Little things that really irritate you.

[Thotmas]

Person to black girl with natural hair- "why don't you relax your hair? It looks unkempt. You'd look better with straight hair and it's easier to manage or wear wig or extensions" Black girl straightens hair. "She's trying to be white omg. Why do you wear weave? Wear your natural hair" black women can never win :rolleyes:

[Livia]

Perhaps the black girl should tell whoever it is giving her hair tips to mind their own bloody business.

[Thotmas]

Perhaps the black girl should tell whoever it is giving her hair tips to mind their own bloody business.

It's not always that simple. Do you know some women have been sacked for wearing their hair in natural state? ( Afro, kinky) :facepalm:

[Livia]

It's not always that simple. Do you know some women have been sacked for wearing their hair in natural state? ( Afro, kinky) :facepalm:

That's the kind of nonsense that tribunals are for.

I have honestly never heard any black girl I know say they've been asked to change their hair. In fact, all of the black girls I know would tell the person asking them to do one.

[Thotmas]

That's the kind of nonsense that tribunals are for.

I have honestly never heard any black girl I know say they've been asked to change their hair. In fact, all of the black girls I know would tell the person asking them to do one.

Here are cases where some women did take it to tribunal.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3332315/Woman-claims-job-offer-withdrawn-BRAIDS.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3499405/Black-waitress-quits-job-sent-home-manager-wearing-hair-naturally.html
http://www.clutchmagonline.com/2015/09/women-fired-for-their-hairstyles. I guess taking them to tribunal is a way of telling them to do one but not everyone always has the courage to do that

[Thotmas]

Tired. My eyes hurt :(

[Livia]

Flies... arghhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.... The farmer who owns the field next to my house has dumped a load of manure ready to spread it on the ground and the place is alive with flies. Disgusting things.... I have fly screens up and they still get in here.

[Thotmas]

Isn't Josie Marsh embarrassed to milk that lipstick on teeth thing and Holly not telling her? :conf: of all the things to be milking ? :conf:

[Marsh.]

of all the things to be milking ? :conf:

When in the company of Holly Willoughby too. :smug:

[Thotmas]

^^ :laugh:



Clint Eastwood is dead to me.

[ChristmasNeeve]

^^ :laugh:



Clint Eastwood is dead to me.

Why? :laugh:

[Ammi]

..*is quickly googling Clint Eastwood gossip..*...

[Ammi]

..oh, he's backing Donald Trump, CeeCee..?...

[ChristmasNeeve]

Oh Dear

[Thotmas]

He said "get over Trumps racist comments (get over racism in general the ones complaining about racism :rolleyes:) This is a pussy generation. When I was growing up we didn't call it racism" because segregation and lynching was the norm duh. You were born in the 30s:fist:

[Ammi]

He said "get over Trumps racist comments (get over racism in general the ones complaining about racism :rolleyes:) This is a pussy generation. When I was growing up we didn't call it racism" because segregation and lynching was the norm duh. You were born in the 30s:fist:

...now I think about it, it's a bit strange how he went around shooting all of those Mexicans in the spaghetti westerns as well...it's all so obvious now what his intentions were..:fist:....

[Ammi]

He said "get over Trumps racist comments (get over racism in general the ones complaining about racism :rolleyes:) This is a pussy generation. When I was growing up we didn't call it racism" because segregation and lynching was the norm duh. You were born in the 30s:fist:

..I'll read what he actually said in a bit, I haven't had the chance to read yet, just saw the headline bit but I will...

[Thotmas]

^^ay least as a fellow racist he admits Trump is racist. I'm tired of people saying Trump isn't racist. It's sad but not surprised giving the time Clint grew up. I think John Wayne was one that was unapolegtically racist. But I'm not telling my mum cause she loved him. She doesn't watch his films anymore anyway so I'll leave it :hee:

[ChristmasNeeve]

He said "get over Trumps racist comments (get over racism in general the ones complaining about racism :rolleyes:) This is a pussy generation. When I was growing up we didn't call it racism" because segregation and lynching was the norm duh. You were born in the 30s:fist:

wow, he's an old dinosaur anyway

[Thotmas]

Beautiful Normani from fifth harmony quitting Twitter due to racist trolls. You're beautiful my darling, and fierce :kiss:

[Jamie89]

Beautiful Normani from fifth harmony quitting Twitter due to racist trolls. You're beautiful my darling, and fierce :kiss:

I'm not on Twitter but I feel like I'm always hearing about how they're 'cracking down' on trolling etc... it's amazing to me that it's so bad for some people still that they're having to quit it, how can it be so difficult for them to 'delete' trolls idgi :mad:

[Thotmas]

I'm not on Twitter but I feel like I'm always hearing about how they're 'cracking down' on trolling etc... it's amazing to me that it's so bad for some people still that they're having to quit it, how can it be so difficult for them to 'delete' trolls idgi :mad:

Some people make several accounts or they do it in groups. Even if the trolls don't know each other, social media shows you a lot of people have similar thoughts so it's not hard for the cocackroaches to come out in streams to harass someone.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Twitter seems like a breeding ground for horrible arseholes, If I were a celebrity I'd stay well away from it. I stay well away from it now but even more so if I were famous

[Livia]

Twitter seems like a breeding ground for horrible arseholes, If I were a celebrity I'd stay well away from it. I stay well away from it now but even more so if I were famous

Agreed. I don't understand Twitter. It seems to be there purely for the stupidest, most hateful people in society to have somewhere to vent their poison.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Agreed. I don't understand Twitter. It seems to be there purely for the stupidest, most hateful people in society to have somewhere to vent their poison.

yup

[Kizzy]

Not knowing how to tile...it's just squares of stuff ffs! why does it seem so hard? :bawling:

[kirklancaster]

...now I think about it, it's a bit strange how he went around shooting all of those Mexicans in the spaghetti westerns as well...it's all so obvious now what his intentions were..:fist:....


https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQYUyIcgf99_3l05pukGdPM1WiWJQFaH KF90vM0WJKoRzF9lwRVUQ

https://encrypted-tbn3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSmF4OnaQr84Gyo_wLCahKuR6uMbsVPO F9JY2nXiln-OQ0VuHvr

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQXBPXj-zA-Cx3zRYuXU7Rj2ncJNi-GDhzJqL0bvcCF3oasqIuJsw
"I don't really know lovee"

[kirklancaster]

Not knowing how to tile...it's just squares of stuff ffs! why does it seem so hard? :bawling:

It really is a lot easier than you may think. Do you want me to pm you an 'How To' Kizzy?

[Thotmas]

Not knowing how to tile...it's just squares of stuff ffs! why does it seem so hard? :bawling:

Aw bless. :laugh:





If my parents didn't move 110 times I would have been Simone Biles. I was doing all that gymnast and I could backflip and do the centre split with my forehead hitting the floor :bawling: Then we kept moving and I said sod it :bawling:

[Thotmas]

Agreed. I don't understand Twitter. It seems to be there purely for the stupidest, most hateful people in society to have somewhere to vent their poison.

Social media is the worst thing to ever happen. It has made everything worst.

[Thotmas]

I wish rappers would stop using ***** in their songs because racists are too thick to get the difference between that and the other one. This one ending in a probably began as a variation of the more painful when racist ***** were keeping them shackled and hanged them. Now when there's an article about a racist public figure I have to hear "so black people use all the time in their songs." Thick *****. So it's fair game to be racists.

[Livia]

I don't have a problem with rappers using the N word. Black people have owned the word and earned the right to say it. Anyone who doesn't understand that is an idiot.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Aw bless. :laugh:





If my parents didn't move 110 times I would have been Simone Biles. I was doing all that gymnast and I could backflip and do the centre split with my forehead hitting the floor :bawling: Then we kept moving and I said sod it :bawling:

Oh I saw a video of her today on FB, I'd never heard of her before (not really an Olympics fan) but she's amazing, I wish I could do s**t like that

[Jamie89]

Oh I saw a video of her today on FB, I'd never heard of her before (not really an Olympics fan) but she's amazing, I wish I could s**t like that

D:

[ChristmasNeeve]

D:

omg that's the funniest typo ever, I actually thought you'd edited my quote :facepalm:

****ting is an Olympic sport now :hehe:

[LukeB]

omg Niamh :joker:

[Jamie89]

omg that's the funniest typo ever, I actually thought you'd edited my quote :facepalm:

****ting is an Olympic sport now :hehe:
Videos like that should be banned on FB :nono: :joker:

[ChristmasNeeve]

Videos like that should be banned on FB :nono: :joker:

it was a typoo rather than a typo

[Jamie89]

it was a typoo rather than a typo
Lmao I'm embarrassed at how funny I found that :joker: :shame:

[ChristmasNeeve]

Lmao I'm embarrassed at how funny I found that :joker: :shame:

https://media.giphy.com/media/3i7zenReaUuI0/giphy.gif

[Thotmas]

My neighbour has annoyed me 3 nights in a row by slamming the doors hard so I am currently converting her into an avenged sevenfold fan with my sound system. :)




I just can't stand slamming doors...such a pet peeve...god help the man that will live with me and slam doors on a consistent basis...:)

[Thotmas]

Now she's taking some Slipknot and she's going to take it well :devil:

[Thotmas]

Bad nail jobs

[Thotmas]

Naked attraction-stunning black girl, stunning petite body waist to hips ratio.Black man compliments 2 rough looking white girls with fat toes, ingrown hair and fat minge, gets to black girl she has the same skin as mine-dumps her lol wow. What a good time to be a white girl. Well when hasn't it been :joker:

[Ammi]

Naked attraction-stunning black girl, stunning petite body waist to hips ratio.Black man compliments 2 rough looking white girls with fat toes, ingrown hair and fat minge, gets to black girl she has the same skin as mine-dumps her lol wow. What a good time to be a white girl. Well when hasn't it been :joker:

...is this a real life thing or a TV series, CeeCee..?...

[Ammi]

Now she's taking some Slipknot and she's going to take it well :devil:

...:laugh:..I like your style, lady..:love:..although I never slammed doors and I had to take that Slipknot anway from my eldest son for many years../that slit your wrists music...

Bad nail jobs

...acrylics, is it..?...

[ChristmasNeeve]

Naked attraction-stunning black girl, stunning petite body waist to hips ratio.Black man compliments 2 rough looking white girls with fat toes, ingrown hair and fat minge, gets to black girl she has the same skin as mine-dumps her lol wow. What a good time to be a white girl. Well when hasn't it been :joker:

Fat minge? what on Earth are you watching? :laugh2:

[LukeB]

Omg at fat minge :joker:

[Thotmas]

^^^ lol

...is this a real life thing or a TV series, CeeCee..?...

