them. In some service areas things are genuinely horrendous for both staff and patients.

Military

Bigger than it needs to be and in my opinion, in need of systematic modernisation and a departure from Monarchy-Empire-based tradition.


Postal service

No longer a public service


Public bank

Improving since recession but mostly privatised?


Public broadcasting

Kill it with fire tbh.

Public library

Do they even still exist?


Public security

Non-police security is almost entirely privatised.


Public transportation

Mostly privatised, also shameful and getting worse, with cuts to councils meaning that local bus services (which were often subsidised) in many areas are all but non-existent at this point. Long train journeys, the trains can be decent quality. Commuter trains and pretty much all buses are clapped out and disgusting.

Social services, (e.g. public housing, social welfare, food subsidies, etc...)

Another one that needs it's own thread. The situation with social services in almost all areas of the UK isn't just bad... it's criminal / corrupt. Welfare to be honest isn't AWFUL and could so easily be mostly fixed with a few tweaks and less focus on punitive measures and cuts to the disabled. Universal Credit was a great system on paper but the implementation was incompetent to the point of disaster and is still in a huge mess.


Telecommunications

Again LT... Not a public service, telecoms is private. [edited to add] In this case I'm not saying that's a bad thing: telecoms is actually fairly decent (compared to most countries) and also is improving. It's also well priced in recent years, especially mobile telecoms, where most of the cost is basically the handset and if you go sim-only you can get unlimited everything practically free . If anything, BT's monopoly needs to CONTINUE to be dismantled. You could argue that other countries have better / faster cabled infrastructure HOWEVER - I personally think making massive upgrades there is a waste of time and money because super-fast broadband is eventually going to go completely over-the-air and cabled networking will be redundant.

Urban planning




Transportation infrastructure (roads etc)

Sliding, badly. Also very selective. If you live in an affluent / high council tax area councils bend over backwards to ensure the roads are decent. My village is one, the roads are immaculate... can't have all of the rich folks moving away because they keep damaging their landrovers after all. 7 miles down the road in the less-affluent villages? Actual footage of a bus avoiding a pothole:




There are also constant issues on the motorways.



Waste management, (e.g. wastewater, solid waste, recycling, etc...)

The sewerage and water systems are extensive and generally very well run, to be fair. Recycling facilities are decent, although apparently most of it is just getting dumped anyway . General household waste though? Getting worse and worse, we're down to 3-weekly here and possibly going to monthly. In the summer the problems with vermin / wasps / flies (and maggots) / smell are horrendous.

Water supply network

See above re: water and sewerage

A cracking, accurate but fair post.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's privatised tho! And yes to be fair, local trains in Scotland are much better than England... which are wildly inconsistent even on the same journey. Sometimes it'll be a "normal" train like you'd get in Scotland, other times I swear they practically have wooden seats, and are absolutely covered top to bottom in graffiti and chewing gum .

The main problem though is the price. For me + the fam to go to Glasgow is Ł35 return on the train, and that's from a station 8 miles away... with a bus service that only runs every 2 hours... so we would have to drive to the station anyway or get a taxi costing another Ł10. When we can easily get to Glasgow and back on Ł20 petrol . Probably less. Is a public transport system really effective when driving is ALWAYS both more convenient... and cheaper? Local bus is even more ridiculous: Ł16 return for the 4 of us to get to town and back! It's about Ł3 in petrol

me and smallest boy LT can get to glasgow and back for Ł13 with a railcard and the underground is cheap as chips

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

me and smallest boy LT can get to glasgow and back for Ł13 with a railcard and the underground is cheap as chips

The underground reminds me of the first time I went to University (I was at Glasgow Uni for 5 months when I was 18, in the midst of my parents separating and my mum descending into alcoholism) so I get triggered . The smell of it makes me feel like a lost little boy! And that waft of warm air from the tunnel as the train is arriving. Actual PTSD or something .

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

The underground reminds me of the first time I went to University (I was at Glasgow Uni for 5 months when I was 18, in the midst of my parents separating and my mum descending into alcoholism) so I get triggered . The smell of it makes me feel like a lost little boy! And that waft of warm air from the tunnel as the train is arriving. Actual PTSD or something .

I only ever go on the clockwork orange to Ibrox and have been going on it since it was moderinsed in 1980 or so. All I associate it with is the smell of alcohol and people banging on the roof of a packed cab singing "wur up tae oor knees in Fenian blood, surrender or yool die"

so i guess its up to its knees rather than on them

[Livia]

I do have concerns about the armed forces. We currently have the smallest standing army, I want to say ever. General Sir Richard Barrons, ex Chief of Join Forces Command said, “Capability that is foundational to all major armed forces has been withered by design.

“There is a sense that modern conflict is ordained to be only as small and as short term as we want to afford, and that is absurd.

“The failure to come to terms with this will not matter at all if we are lucky in the way the world happens to turn out, but it could matter a very great deal if even a few of the risks now at large conspire against the UK.”