Fat minge? what on Earth are you watching? :laugh2:

Yes it's a tv show. Don't tell me you guys haven't watched the phenomenon that is Naked attraction? :shocked:
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/naked-attraction/on-demand/63570-001

It's dating in reverse. One singleton comes in and they have 5 to select from behind a screen. Little by little the screen raises and they judge them on yes their naked bits. The host asks them all sorts about the cocks and minges before them and whether they like it. First round if they didn't like your cock or minge or thighs, you're out. It keeps going until 2 are left then the singleton gets naked so the chosen can see them naked. Quality TV.

[Thotmas]

Ammi it wasn't acrylics it was just color. :facepalm:

.................................................. ...............

The big white spider that's been harassing me for 2 days, hanging outside my kitchen window, daring me to open that window-staring at me. Go away. Need to let some air in :bawling:

[ChristmasNeeve]

^^^ lol





Yes it's a tv show. Don't tell me you guys haven't watched the phenomenon that is Naked attraction? :shocked:
http://www.channel4.com/programmes/naked-attraction/on-demand/63570-001

It's dating in reverse. One singleton comes in and they have 5 to select from behind a screen. Little by little the screen raises and they judge them on yes their naked bits. The host asks them all sorts about the cocks and minges before them and whether they like it. First round if they didn't like your cock or minge or thighs, you're out. It keeps going until 2 are left then the singleton gets naked so the chosen can see them naked. Quality TV.

omg that sounds horrific :o

[Ammi]

...^^^..Naked Attraction..:laugh:...

[Thotmas]

Show is so bad it's good. People can't stop watching. :laugh:

............................
Spider is gone. But i'm not opening that window don't trust her. I know she's waiting at the side waiting for me to open the window then come at me like-
http://i67.tinypic.com/5a13z5.jpg

Never opening that window again :nono:

[Alf]

Supermarkets that don't sell Romany cream biscuits.

[Ammi]

Show is so bad it's good. People can't stop watching. :laugh:

............................
Spider is gone. But i'm not opening that window don't trust her. I know she's waiting at the side waiting for me to open the window then come at me like-
http://i67.tinypic.com/5a13z5.jpg

Never opening that window again :nono:



..but what if she's trying to starve you from fresh air, CeeCee and her aim is for you to never open the window again...what if she's gone off to claim another victim and prevent them from fresh air now, in the comfort that she's won with you ....why don't you show her and open that window and let the beautiful air in, don't let her win CeeCee, show her who the mama is....

[Ammi]

..she's probably just been having a peek through the window at Naked Attractions as well.../saucy little spider lady...

[Thotmas]

..but what if she's trying to starve you from fresh air, CeeCee and her aim is for you to never open the window again...what if she's gone off to claim another victim and prevent them from fresh air now, in the comfort that she's won with you ....why don't you show her and open that window and let the beautiful air in, don't let her win CeeCee, show her who the mama is....

Fine. But if I die I will come back to haunt you. :hmph:

[Thotmas]

Lou Pearlman who discovered Backstreet boys, Nsync and Otown is dead in jail-I don't care though he possibly molested Nick Carter :shrug:

[ChristmasNeeve]

]Show is so bad it's good. People can't stop watching[/B]. :laugh:

............................
Spider is gone. But i'm not opening that window don't trust her. I know she's waiting at the side waiting for me to open the window then come at me like-
http://i67.tinypic.com/5a13z5.jpg

Never opening that window again :nono:

But why would people ever apply for it? :/

[Merry Mockmas]

Feeling anxious.

[Thotmas]

Who tells someone they eat a lot then asks them out for a drink? :shocked:

Ladies, if there are signs earlier on that he'd be a judgmental don't do it :nono:

[Ammi]

Who tells someone they eat a lot then asks them out for a drink? :shocked:

Ladies, if there are signs earlier on that he'd be a judgmental don't do it :nono:

..that wouldn't make sense though CeeCee, my love..alcohol is high in calories/general higher than foods so it's probably not what he's inferring in asking you for a drink and not judging what you eat...so many guys love to see females enjoying their food in this old age of 'thinness' etc and media pressures...(it may be though..)...that he's thinking...hmmmm, I don't know how the date will go/will we have stuff in common/will the conversation flow and glow etc..so thinking just a drink date leaves it open for a shorter date than sitting through a meal, if it were in any way awkward and you both didn't connect etc...don't judge him my lovely and go and see how it goes, this could be the guy of your dreams...at the very least, it's a few hours with someone/having conversation and getting to know them..?...off you go, shooo..:love:....

[Ammi]

Feeling anxious.

...Mock..:hug:...

[Thotmas]

..that wouldn't make sense though CeeCee, my love..alcohol is high in calories/general higher than foods so it's probably not what he's inferring in asking you for a drink and not judging what you eat...so many guys love to see females enjoying their food in this old age of 'thinness' etc and media pressures...(it may be though..)...that he's thinking...hmmmm, I don't know how the date will go/will we have stuff in common/will the conversation flow and glow etc..so thinking just a drink date leaves it open for a shorter date than sitting through a meal, if it were in any way awkward and you both didn't connect etc...don't judge him my lovely and go and see how it goes, this could be the guy of your dreams...at the very least, it's a few hours with someone/having conversation and getting to know them..?...off you go, shooo..:love:....

sigh

[Thotmas]

Wow Kanye put a black woman in his video...did you die Kanye? :laugh:


Anyways Teyanas body :amazed:

[Thotmas]

Might be going insane. Just talked to a popcorn like it was a real person. I poured popcorn into a bowl, one fell out and I was like'' go on and procreate my friend. Should I give you a female mate to procreate with or should you go on an adventure? No go on an adventure. Find your mate and save the species. Then I burst into a song about adventure.'' :conf: Or maybe i've been insane because I do this with cutlery too to be honest :conf:

[Ammi]

....hawww, if you're insane then you're beautiful insane, CeeCee...oh to be crazy like you...:lovedup:...

[Yuki Maru Hoshi]

I almost died when the DMV lady forgot to give me back my ID.... the lines to get paperwork and things like that done here. are. forever. Morning to close, no joke. You'd think you were there for a door buster with the super long lines wrapping the building at opening.

I would rather drive an hour out of town than to go to the DMV than go there for something serious. I thought I dropped it in the parking lot because I ran across dodging the torrential rains trying to get back to my car. Soaking wet, fumbling through my disorganized purse and not being able to find my id... yeah I would say really irritated is a great description.

[Thotmas]

....hawww, if you're insane then you're beautiful insane, CeeCee...oh to be crazy like you...:lovedup:...

Ammi stop, you're the beautiful one :nono: :hee:


.................................................
http://i67.tinypic.com/qzg1g0.jpg
http://i66.tinypic.com/14lk4n5.jpg
http://i68.tinypic.com/2hxafs4.jpg
https://mic.com/articles/152924/pretoria-girls-high-school-students-are-protesting-racist-hair-policy-code-of-conduct#.XOfdIYLiG
You fight the fight my beautiful young black girls. You live in the land of NELSON MANDELA, don't let racist teachers tell you that you look like a monkey and that you should relax your hair. Wear your crown with pride.

[Livia]

When you ignore someone because they've been unreasonable... and they continue to reply to your posts.

[ChristmasNeeve]

When you ignore someone because they've been unreasonable... and they continue to reply to your posts.

Sorry about that :hee:

[Livia]

Sorry about that :hee:

This made me blurt out laughing. My cat thinks I've lost it... and it's your fault.

[ChristmasNeeve]

This made me blurt out laughing. My cat thinks I've lost it... and it's your fault.

what a catastrophe

[Thotmas]

Wow Kanye put a black woman in his video...did you die Kanye? :laugh:


Anyways Teyanas body :amazed:

And back to business for Kanye. Twitter ad asking for MULTICULTURAL women only. TWITTER you know, everyone has to KNOW he's over the dark skin. Phew. Must've been itching and having screaming nightmares for putting a dark skinned in his video. Glad that's over http://i64.tinypic.com/23r2hv.gif

https://twitter.com/kanyewest/status/772166483023687680/photo/1

[Thotmas]

Losing a lot of blood and asking if you had less than 6 months to eat what would you do. ''eat all the junk in the world and whack out a quick scheme to earn millions so you can leave it to your loved ones''

[Thotmas]

Can't take stageschool seriously...especially if they're just going to put the black girl in the background of every scene for diversity purposes but not actually give her a storyline...a bit like vanderpump rules. There's a black girl there that never gets a look in but the staff seem to like her

[Merry Mockmas]

Can't take stageschool seriously...especially if they're just going to put the black girl in the background of every scene for diversity purposes but not actually give her a storyline...a bit like vanderpump rules. There's a black girl there that never gets a look in but the staff seem to like her

The problem with shows like Stage School is that they're suppose to be Reality Shows yet are so blatantly scripted that it's insulting.

[Thotmas]

The problem with shows like Stage School is that they're suppose to be Reality Shows yet are so blatantly scripted that it's insulting.

It's so bad. They should cut out the singing. This would have been interesting if it was real students.

[Thotmas]

My stomach is killing :bawling:

[Ammi]

Losing a lot of blood and asking if you had less than 6 months to eat what would you do. ''eat all the junk in the world and whack out a quick scheme to earn millions so you can leave it to your loved ones''

...did you lose a lot of blood/did you have an accident, CeeCee..?...:hug:..

[Thotmas]

When your ex dates someone that looks like you :rolleyes:

[Thotmas]

When a thread is in a forum for ages but then only moves straight after you've posted on it :rolleyes:

[Thotmas]

Spending all nighty reading up on the West Memphis 3 so now I got 3 hours to sleep if I succeed.

This is the true story about 3 boys that spend 18 years in prison for a crime they supposedly didn't do because now they have been released. Only one of the boys was put on death row because he was over 18. 3 little boys, sweet souls, were bound, one was castrated and they were murdered in 1993. It was a small town so because those 3 jailed boys stood out as being in a satanic cult they are made the scapegoat. A documentary was released in 1996 about this and it got them Hollywood support from Johnny Depp, Marilyn Manson, Eddie Veter. Since technology advantaged they did DNA testing in the late 90s and one of the murdered boys stepfather's hair was found at the scene. He's not been convicted though because of alibi but many people believe he did it including the boys who were jailed. Sigh amongst this publicity seems people forgot who really matter- the murdered boys. I hope they see justice, one of the mums is still fighting for it
__________________

[ChristmasNeeve]

Spending all nighty reading up on the West Memphis 3 so now I got 3 hours to sleep if I succeed.

This is the true story about 3 boys that spend 18 years in prison for a crime they supposedly didn't do because now they have been released. Only one of the boys was put on death row because he was over 18. 3 little boys, sweet souls, were bound, one was castrated and they were murdered in 1993. It was a small town so because those 3 jailed boys stood out as being in a satanic cult they are made the scapegoat. A documentary was released in 1996 about this and it got them Hollywood support from Johnny Depp, Marilyn Manson, Eddie Veter. Since technology advantaged they did DNA testing in the late 90s and one of the murdered boys stepfather's hair was found at the scene. He's not been convicted though because of alibi but many people believe he did it including the boys who were jailed. Sigh amongst this publicity seems people forgot who really matter- the murdered boys. I hope they see justice, one of the mums is still fighting for it
__________________

Eddie Vedder? My cat is named after him :flutter:


I never heard that story though? I must look it up later. This is a good reason why the death penalty is wrong though, one innocent life is too much to risk imo

[armand.kay]

It's so bad. They should cut out the singing. This would have been interesting if it was real students.

Stage school is actually a mess like I'm a fan of the hills, towie, MIC type shows and even though those shows are set up you can still see some thruth in their story lines and the people are somewhat relatable. Stageschool just seems scripted through and through like they have their own pantomime type bitch and all lol. And the way it's produced too like they're desperate to give it this mocumentary feel to it.

[Thotmas]

^^I agree with all you said.


Eddie Vedder? My cat is named after him :flutter:


I never heard that story though? I must look it up later. This is a good reason why the death penalty is wrong though, one innocent life is too much to risk imo

Please do it's so interesting. Deciding whether the boys were actually guilty or not is still a big debate though amongst a lot of people although the majority believe they didn't do it. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence against them, and 2 of the dead boys fathers. One of the boys mother was skeptical of her husband and 3 years later she was dead. People say he killed her because she knew the truth. Her death is 'undetermined' til this day.

[ChristmasNeeve]

^^I agree with all you said.




Please do it's so interesting. Deciding whether the boys were actually guilty or not is still a big debate though amongst a lot of people although the majority believe they didn't do it. There's a lot of circumstantial evidence against them, and 2 of the dead boys fathers. One of the boys mother was skeptical of her husband and 3 years later she was dead. People say he killed her because she knew the truth. Her death is 'undetermined' til this day.

I will, I've gotten really interested in all this true crime stuff since that Steve Avery documentary

[Thotmas]

^^They're so interesting. Still need to see the Steve Avery and making a murderer ones though.

[ChristmasNeeve]

^^They're so interesting. Still need to see the Steve Avery and making a murderer ones though.

It's good but it's very biased towards Steve Avery being innocent, I think after watching you need to read up a bit yourself too. After watching Making a Murder I was convinced he was innocent but then after reading up about it and what the documentary left out I wasn't so sure

[Thotmas]

It's good but it's very biased towards Steve Avery being innocent, I think after watching you need to read up a bit yourself too. After watching Making a Murder I was convinced he was innocent but then after reading up about it and what the documentary left out I wasn't so sure

Oh I see. It's the same with WM3 ( the 3 boys I mentioned) to be honest. The first document in 1996 was biased towards their innocence and left out a lot of crucial information. That document is what got them Hollywood support and everyone pushed the innocence. All documentaries and publicity after did the same but when you actually read more you can have doubts like for example one of the boys actually confessed 5 times that they did it but then a lot of what he said was a bit inconsistent with what they found but at the same time there were things only the people that did it could have known.

Another thing that's interesting is that after they were released, the boy that initially confessed cut ties with the other two. People say it could be guilt is eating him up. They deemed him the most unstable/retarded at the time I believe. But the "ring leader" Damian Echols was such a weird boy though, he drank blood at the time maybe still does now.

[Merry Mockmas]

It's so bad. They should cut out the singing. This would have been interesting if it was real students.

Well we've already got three different singing shows in this country which does make Stage School a bit pointless in that area imo.

[Merry Mockmas]

If you like Crime Documentaries then I recommend Fear Thy Neighbor on TruTV, that has some interesting cases, especially the racist that wouldn't leave his neighbours alone because they was of colour to himself.

Oh and a little thing that irritates me is trying to read up on all of the updated Porn laws.:fist:

[Thotmas]

If you like Crime Documentaries then I recommend Fear Thy Neighbor on TruTV, that has some interesting cases, especially the racist that wouldn't leave his neighbours alone because they was of colour to himself.

Oh and a little thing that irritates me is trying to read up on all of the updated Porn laws.:fist:

Trutv is my fave.:laugh: YourTV too. I watch almost all the crime shows on there but haven't fully watched this and fatal attraction. I'll give it a go. Snapped is the best edited and they show actual footage from the courts which I like. Plus you can't beat the woman that does the voice over there.

[Merry Mockmas]

Trutv is my fave.:laugh: YourTV too. I watch almost all the crime shows on there but haven't fully watched this and fatal attraction. I'll give it a go. Snapped is the best edited and they show actual footage from the courts which I like. Plus you can't beat the woman that does the voice over there.

Snapped is the one I've watched the most out of the documentaries, I like the women who kill episodes the best.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Oh I see. It's the same with WM3 ( the 3 boys I mentioned) to be honest. The first document in 1996 was biased towards their innocence and left out a lot of crucial information. That document is what got them Hollywood support and everyone pushed the innocence. All documentaries and publicity after did the same but when you actually read more you can have doubts like for example one of the boys actually confessed 5 times that they did it but then a lot of what he said was a bit inconsistent with what they found but at the same time there were things only the people that did it could have known.

Another thing that's interesting is that after they were released, the boy that initially confessed cut ties with the other two. People say it could be guilt is eating him up. They deemed him the most unstable/retarded at the time I believe. But the "ring leader" Damian Echols was such a weird boy though, he drank blood at the time maybe still does now.

oh sounds really interesting, I'm going to try and watch that over the weekend

[Thotmas]

^the 1996 documentary is Paradise lost the child murders of robin hills, the film I watched is with Reese Witherspoon and Colin Firth Devil's knot but there's many other documentaries and films you can choose from.

-----
Wade Robson is accusing Michael Jackson again saying he had the most organised abuse ring...and deep down I think I believe it. I loved MJ but damnit he was weird as **** and I loved Wade too because of his work and I don't believe he would lie like this :bawling:

[Thotmas]

Snapped is the one I've watched the most out of the documentaries, I like the women who kill episodes the best.

Me too. So evil. Have you seen child killers? That's the creepiest. I also like killing made me famous (that one is on Really) and I almost got it away with it. People that go on win for years by get caught in the end.

[ChristmasNeeve]

^the 1996 documentary is Paradise lost the child murders of robin hills, the film I watched is with Reese Witherspoon and Colin Firth Devil's knot but there's many other documentaries and films you can choose from.

-----
Wade Robson is accusing Michael Jackson again saying he had the most organised abuse ring...and deep down I think I believe it. I loved MJ but damnit he was weird as **** and I loved Wade too because of his work and I don't believe he would lie like this :bawling:

Cool thanks

RE Michael Jackson, yeah as much as I loved his music and that, there was something very strange about him. I wouldn't be surprised if he'd been abused himself as a kid too, not that that's an excuse of course

[Merry Mockmas]

^the 1996 documentary is Paradise lost the child murders of robin hills, the film I watched is with Reese Witherspoon and Colin Firth Devil's knot but there's many other documentaries and films you can choose from.

-----
Wade Robson is accusing Michael Jackson again saying he had the most organised abuse ring...and deep down I think I believe it. I loved MJ but damnit he was weird as **** and I loved Wade too because of his work and I don't believe he would lie like this :bawling:

I always thought that Michael Jackson was a child inside because he never got to have a childhood being pushed into Music at such a young age.

He might've been a paedophile, but my feelings are that he just wanted to relive his childhood, hence hanging around children that was at the same age as him mentally.

[Merry Mockmas]

Me too. So evil. Have you seen child killers? That's the creepiest. I also like killing made me famous (that one is on Really) and I almost got it away with it. People that go on win for years by get caught in the end.

I've never seen some of these shows, I'll probably catch them eventually though as my family is very up on crime shows.:joker:

[Thotmas]

I always thought that Michael Jackson was a child inside because he never got to have a childhood being pushed into Music at such a young age.

He might've been a paedophile, but my feelings are that he just wanted to relive his childhood, hence hanging around children that was at the same age as him mentally.

This was my thought too for a long time- that he was just a man that never had a childhood so he was living it out as an adult, but now I'm not so sure anymore especially with so many old legends turning out to be pedos. I read somewhere that he was attracted to Macauly and he possibly abused him...look how slightly disturbed he grew up :( also recently they apparently found child pornography at his home :bawling: Like Niamh I wouldn't be surprised if he was sexually abused as a kid. He thrown into the wolves so young

[Thotmas]

I've never seen some of these shows, I'll probably catch them eventually though as my family is very up on crime shows.:joker:

Oh the autocorrect typos in my posts. I never proof read and if I do I've already posted :(

[Thotmas]

OqIv2tc9BCI

http://i68.tinypic.com/e0oql3.gif I can't with this. And he's serious. :laugh3: Another who loved Michael and vice versa and turned out weird.

[Ammi]

...those people...THOSE PEOPLE....THOSE DARN PEOPLE who don't empty their in-boxes...(glares at CeeCee.../I couldn't message you this morning.../thank you if you empty it and open the lines etc..:love:..)...

[Thotmas]

...those people...THOSE PEOPLE....THOSE DARN PEOPLE who don't empty their in-boxes...(glares at CeeCee.../I couldn't message you this morning.../thank you if you empty it and open the lines etc..:love:..)...

Oops it's such a chore and I'm a natural hoarder. Meant to delete the other day but just couldn't do it looking at some old ones :hehe:

[LukeB]

People who treat people like **** for no reason.

[Ammi]

Oops it's such a chore and I'm a natural hoarder. Meant to delete the other day but just couldn't do it looking at some old ones :hehe:

....hawww, I'm the same..I hated the first time that I had to delete messages, it felt like I was throwing away letters written that had great meaning..?...the only way I can do it now really is to just be ruthless and not even look at them but just hit that delete because I know that if I start to look, I just won't be able to....:sad:...