If you want peace, you must prepare for war, and at a time when Russia is announcing that they have the mother of all atomic weapons, while people are twitching about the return of the Cold War (after having now removed the British Army of the Rhine from Germany) and while there is a serious risk of Corbyn getting in and scrapping Trident and reducing our forces even further, I worry for the future safety and security of the country. And let's not forget, we went into WW2 after a huge disarmament project left us with a small standing army and little else.

[Toy Soldier]

Originally Posted by Livia

I do have concerns about the armed forces. We currently have the smallest standing army, I want to say ever. General Sir Richard Barrons, ex Chief of Join Forces Command said, “Capability that is foundational to all major armed forces has been withered by design.

“There is a sense that modern conflict is ordained to be only as small and as short term as we want to afford, and that is absurd.

“The failure to come to terms with this will not matter at all if we are lucky in the way the world happens to turn out, but it could matter a very great deal if even a few of the risks now at large conspire against the UK.”

If you want peace, you must prepare for war, and at a time when Russia is announcing that they have the mother of all atomic weapons, while people are twitching about the return of the Cold War (after having now removed the British Army of the Rhine from Germany) and while there is a serious risk of Corbyn getting in and scrapping Trident and reducing our forces even further, I worry for the future safety and security of the country. And let's not forget, we went into WW2 after a huge disarmament project left us with a small standing army and little else.

To be fair, though, isn't this sort of the point? War has changed; a standing army is worthless in the face of nuclear weapons, and all of the major powers have them now. A large-scale conflict involving ground troops like WW2 will never happen again. So that leaves the sort of small, tactics-based conflicts we've seen for the last 30 years... and a LARGE army isn't really necessary for those, either. An effective military force is now down to having the best tech and equipment, not the most feet in boots.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

To be fair, though, isn't this sort of the point? War has changed; a standing army is worthless in the face of nuclear weapons, and all of the major powers have them now. A large-scale conflict involving ground troops like WW2 will never happen again. So that leaves the sort of small, tactics-based conflicts we've seen for the last 30 years... and a LARGE army isn't really necessary for those, either. An effective military force is now down to having the best tech and equipment, not the most feet in boots.

Well, yes... that's the excuses that are being given for the cuts to the military. But the military themselves, while they agree that warfare has changed, and that a massive army is no longer needed, a standing army of less than 80,000, when they are called on for all kinds of stuff is just not big enough. When the Fire Service go on strike for instance, or when the security at a major sporting event like the Olympics goes tits up, who you gonna call? When the ebola crisis started, the Royal Navy were the first people there, followed by the British Army. And the humanitarian and peacekeeping work they do, which often goes unreported because it's not controversial, is going to be hard to automatise. Furthermore, the government is trying to fill the gaps by making the Territorial Army bigger, and involving them now where only regular troops may previously have gone. Part-timers, while I don't want to diminish their great contribution, are not the same a regular soldiers.

So in conclusion, I do kind of agree that a massive standing army is no longer required, but we've gone too far the other way. The people making the cuts are civilians, with all the reasons why a smaller army is okay. But the military themselves say something else entirely. I do have a little hope in the latest Minister for Defence, even though he seems kind of young for the job, seems to be quite keen to allow our armed forces both the equipment and the manpower needed to do the job we ask of them.

[DemolitionRed]

Anyone who believes we are better off with a private healthcare system shouldn't only take a look at the costs but consider, even if they can afford an all singing dancing insurance policy, they may find the exemptions incurred over a period of years a very real problem.

Anyone who believes the NHS can't work need to do some research into what's gone on and what is still going on behind the dark doors of parliament. Neolib thinkers like May, Cameron, Johnson, Mogg and Blair want a Mont Pelerin Society where the less responsibility a government has, the better. At first it was easy, but now the public are becoming suspicious and voices are being raised.
Regarding the NHS, we have been hoodwinked to a point of no return. As our children grow older they simply won't have the same privilege's around health as we've had and I find that tragic.

[LeatherTrumpet]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

Anyone who believes we are better off with a private healthcare system shouldn't only take a look at the costs but consider, even if they can afford an all singing dancing insurance policy, they may find the exemptions incurred over a period of years a very real problem.

Anyone who believes the NHS can't work need to do some research into what's gone on and what is still going on behind the dark doors of parliament. Neolib thinkers like May, Cameron, Johnson, Mogg and Blair want a Mont Pelerin Society where the less responsibility a government has, the better. At first it was easy, but now the public are becoming suspicious and voices are being raised.
Regarding the NHS, we have been hoodwinked to a point of no return. As our children grow older they simply won't have the same privilege's around health as we've had and I find that tragic.

The thread isnt about that its about whether you think public services in the UK are on their knees or not

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Mock is still on the streets so the courts system is obviously a bloody mess.

give me time..

[DemolitionRed]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The thread isnt about that its about whether you think public services in the UK are on their knees or not

The NHS are very deliberately on their knees. Sorry you didn't understand that.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by DemolitionRed

The NHS are very deliberately on their knees. Sorry you didn't understand that.

The NHS has been in trouble for awhile sadly, hopefully some MP's will rise through the ranks and sort the NHS out.