...(all of those lovely messages are in our heart anyway, having them in our inbox or not having them there, won't change that..)...

[Thotmas]

So is Kate Upton gonna comment on Terrence Cruther or nah? The world is waiting since her last input :conf:

[Thotmas]

Deep conditioning and being confined to sitting under a hot as hell hair dryer for 15 mins to an hour :bawling:

[ChristmasNeeve]

Oh I see. It's the same with WM3 ( the 3 boys I mentioned) to be honest. The first document in 1996 was biased towards their innocence and left out a lot of crucial information. That document is what got them Hollywood support and everyone pushed the innocence. All documentaries and publicity after did the same but when you actually read more you can have doubts like for example one of the boys actually confessed 5 times that they did it but then a lot of what he said was a bit inconsistent with what they found but at the same time there were things only the people that did it could have known.

Another thing that's interesting is that after they were released, the boy that initially confessed cut ties with the other two. People say it could be guilt is eating him up. They deemed him the most unstable/retarded at the time I believe. But the "ring leader" Damian Echols was such a weird boy though, he drank blood at the time maybe still does now.

Just watched Devils Knot, it is really interesting, isn't it? I need to look into it a bit more. The bloody man is a bit of a mystery too, also the dads were a bit suspicious, alot of times it turns out to be a relative in these situations. Poor little babies though :(

[Christmas Dynasnow]

People who treat people like **** for no reason.

there is always a reason

[ChristmasNeeve]

This site is pretty sure they are guilty CeeCee :think:

http://www.westmemphisthreefacts.com/

[ChristmasNeeve]

Just reading a bit more, I think it was the WM3 actually

Regarding their whereabouts on the night of the murders, all three of the convicted men have changed their stories several times.

On May 9, 1993, Baldwin and Echols told police they were at Jason's uncle's house at the time of the murders. The very next day, however, Echols told police a different story -- that he and his family spent the evening together, with Damien stating that he had a telephone conversation with a girl named Holly George until almost midnight. George denied this in an official police statement.

Echols would later state that he spent the evening talking on the phone to three other girls. In official statements, all three said they didn't speak with Echols until nearly 9:30 p.m. -- well after the suspected timeframe of the triple murder.

Testimonies from Baldwin's parents, brother and uncle were similarly disjointed, and Misskelley's wrestling alibi presented in "West of Memphis" conflicts sharply with earlier testimonies.

There is, however, a considerable amount of evidence to corroborate Misskelley's "confession" that he committed the murders while intoxicated. Not only did police investigators speak to a woman who said she purchased the liquor for him, a whiskey bottle was discovered in an area proximate to the murders -- the exact same brand Misskelley mentioned, in virtually the identical location he told police he had discarded it.

http://uncommonjournalism.blogspot.ie/2014/10/are-west-memphis-three-guilty-as-charged.html

I watched an interview with Terry Hobbs too, I believe him tbh, his wife seems a bit mental

[Northern Monkey]

Crabs

[Thotmas]

Just reading a bit more, I think it was the WM3 actually

Regarding their whereabouts on the night of the murders, all three of the convicted men have changed their stories several times.

On May 9, 1993, Baldwin and Echols told police they were at Jason's uncle's house at the time of the murders. The very next day, however, Echols told police a different story -- that he and his family spent the evening together, with Damien stating that he had a telephone conversation with a girl named Holly George until almost midnight. George denied this in an official police statement.

Echols would later state that he spent the evening talking on the phone to three other girls. In official statements, all three said they didn't speak with Echols until nearly 9:30 p.m. -- well after the suspected timeframe of the triple murder.

Testimonies from Baldwin's parents, brother and uncle were similarly disjointed, and Misskelley's wrestling alibi presented in "West of Memphis" conflicts sharply with earlier testimonies.

There is, however, a considerable amount of evidence to corroborate Misskelley's "confession" that he committed the murders while intoxicated. Not only did police investigators speak to a woman who said she purchased the liquor for him, a whiskey bottle was discovered in an area proximate to the murders -- the exact same brand Misskelley mentioned, in virtually the identical location he told police he had discarded it.

http://uncommonjournalism.blogspot.ie/2014/10/are-west-memphis-three-guilty-as-charged.html

I watched an interview with Terry Hobbs too, I believe him tbh, his wife seems a bit mental a lot of people think they did it. They get a lot of support from the Metal community though because they believe they were targeted because of the music they listened to and what they looked like mostly Damian. There's a whole lot more I need to read myself. I'm still undecided. Damian runs an art business at the moment and he's been on countless talk shows. Apparently he was raped in prison.

What turned it around for them was that when DNA evolved, they found hair from one of the fathers on one of the boys shoelaces. People say it could've got on there when maybe he was tying the boys shoe at home- only the boy they found it on wasn't his son it was one of the other boys. There are also witnesses that say they saw the father and his friend with the boys shortly before they were murdered. One of the fathers was physically abusive to the boy.

Did you see this clip of when Pam Hobbs found out her son was dead? People are confused by how chill Terry seems and say that's a sign of a guilty man. Pam is still active today. Still lookin for justice. She doesn't think the boys did it.

zN1diPvHoqQ


Damian with Piers. We hardly ever see Jessy.

5gv2cMLWykk

[ChristmasNeeve]

I'll watch those on my break, thanks CeeCee. Yeah i read about the shoe lace but I also read that, the boys had mixed shoe laces binding them, so it may not have been his own shoe lace that he was bound with and that also all the boys spent time in eachothers houses so it could just have stuck to him at anytime when he was walking round the house or whatever? Also, apparently Pam didn't start accusing Terry of being involved until they were in the middle of a bitter divorce, I read also that she accused him of sexually abusing their daughter but the daughter (who doesn't really get on with Terry) says she doesn't ever remember anything like that happening :/ As for the eye witnesses, they came forward years later too apparently and it contradicts another witness who says they saw the boys alone at that time in another place :think:

[ChristmasNeeve]

Also, looks like the "Bloody man" was just a homeless guy who's arm was in a sling so would have been very difficult for him to do that to three 8 year olds, also the staff said it looked like it was his own blood that he was covered in. Would have been a bit stupid of him to come into the restaurant covered in blood if he was actually just after murdering 3 people

[ChristmasNeeve]

hhhmmm I'm having doubts again now :laugh: The thing that's interesting though is from what I've read the pro WM3 being innocent sites and movie seem to want to discredit Aaron's (the boys friend) statement on the one hand but now they have the theory about Terry seem to want to bring that back in to support the new theory

[ChristmasNeeve]

Ohhh now I'm thinking maybe they are innocent, I need to watch one of the documentaries, Damn you CeeCee :fist:

[Thotmas]

Ohhh now I'm thinking maybe they are innocent, I need to watch one of the documentaries, Damn you CeeCee :fist:

Lol it's a difficult case, i'm constantly switching back and forth too. :laugh:

The plea deal was weird too. They were going to have a retrial but the boys, especially Damian who was on death row, weren't convinced that justice would be served and they would be found not guilty so they accepted a deal which says they are guilty but still maintain their innocence.
Doing this prevents investigators from reopening the case, which is a shame because justice is not served and this is also why Terry is not being investigated. :( I read that because of the location of the hair, could have only been there during/after the murders. No DNA from the boys ANYWHERE. Even where it should have been, according to Jessy's testimony. We have to remember there's no way the government would let out 3 supposed child killers unless there was way too much reasonable doubt and they're possibly innocent.

The bloody man ''Mr Bojangles'' was never found after, some people believe it could have been him as there wasn't a proper investigation on him.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Lol it's a difficult case, i'm constantly switching back and forth too. :laugh:

The plea deal was weird too. They were going to have a retrial but the boys, especially Damian who was on death row, weren't convinced that justice would be served and they would be found not guilty so they accepted a deal which says they are guilty but still maintain their innocence.
Doing this prevents investigators from reopening the case, which is a shame because justice is not served and this is also why Terry is not being investigated. :( I read that because of the location of the hair, could have only been there during/after the murders.

The bloody man ''Mr Bojangles'' was never found after, some people believe it could have been him as there wasn't a proper investigation on him.

mm The Mr. Bojangles guy seems unlikely though if he did and went to the trouble of hiding the bodies, their clothes, their bikes etc it seems like a weird choice to then go into a restaurant covered in the blood of the victims, also if his arm was in a cast (like the some witnesses reported) it would have made all he was supposed to have done highly improbable. Sounds more like a guy maybe off his face having fell down and cut himself (since he stumbled into the wrong toilet for a start)

[Thotmas]

mm The Mr. Bojangles guy seems unlikely though if he did and went to the trouble of hiding the bodies, their clothes, their bikes etc it seems like a weird choice to then go into a restaurant covered in the blood of the victims, also if his arm was in a cast (like the some witnesses reported) it would have made all he was supposed to have done highly improbable. Sounds more like a guy maybe off his face having fell down and cut himself (since he stumbled into the wrong toilet for a start)

I think the reliability of the Bojangles witnesses were questioned for a number of reasons which I forgot. If it was him, he could have wanted to clean up but then was spotted before he could. Did it say whether he cleaned up first before disappearing? I'll need to read about Mr Bojangles again. But it's true, the murder's would have taken at least 2 people. If he was in a cast, it couldn't have been him. Unless he got injured during the murders and managed to get a cast somehow between there and the restaurant :joker: oh but then he wouldn't been bloody.

Ui48Yyg7aU8
Damian was kind of arrogant, delusional, possibly high during that time. He seemed to enjoy the possibility of being famous because they were on trial. There's lots of videos of Johnny Depp and Eddie talking about this. Eddie campaigned for 10 years and Damian and Johnny are so close they have matching tattoos. Damian and Jason are pretty smart to be honest and speak eloquently

[ChristmasNeeve]

Those interviews make him look really creepy :/ I'd hate for them to be guilty knowing that Eddie Vedder was a big supporter of them, he's like my hero :laugh:

I'm watching Paradise lost now

[ChristmasNeeve]

oh re Mr Bojangles also, if he'd murdered the boys and dumped them in a river, why wouldn't he have washed the blood of in that water instead of walking into a restaurant covered in blood?

[Thotmas]

oh re Mr Bojangles also, if he'd murdered the boys and dumped them in a river, why wouldn't he have washed the blood of in that water instead of walking into a restaurant covered in blood?

Very true!! Shame he must be dead by now, would have been nice to hear his side.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Very true!! Shame he must be dead by now, would have been nice to hear his side.

If he was a homeless guy/possibly drunk or on drugs at the time maybe he didn't remember he was there? Or even know that he was a person of Interest?

I finished the first Paradise Lost last night, I was expecting it to be more biased towards the boys than it was tbh, I thought the whole trying to make the Byers dad look guilty was a bit off since apparently he had a rock solid alibi or something? Did you watch that CeeCee or did you watch West of Memphis? I'm going to get through them all I think, the case really is fascinating, hearing what actually happened to those babies though, it's sickening to think that no one has been properly punished for it.

Oh I thought it was weird at the end, after the boys were found guilty that Jason said he wasn't sure if Damien could have done it or not

Also, do you know why they originally started questioning Jesse (and eventually getting a confession from him) Was it to do with that boy Aarons story?

[Thotmas]

If he was a homeless guy/possibly drunk or on drugs at the time maybe he didn't remember he was there? Or even know that he was a person of Interest?

I finished the first Paradise Lost last night, I was expecting it to be more biased towards the boys than it was tbh, I thought the whole trying to make the Byers dad look guilty was a bit off since apparently he had a rock solid alibi or something? Did you watch that CeeCee or did you watch West of Memphis? I'm going to get through them all I think, the case really is fascinating, hearing what actually happened to those babies though, it's sickening to think that no one has been properly punished for it.

Oh I thought it was weird at the end, after the boys were found guilty that Jason said he wasn't sure if Damien could have done it or not

Also, do you know why they originally started questioning Jesse (and eventually getting a confession from him) Was it to do with that boy Aarons story?

I just started Paradise lost yesterday. So far I only watched Devils knots, a few interviews and docs and read some things. His alibi was questioned though and Byers wife turned up dead 3 years later in undecided circumstances. People think he killed her because she knew something.
I have no idea why they questioned him first. You might be ahead of me at this point. On YouTube there's actually an hour long video of Jessy's confessions. People think it sounds rehearsed. He was considered the retarded one. I'll finish paradise lost tonight

[Thotmas]

Each week I see Selasi trending on Twitter and girls creaming over this dude. I don't watch GBBO so I YouTube this guy and I'm just like....:conf::conf::conf:

[Thotmas]

Niamh, i've had this song for ages on my playlist. There's a dialogue at the beginning and I always though oh what the fak is this get on with the song, but now I know it is actually the dialogue from the WM3 second trial.


Prosecutor - "In looking at young people involved in the occult, do you see any particular type of dress?"
Witness - "I have personally observed people wearing black fingernails, having their hair painted black, wearing black t-shirts... Sometimes they will tattoo themselves."


gFDCHdKbKBY


From 1:08:50

uEp9pWNxAl0

I realise to the metal community these 3 are like the holy grail of 'metal profiling'-if that makes sense

[Thotmas]

Jason was pretty active on Facebook up until 2014. Him and Damian fell out around that time because they didn't agree on the portrayals on one of the films
https://m.facebook.com/Jason-Baldwin-145944238773717/
The dude that lied that Jason confessed to him in Paradise Lost apologises in Purgatory I think.
About Bojangles see how one woman testified that she didn't see him and the police mysteriously lost the blood sample of mr Bojangles? Mmm tooooo suspicious. Pinning it on the 3 satanic boys was a better blockbuster narrative so I guess they were careless with any other evidence.

Man what if Mike Byers and Terry Hobbs did it together?
Mike Byers lied about a knife he had. He said he never used it but they found blood on it and of course the DNA of Terry Hobbs. The defence lawyers say because of lack of blood the murders couldn't have been carried out where the bodies were found. Terry was apparently physical and sexual abuser (Pam claims he abused their daughter though she might have denied it) what if the boys saw something they shouldn't have and then were killed ugh

Interesting read on the suspects, especially Terry
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/memphis3/suspectswm3.html

As of 2012 Pam Hobbs wanted Terry Hobbs probed. Apparently his nephew believes he did it. Some family members may know more than they led on.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2092898/Pam-Hobbs-Mother-slain-Cub-Scout-wants-West-Memphis-Three-case-reopened.html

Ugh that ****ing plea deal. So much left unsolved but can't be touched. Damian thinks the only way this case can reopened is if the current people that had anything to do with this case retire and then new people that have nothing to cover up take it on. APvDTH4mkZc

[ChristmasNeeve]

I'll watch the video after, thanks CeeCee.

The only thing that bothers me about Pam Hicks gunning for Terry is that she only started that when they were going through a divorce, it kind of stinks of revenge, plus her daughter totally denies the fact that he abused her as well (and she doesn't even seem to get on too well with him) Pam comes across as a bit mental to me.

Also, what bothers me about the metal community taking up their cause and implying that they were targeted just because they wore black etc is simplifying things a bit imo, It was more the fact that Damien had serious mental problems, had been locked up for this and had been known to be violent etc

Something that isn't brought up very much either I've noticed is the Blue Candle wax found on Christopher Byers clothes, they found blue candles in Damiens bedroom. It is a bit of an odd thing to find on the victim and alot less likely to have been secondarily transferred like the hair

[sampvt]

People that use their gender along with over issues to put a point over and make themselves relevant instead of misunderstood and in need of help

[Peppermint]

People that use their gender along with over issues to put a point over and make themselves relevant instead of misunderstood and in need of help
Sam Fox: "As a woman..." teas

[ChristmasNeeve]

Interesting read on the suspects, especially Terry
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/memphis3/suspectswm3.html



Just reading through this one now, ****ing hell, what is up with all these people trying to hide what they were doing that night, seems like every person I read about has shaky alibis or keeps changing their stories

So he apparently confessed to killing the boys with Damien but then confessed to killing the boys with Terry?

[ChristmasNeeve]

This is another guys opinion of that Terry Hobbs theory, i tend to agree with him

http://trenchreynolds.com/tag/l-g-hollingsworth/


They're prepared to go with the alleged confession of LG Hollingsworth (who's now dead and can't defend himself) to a rapist looking for a deal but not the numerous confessions, in person to Police officers and his solicitor by Jesse Misskelley. I mean I'm not saying that the WM3 couldn't be innocent but it's kind of hypocritical of those people who cried unfair at the WM3 convictions to then lead some sort of a witch hunt against someone on even flimsier evidence


The Byers though :worry: You could see clear as day that Mark was nuts from the documentary

http://www.arktimes.com/arkansas/the-legal-troubles-of-terry-hobbs-and-john-mark-byers/Content?oid=2091927&storyPage=2

Byers has a nasty history :

By 1987, Byers had been married, fathered two children, been divorced, and remarried. A former neighbor, who asked not to be identified, said she reported Byers about that time to child abuse authorities, because "he was whipping Christopher [who was two at the time] so badly I was afraid for his life." The woman said she reported the incidents again during the investigations into the murders, but was never asked to testify.

That same year, Byers was arrested and charged with terroristic threatening for an assault on his former wife. John Griffm, of the Marion Police Department, wrote in his report that "a concened neighbor...advised that she heard a woman screaming [and that] there were two small kids outside by themselves, unattended."

When he entered the house, Griffin wrote, he found Byers' ex-wife on the floor and Byers brandishing an electric shock device known as a Power Zapper. He said Byers behaved arrogantly, and that the woman was upset and begged him not to leave.

"Mr. Byers acted strange," the report noted. "A few minutes he would calm down

and talk normal, but then all of a sudden, he would get arrogant again, advising me that he was the father and he was going to take the kids. However, he could not produce any papers showing that he had custody of the kids.

"He also became upset when I advised him that I was going to keep the Power Zapper, which he wanted back. I could not smell any type of intoxicant on his breath, [but] he appeared to have been either on some type of medication or intoxicant [by] the manner in which he was acting."


Going to watch Paradise Lost 2 tonight

[Livia]

RrXnE9NDztw

Insufferable.

You want to impress me? Drive yourself to school tomorrow, you little sod.

[Thotmas]

This is another guys opinion of that Terry Hobbs theory, i tend to agree with him

http://trenchreynolds.com/tag/l-g-hollingsworth/


They're prepared to go with the alleged confession of LG Hollingsworth (who's now dead and can't defend himself) to a rapist looking for a deal but not the numerous confessions, in person to Police officers and his solicitor by Jesse Misskelley. I mean I'm not saying that the WM3 couldn't be innocent but it's kind of hypocritical of those people who cried unfair at the WM3 convictions to then lead some sort of a witch hunt against someone on even flimsier evidence


The Byers though :worry: You could see clear as day that Mark was nuts from the documentary

http://www.arktimes.com/arkansas/the-legal-troubles-of-terry-hobbs-and-john-mark-byers/Content?oid=2091927&storyPage=2

Byers has a nasty history :

[I]By 1987, Byers had been married, fathered two children, been divorced, and remarried. A former neighbor, who asked not to be identified, said she reported Byers about that time to child abuse authorities, because "he was whipping Christopher [who was two at the time] so badly I was afraid for his life." The woman said she reported the incidents again during the investigations into the murders, but was never asked to testify.

That same year, Byers was arrested and charged with terroristic threatening for an assault on his former wife. John Griffm, of the Marion Police Department, wrote in his report that "a concened neighbor...advised that she heard a woman screaming [and that] there were two small kids outside by themselves, unattended."

When he entered the house, Griffin wrote, he found Byers' ex-wife on the floor and Byers brandishing an electric shock device known as a Power Zapper. He said Byers behaved arrogantly, and that the woman was upset and begged him not to leave.

"Mr. Byers acted strange," the report noted. "A few minutes he would calm down

and talk normal, but then all of a sudden, he would get arrogant again, advising me that he was the father and he was going to take the kids. However, he could not produce any pape

The Terry link is interesting. Although it sounds far fetched, in one of Aaron's earlier confessions he said he saw 5 men and they were doing bad things that women and men do- with their mouths they were kissing etc..basically implicating sex.
All his confessions are inconsistent and change, and as of 2013 he says he fabricated it and that he was mostly coerced. But still
In his first ever confession he implicated BYERS and a knife but later the police made him and his mum sign that they would never reveal this. He also mentioned that he saw the case on TV which could have of course influenced his later confessions where he's implying WM3. AND he said there was a black man present- it could have either been that Bojangles was involved OR he saw them do it, tried to stop it, but was apparently shot because apparently there could have been a gun involved.
Aaron said he was also hog tied like the others (although in a way different to how the boys were found tied though) but he managed to get away somehow. He said one of the WM3 touched him too.
One of his confessions
http://law2.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/memphis3/VickiHutchesonstatements.html

Did you know that after both sides rested their case in court, a necklace that's supposedly Damien's was found and on it there was Jason blood, his and Steven Branch (the murdered boy) but they never used it in court.

About Pam, maybe that's why she was divorcing him in the first place, because she realised he did it, so it was brought up during the divorce.



Oh my god this case is so confusing the more you read. Literally it could be anyone :bawling:

[ChristmasNeeve]

Yeah Aarons confessions were strange but I wonder was his mother given some sort of deal to get Aaron to say something? Apparently how his first statement came about was when his mother called into the Police station about a case involving herself where her employers had accused her of credit card fraud.....she was never charged with it in the end and the Police ended up with an eye witness to the murders in her son, that all seems very convenient/coincidental don't you think? God, the whole bloody town seem dodgy, don't they? As for Mr Bojangles being shot after witnessing the murders? You'd imagine he would have reported it if that were the case

I don't know why I feel like Terry wasn't involved but I don't. After reading about Byers dad though, he seems completely warped and like luring young people to private spots for violence and torture were something he was partial to

[Thotmas]

V20WV2UnTZI

Here is an interesting video about what they left out of Paradise Lost.

Sigh

[Thotmas]

Tim Burton says diversity is not needed-bye :wavey: *checked off list underneath Clint Eastwood*

[Ammi]

..^^...so ok, you ladies got my interest and I watched Paradise Lost/part 1 last night...obviously the start was so hard with the killings, those poor children and what was done to them...:sad:..I mean, words just can't and surely a definition of evil in the true sense....




...I don't know, atm my thoughts are that they're guilty...those were killings that would have brought so much sound, both from the killers and the children themselves in their terror and torture and the 3 were in the area so they would have heard something, so they must have killed them because they haven't given any accountable detail of having heard anything but not being the ones who did it..?...


...what was said after Jessie's trial and sentencing, that the 'normally experienced' would be protesting of innocence..that would be the reaction to a life imprisonment but he was still saying that he was guilty when he was taken down..?...


...I found so many 'odd' things about the families in general...it was only really one of the fathers..(I'm not quite with all of the names atm..)..who was saying things that could be related to and connected with, like..'what did my child see being done to the others/what did he feel/and I wasn't there for him in his terror', type thing...which is what would haunt a parent, those moments of extreme fear/physical pain and how they had been helpless to prevent that or to protect their child...I mean it would just be unbearable for a parent but other than the father vocalising those things, what was mostly seen was anger but even then, just not with an emotion I would imagine and also no other emotions of grief...(other than when the one mum left the courtroom with the graphic pics and details..)...I don't know, some of the parents just seemed 'odd'....I mean you would feel anger but there would be so much other visible grief as well/I mean what was done to their children was horrendous....it popped into my head later of the images of Meredith Kercher's family and their visible emotional pain....

...anyways, it was mainly Jessie's story with the first part as it was his trial and crikey, how odd his family as well...well actually his girlfriend..(I presume she was his girlfriend of the time...)...but saying that she hadn't realised how much she loved him until then..?...I mean huhhhhhhhh, what the heck....your boyfriend confesses to this sort of horrific killing of three young children/well his part in it of holding the boy and then you realise your love for that person..?.../I'm actually still trying to process that in my head...also his mum, I have the feeling that he wouldn't testify at the other trial because then he was admitting his guilt once and for all and his mum was having none of it...even though he was still saying that he was part of the killings after his sentencing...that it would be fear of his mum and losing her support/type thing..and his girlfriend's support as well probably...


...anyway, I'll watch part 2 at the weekend or later...

[ChristmasNeeve]

Oh yay Ammi is on board too :love:

CeeCee thanks for that video, I'm going to watch it on my lunchbreak

So I watched Paradise Lost 2 last night, now I know the Documentary is pretty biased (ala making a Murderer) but God that Mark Byers is a very strange and scary man. Everything he does seems like an act like he's preaching and everytime he starts talking about Christopher he makes it about himself which too, is very weird. The whole teeth marks, him having lost his teeth after the murders and giving different reasons as to how he lost them seemed pretty damning, plus his less than savoury rap sheet also, the type of things he's done in the past seem odd. Like one time he was driving around with a teenage boy (a non relative, don't know why he was driving around with him) and the boy had words with a group of other teenagers and Mark got involved brought them all down to some "private" area and told the two boys to fight it out, he gave the boy who he was with a pocket knife and told him to keep it closed but use it to hit him, they left the boy unconscious and later when he was arrested he told the Police Officer that he thought what he did was right. Also, an old neightbour had called child services on him when Christopher was 2 because he was "spanking" him so badly she thought he was going to kill him. Plus his new neighbours after the murders got a restraining order against him cos he "spanked" their 5 year old son. He was arrested for using a kind of electric stunner on his first wife and got angry with the police officer when he said he couldn't have it back :/ Not to mention his next wife (Christophers mother) dying in odd circumstances

Moving on from him though, i am curious to see what Paradise Lost 3 is going to have in store and why they decide to move onto Terry next as the most viable suspect, they came down hard on Mark in paradise Lost 2 and as interesting as I find all this i do find it hypocritical for them to do that considering they're complaining about the WM3 being treated unfairly

Also Ammi, tbh the whole town seem pretty odd. In actual fact Damien and his family seem like the most sane :laugh:

[ChristmasNeeve]

V20WV2UnTZI

Here is an interesting video about what they left out of Paradise Lost.

Sigh

It's hard to know who's telling the truth. I'd read somewhere (or maybe it was said in PL) that Jessie did a polygraph and passed it but that the Police told him he failed and that's when he confessed but this video says he did fail hhmmm

I hadn't heard the shoelace from an adults shoe part before. If everything in that video is true then that's slamming evidence that they did it imo....but is it true?, you hear so many stories contradicting eachother

[ChristmasNeeve]

very Interesting, atleast this one fact is proven to be true ^

NKnGYZfuBBQ

[ChristmasNeeve]

Michael Moores parents (who seem the most sane tbqh) are still convinced that the WM3 did it. Also Pam thought it was the WM3 up until she divorced Terry and Mark only changed his mind to take the heat off himself imho

I'm back to thinking it was the WM3 i think.......I still have to watch part 3 though, also I will give West of Memphis a look although I know how biased that will be since Damien was actually involved in making it :laugh:

[Ammi]

...I watched the second part of Paradise Lost yesterday/Damien and Jason's trial...surely when they're tried separately as Jessie was then the trial starts to become a formality because how could they have ever been found innocent when he was found guilty for his part..?...anyways, I still think they're guilty..even more so really, I found Damien quite cold and chilling/emotionless/hollow...in the courtroom when he was just looking into the mirror and combing his hair/'grooming himself', that was very creepy...just so detached from what was actually happening around him and the enormity of it..and also when he and Jason were talking about when the police came to their home, it all just seemed like a game or something/quite unsettling...although his words were ok, I didn't see any emotion to match those words when he was talking about his son...and when he said ' I kinda like it, people will be talking about me for years to come…I’ll be like the West Memphis boogeyman '.../chilling...


...I take it that no similar murders were committed over the years of their imprisonment..and would someone commit such a horrific crime as a 'one off thing'...unlike something like a crime of passion for instance... so that would make me think it was them as well..that there were no more such killings as the killers were in prison....anyways, will watch Part 3 over the weekend but yeah, I still think they're guilty and I found Damien just so detached and lacking in 'human' (qualities/emotions..)...

[Nicky91]

a thing that irritates me, is that i feel like i'm being ignored, but i do want to chat with someone :(

[Thotmas]

Oh yay Ammi is on board too :love:

CeeCee thanks for that video, I'm going to watch it on my lunchbreak

So I watched Paradise Lost 2 last night, now I know the Documentary is pretty biased (ala making a Murderer) but God that Mark Byers is a very strange and scary man. Everything he does seems like an act like he's preaching and everytime he starts talking about Christopher he makes it about himself which too, is very weird. The whole teeth marks, him having lost his teeth after the murders and giving different reasons as to how he lost them seemed pretty damning, plus his less than savoury rap sheet also, the type of things he's done in the past seem odd. Like one time he was driving around with a teenage boy (a non relative, don't know why he was driving around with him) and the boy had words with a group of other teenagers and Mark got involved brought them all down to some "private" area and told the two boys to fight it out, he gave the boy who he was with a pocket knife and told him to keep it closed but use it to hit him, they left the boy unconscious and later when he was arrested he told the Police Officer that he thought what he did was right. Also, an old neightbour had called child services on him when Christopher was 2 because he was "spanking" him so badly she thought he was going to kill him. Plus his new neighbours after the murders got a restraining order against him cos he "spanked" their 5 year old son. He was arrested for using a kind of electric stunner on his first wife and got angry with the police officer when he said he couldn't have it back :/ Not to mention his next wife (Christophers mother) dying in odd circumstances

Moving on from him though, i am curious to see what Paradise Lost 3 is going to have in store and why they decide to move onto Terry next as the most viable suspect, they came down hard on Mark in paradise Lost 2 and as interesting as I find all this i do find it hypocritical for them to do that considering they're complaining about the WM3 being treated unfairly

Also Ammi, tbh the whole town seem pretty odd. In actual fact Damien and his family seem like the most sane :laugh:

Yes the whole losing his teeth thing after they analyzed teeth marks on the body is too weird. Mark Byers was just over preaching too much. I agree with Damien that it was like he was acting, doing what a parent is supposed to do. A parent's grief never goes away, but the level of drama in the way you handle things goes down. Even Pam calmed down after a while. He was just always ready to perform. The issue with his wife dying some time later aswell is suspicious. I don't believe she just died of a broken heart. What's interesting is after that decade long of ranting about WM3, not too long ago he's now seen linking arms with Damien in a premiere. What, all that rage went away? I know Damien was pointing the finger at both Byers and Terry but maybe now they're just pointing the finger at Terry. Or maybe Byers and WM3 were in it together all along who knows.

With Pam and Byers. Maybe these parents are now just after publicity which is disgusting.
http://i.imgur.com/fAyhmpY.jpg

[Thotmas]

...I watched the second part of Paradise Lost yesterday/Damien and Jason's trial...surely when they're tried separately as Jessie was then the trial starts to become a formality because how could they have ever been found innocent when he was found guilty for his part..?...anyways, I still think they're guilty..even more so really, I found Damien quite cold and chilling/emotionless/hollow...in the courtroom when he was just looking into the mirror and combing his hair/'grooming himself', that was very creepy...just so detached from what was actually happening around him and the enormity of it..and also when he and Jason were talking about when the police came to their home, it all just seemed like a game or something/quite unsettling...although his words were ok, I didn't see any emotion to match those words when he was talking about his son...and when he said ' I kinda like it, people will be talking about me for years to come…I’ll be like the West Memphis boogeyman '.../chilling...


...I take it that no similar murders were committed over the years of their imprisonment..and would someone commit such a horrific crime as a 'one off thing'...unlike something like a crime of passion for instance... so that would make me think it was them as well..that there were no more such killings as the killers were in prison....anyways, will watch Part 3 over the weekend but yeah, I still think they're guilty and I found Damien just so detached and lacking in 'human' (qualities/emotions..)...

Yes he was creepy. The things he said, how detached he seemed but I don't want to judge him on that alone otherwise I would be like those people at the time supposedly 'witch hunting' the three because they were different.

However, he had mental health issues. There is something called exhibit 500 which has documents about his mental health. Some of the things on there are pretty creepy. But the way Damien explains his demeanour now, about then, is that he had faith in the justice system and that there was no way they would have been found guilty if they didn't do anything. He did have grandieuse complex then. His west memphis boogeyman comment is creepy but if he really was guilty he wouldn't have said that while professing his innocence at the same time.

Jason and Damien seemed pretty sure of themselves at the beginning, like you said when they were laughing at the cops coming to their house, but as the trial went on you can tell it was starting to sink in that they might actually go down for this. Especially Jason, he was so drained. Did you see the way he shook his head when that guy lied under oath that Jason had confessed to him? He was lying. He had heard tales from other sources.


Jessy's confessions-He's saying he was coerced. They spend a longer time talking before they actually started recording so knowing how cops work, maybe he was telling them something else, they weren't happy but only began recording when he told them what they wanted to hear.

Have you looked into Terry Hobbs? They found his DNA on a shoelace tied on the boys.

A little boy called Aaron said he saw 5 men in the woods. 4 having sex, 1 black man (possibly Mr Bojangles) and that the other three boys stumbled on them that's why they were killed. Years later, not too long ago a convicted rapist said one of the men confessed that there was a sex ring in the woods and they killed the boys. He managed to escape.

The necklace they supposedly claim is Damien's looks different than what Damien actually wore.


I was wondering what happened to Damien's son. Apparently the mother and son moved away because she didn't want to be in the spotlight or expose her son to this. She remarried and has girls. Some say Damien still sees his son some say he doesn't. The mother always said if she thought he was the tiny bit guilty he would never see his son again.


Matching tattoos with Johnny Depp. The other day Dave Navaro tweeted him

http://i.imgur.com/cIn5JxV.jpg


''Damien Echols fooled you all'' but the comments are more interesting.
http://trenchreynolds.com/2011/08/22/damien-echols-has-fooled-you-all/

[ChristmasNeeve]

Yes the whole losing his teeth thing after they analyzed teeth marks on the body is too weird. Mark Byers was just over preaching too much. I agree with Damien that it was like he was acting, doing what a parent is supposed to do. A parent's grief never goes away, but the level of drama in the way you handle things goes down. Even Pam calmed down after a while. He was just always ready to perform. The issue with his wife dying some time later aswell is suspicious. I don't believe she just died of a broken heart. What's interesting is after that decade long of ranting about WM3, not too long ago he's now seen linking arms with Damien in a premiere. What, all that rage went away? I know Damien was pointing the finger at both Byers and Terry but maybe now they're just pointing the finger at Terry. Or maybe Byers and WM3 were in it together all along who knows.

With Pam and Byers. Maybe these parents are now just after publicity which is disgusting.
http://i.imgur.com/fAyhmpY.jpg

Just finished Paradise Lost 3. Jeez Byers is gross, so transparent that he's only backing Echols and co now to take the spotlight off himself. I mean he sat through the original trial and was 100% convinced that they were guilty but now all of a sudden he's condemning the state for convicting them at all? Please ugh Both him and Pam couldn't have been that convinced originally but now completely convinced in the opposite direction, I mean ok maybe over time they might have had some doubts but surely not enough to be ok with campaigning for and putting your arms around the guys who may have done that to your children? Even if it was only a slight chance that they might have

On a side note though I have to say do find Jason the most believable and likeable of them all so much so I was even wondering if it were possible that he wasn't involved but Damien was?

[ChristmasNeeve]

Yes he was creepy. The things he said, how detached he seemed but I don't want to judge him on that alone otherwise I would be like those people at the time supposedly 'witch hunting' the three because they were different.

However, he had mental health issues. There is something called exhibit 500 which has documents about his mental health. Some of the things on there are pretty creepy. But the way Damien explains his demeanour now, about then, is that he had faith in the justice system and that there was no way they would have been found guilty if they didn't do anything. He did have grandieuse complex then. His west memphis boogeyman comment is creepy but if he really was guilty he wouldn't have said that while professing his innocence at the same time.

Jason and Damien seemed pretty sure of themselves at the beginning, like you said when they were laughing at the cops coming to their house, but as the trial went on you can tell it was starting to sink in that they might actually go down for this. Especially Jason, he was so drained. Did you see the way he shook his head when that guy lied under oath that Jason had confessed to him? He was lying. He had heard tales from other sources.


Jessy's confessions-He's saying he was coerced. They spend a longer time talking before they actually started recording so knowing how cops work, maybe he was telling them something else, they weren't happy but only began recording when he told them what they wanted to hear.

Have you looked into Terry Hobbs? They found his DNA on a shoelace tied on the boys.

A little boy called Aaron said he saw 5 men in the woods. 4 having sex, 1 black man (possibly Mr Bojangles) and that the other three boys stumbled on them that's why they were killed. Years later, not too long ago a convicted rapist said one of the men confessed that there was a sex ring in the woods and they killed the boys. He managed to escape.

The necklace they supposedly claim is Damien's looks different than what Damien actually wore.


I was wondering what happened to Damien's son. Apparently the mother and son moved away because she didn't want to be in the spotlight or expose her son to this. She remarried and has girls. Some say Damien still sees his son some say he doesn't. The mother always said if she thought he was the tiny bit guilty he would never see his son again.


Matching tattoos with Johnny Depp. The other day Dave Navaro tweeted him

http://i.imgur.com/cIn5JxV.jpg


''Damien Echols fooled you all'' but the comments are more interesting.
http://trenchreynolds.com/2011/08/22/damien-echols-has-fooled-you-all/

The thing about Aarons statement though is if that 5 men/sex ring thing is true he would have known that Terry was Stevies step dad and would have been able to tell them that, wouldn't he? Aaron isn't a very reliable witness I think, I reckon that whole thing was made up. I doubt those men would have allowed him to get away and then go on to murder the remaining boys with a witness on the loose

[Thotmas]

The thing about Aarons statement though is if that 5 men/sex ring thing is true he would have known that Terry was Stevies step dad and would have been able to tell them that, wouldn't he? Aaron isn't a very reliable witness I think, I reckon that whole thing was made up. I doubt those men would have allowed him to get away and then go on to murder the remaining boys with a witness on the loose

As of 2013 he said he fabricated the WM3 testimony. We don't know if he would know Terry but he did implicate Byers in his first statement. He implicated WM3after watching tv.

[Pete.]

Louis Walsh

[ChristmasNeeve]

As of 2013 he said he fabricated the WM3 testimony. We don't know if he would know Terry but he did implicate Byers in his first statement. He implicated WM3after watching tv.

Byers? Really? Still though I doubt he saw anything at all that day

[Thotmas]

Byers? Really? Still though I doubt he saw anything at all that day

You'll find this interesting
http://m.arktimes.com/arkansas/they-messed-with-my-words/Content?oid=964537

[Thotmas]

This is both heartbreaking and creepy. Heartbreaking because the lad is clearly distraught-a lot different than how he was when he went in. This is around the time he claims he was being raped

NsLn7GqP_UU

[Ammi]

..I've watched all three Paradise lost now...yeah CeeCee, I know what you mean about (Damien especially) being judged by some because he had black hair/wore black clothes and had tattoos etc because that's stereotyping someone who has individuality but it's more how cold he appears to me and how detached, almost like he's a 'hollow'/emotionless person...and with Aaron..?..I'm just really not convinced with his disclosures, especially as he mentions 'Mr Bojangles' as well/a 'black man' being one of the five men he saw...because it feels more like with small town gossip etc and things that he must have heard discussed, that he more likely had lots of information being absorbed/maybe dreams about the killings even..?..and more in his imagination...he could have believed that he actually saw something but in reality didn't...I mean it was all so gruesome that it seems quite feasible that there were many 'scary thoughts' with other children at the time but him believing his were 'real' as an experience...


...Niamh, I actually that that I had missed a bit because of Terry Hobbs and his sudden turnaround in support for them, that's really so unbelievably odd...


...the necklace, CeeCee...that's pretty damning for Damien...anyways, my feelings are still that they're guilty...I know it said that they would have probably been acquitted with a retrial, using expressions like probably and most likely but the 'new' evidence had been dismissed so I can't really see that either...how weird a plea though with the North Carolina V Afford ruling/I'm innocent but will plead guilty...that feels so bizarre to me...that, that exists....Damien had drunk someone's blood which is another creepy thing...and also tattood/or cut rather, his girlfriends name into his arm so he hade 'knife control skills'..?...which was mentioned in the trial by the expert witness, he's also apparently said that he would slit his mum's throat on a previous occasion...I know it's reported that Terry Hobbs had a temper and would be physical with Steve and also his mum...?..but this doesn't seem to me to be a temper/rage killing...again going back to the expert witness in the trial, it had 'precision' so more a very 'cold' killing...and to me, that isn't Terry Hobb's character...(he may be a grim human being I know but...)...and this is what my thoughts keep going back to..that cold and emotionless doesn't really fit with the character of any of the parents but I have felt it with Damien and possibly Jason as well...less so with Jessie but he was the only one who admitted guilt for his part and he maintained that all of the way through and also after sentencing...he 'went along with' more than had the same intent as the other two because he was quite vulnerable..?...


..anyways I haven't read any of the sites that both of you have...I started to watch Devil's Knot the movie though...just to get a feel of where my thoughts would lead on guilt/innocence if I hadn't known any of the case/if the movie was all I had seen...the real life and the scenes in the movie are really well done and accurate but I was getting tired so I've only seen the first 45 minutes or so, I'll try to finish it today...one of the things on the movie though that I hadn't noticed in the actual footage of Damien going into the courtroom..was that he blew a kiss at a young lady that was shouting outside of the courtroom/in the crowd of many people shouting how evil he was....again, if that actually happened, it's that 'cold emotionless thing' and a lack of it all effecting him other than the 'fame' he was getting, which he had seemed happy with...

[Ammi]

This is both heartbreaking and creepy. Heartbreaking because the lad is clearly distraught-a lot different than how he was when he went in. This is around the time he claims he was being raped

NsLn7GqP_UU

....hmmm, he mentions the drinking blood there and says he licked rather than drunk...

[Jay28jay2]

-Someone leaving doors open in an occupied room
-Being able to hear people talk in the other room/too loud

[Thotmas]

....hmmm, he mentions the drinking blood there and says he licked rather than drunk...

The necklace might not have been his. It's still up for discussion. A bit suspect this evidence was found afterwards
http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yuku.com/topic/8659/Is-The-Necklace-Really-a-Smoking-Gun

Being chilling is still not enough evidence for me. There was no DNA from the boys anywhere. Terry was the last one seen with the boys and he also had a shaky alibi, plus his DNA and people confessions. Some of his family members and his ex wife want probing. I wish it was possible to look further into Terry and Byers. There's way too much circumstantial evidence on Byers. He was high on medicine during his polygraph so it might've affected his results.

Yes I mentioned earlier that Aaron pointed the finger at WM3 after watching tv but before all that he indicated Byers. In a later interview he said he might have fabricated some of it.
A-yUUEw-Wrc

[Ammi]

..I'll look at that link in a bit CeeCee..thank you..:love:...I have to say with Devil's Knot/the movie...(but having seen the court cases beforehand/I usually do these things the other way round with a movie sparking my thoughts..:laugh:..)...I am starting to have a bit of a turnaround over their guilt...the 'occult expert witness' in court didn't even have a PHD or any kind of qualification at all really...he had just done a correspondence course and completed a few questionnaires and even though this was pointed out to the judge by the defence...he overruled and allowed his testimony to stay against Damien...

[Ammi]

...CeeCee/Niamh...also, Chris Morgan and Brian Holland who left the town just 4 days after the children were killed..?...Chris suffered from blackouts and memory losses at the time with drug abuse and didn't their polygraph tests come back dodgy...

[ChristmasNeeve]

...CeeCee/Niamh...also, Chris Morgan and Brian Holland who left the town just 4 days after the children were killed..?...Chris suffered from blackouts and memory losses at the time with drug abuse and didn't their polygraph tests come back dodgy...

Those names don't ring a bell with me......I thought I'd read everything about the case at this stage :laugh: I'm going to read up on that

So I watched West of Memphis last night. Ugh I know Damien was involved in the making of this one so I had that firmly in my mind while watching it...i have to say though it still swayed me a bit, out of all the PLs and devils Knot, this one really made me think they didn't do it. Also Eddie Vedder was in this one so that was a bonus :amazed:

Ammi & CeeCee if you haven't watched that one yet, do it.

They put forward the argument that alot of the injuries to the boys may have happened after they died and were in the water, including the emasculation of Chris Byers (I really hope that they're right too, poor child :( ) They showed examples of what Turtle bites and clawing looked like and they were almost identical to the marks on the boys and apparently that area was full of turtles

I was finally a bit swayed on the possibility of it being Terry as well although Pam still seems like a really unreliable source to me :think:

I felt so sorry for her and Terrys daughter, I feel like she may have suffered the most because of the murders

A couple of things that weren't clear to me though, was it only Jesse's statement that made people think the boys had been raped or was there evidence of this? (I'm really hoping that didn't happen to them either)

And also, the whole blue candle wax on one of the boys clothes, that doesn't seem to ever be mentioned much but it's always one thing I keep coming back to

[ChristmasNeeve]

The necklace might not have been his. It's still up for discussion. A bit suspect this evidence was found afterwards
http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yuku.com/topic/8659/Is-The-Necklace-Really-a-Smoking-Gun

Being chilling is still not enough evidence for me. There was no DNA from the boys anywhere. Terry was the last one seen with the boys and he also had a shaky alibi, plus his DNA and people confessions. Some of his family members and his ex wife want probing. I wish it was possible to look further into Terry and Byers. There's way too much circumstantial evidence on Byers. He was high on medicine during his polygraph so it might've affected his results.

Yes I mentioned earlier that Aaron pointed the finger at WM3 after watching tv but before all that he indicated Byers. In a later interview he said he might have fabricated some of it.
A-yUUEw-Wrc


Do we know for sure whether Jesse passed or failed his polygraph? I've read conflicting stories on that, one says he passed but the Police told him he failed and that's when he confessed and on other sites I read that he actually failed it. Also, did Damien and Jason ever take Polygraphs? On West of Memphis they say that Terry refused to do one which is suspicious I think

[Ammi]

Those names don't ring a bell with me......I thought I'd read everything about the case at this stage :laugh: I'm going to read up on that

So I watched West of Memphis last night. Ugh I know Damien was involved in the making of this one so I had that firmly in my mind while watching it...i have to say though it still swayed me a bit, out of all the PLs and devils Knot, this one really made me think they didn't do it. Also Eddie Vedder was in this one so that was a bonus :amazed:

Ammi & CeeCee if you haven't watched that one yet, do it.

They put forward the argument that alot of the injuries to the boys may have happened after they died and were in the water, including the emasculation of Chris Byers (I really hope that they're right too, poor child :( ) They showed examples of what Turtle bites and clawing looked like and they were almost identical to the marks on the boys and apparently that area was full of turtles

I was finally a bit swayed on the possibility of it being Terry as well although Pam still seems like a really unreliable source to me :think:

I felt so sorry for her and Terrys daughter, I feel like she may have suffered the most because of the murders

A couple of things that weren't clear to me though, was it only Jesse's statement that made people think the boys had been raped or was there evidence of this? (I'm really hoping that didn't happen to them either)

And also, the whole blue candle wax on one of the boys clothes, that doesn't seem to ever be mentioned much but it's always one thing I keep coming back to




....hmmmm chores and ironing or West of Memphis today, I'll have to give it some thought....I'll report back my findings on West of Memphis later...x....


....with Chris Morgan and Brian Holland..?..I can't recall which site because like you two ladies, I've read quite a bit now..:laugh:...but there is a huge court transcript conversation discussing Chris Morgan as a witness for the defence/which led me to wiki who he was...and he was an ice-cream van guy, who knew the boys and was often the area...the defence of him being allowed to testify is that he did actually (apparently) say that he may have killed them but wasn't sure because of his drug use and suffering blackouts and memory losses...so they polygraphed and the findings were that they felt he wasn't being truthful when asked direct questions about the killings...he and Brian Holland..(who I haven't had the chance to specifically google yet..)...both left 4 days after the murders to live in California...what a random thing to more or less, confess that he might have something to do with killing them though.../these townsfolk are so odd....


...one thing with this case for me though is that it's such a great example of the death penalty just never being a thing ever...it's so long to be carried out anyway to allow for possible new evidence to come to light... so then would seem pointless because rehabilitation in that time is so possible also...it's an easy kneejerk with heinous crimes such as this, I understand that...but it's just always wrong for me....

[Ammi]

Do we know for sure whether Jesse passed or failed his polygraph? I've read conflicting stories on that, one says he passed but the Police told him he failed and that's when he confessed and on other sites I read that he actually failed it. Also, did Damien and Jason ever take Polygraphs? On West of Memphis they say that Terry refused to do one which is suspicious I think

...not sure if I actually saw Jason take one but Damien definitely did because I saw it on one of the vids..it didn't show the actual questioning though, just him wired up to the polygraph machine in the interview room...

[Ammi]

.....eeeek don't hate me CeeCee but I still think that Damien seems like quite a dark person in his thoughts../I wwas looking at some of his artwork yesterday and it has a very dark feel to it....(disclaimer CeeCee.: that doesn't equal killer though/just a little side comment...)...

[ChristmasNeeve]

...not sure if I actually saw Jason take one but Damien definitely did because I saw it on one of the vids..it didn't show the actual questioning though, just him wired up to the polygraph machine in the interview room...

and what was the result?

[ChristmasNeeve]

....hmmmm chores and ironing or West of Memphis today, I'll have to give it some thought....I'll report back my findings on West of Memphis later...x....


....with Chris Morgan and Brian Holland..?..I can't recall which site because like you two ladies, I've read quite a bit now..:laugh:...but there is a huge court transcript conversation discussing Chris Morgan as a witness for the defence/which led me to wiki who he was...and he was an ice-cream van guy, who knew the boys and was often the area...the defence of him being allowed to testify is that he did actually (apparently) say that he may have killed them but wasn't sure because of his drug use and suffering blackouts and memory losses...so they polygraphed and the findings were that they felt he wasn't being truthful when asked direct questions about the killings...he and Brian Holland..(who I haven't had the chance to specifically google yet..)...both left 4 days after the murders to live in California...what a random thing to more or less, confess that he might have something to do with killing them though.../these townsfolk are so odd....


...one thing with this case for me though is that it's such a great example of the death penalty just never being a thing ever...it's so long to be carried out anyway to allow for possible new evidence to come to light... so then would seem pointless because rehabilitation in that time is so possible also...it's an easy kneejerk with heinous crimes such as this, I understand that...but it's just always wrong for me....

Oh yeah the ice Cream van guy. Was he the one who had asked Pam for a photo of Stevie? Who was that actually and again going back to the weirdness of these people, imagine some guy asks for a photo of your 8 year old son and you give it to him? How odd

[Ammi]

and what was the result?

...I think that they thought he was lying when he said that he had no part in ...but it did brush over it like it was such an unimportant/trivial bit ...they really had no evidence at all hen you think about it...Aaron and Jessy being completely unreliable witnesses and no DNA or anything else...(and yes, what you said...I hope that much of it was done after the children were dead..:sad:...)...


...oh actually did we cover the pen knife that Pam Hobbs found after she started to suspect Terry as a possibility..?...that had been given to Stevie by his granddad and that he always had with him..she was certain that he would have had it that day and she found it in the attack in a toolbox thing that Terry had, so how did he have it....

[Ammi]

Oh yeah the ice Cream van guy. Was he the one who had asked Pam for a photo of Stevie? Who was that actually and again going back to the weirdness of these people, imagine some guy asks for a photo of your 8 year old son and you give it to him? How odd

..yeah, just handing over a photo of your child is so weird and the thing is that she felt it was a weird request but still did it..?...I don't think it was him because I hadn't heard him mentioned until I saw the court transcript conversation when the judge wouldn't allow him testify...(I can't actually recall who it was now though, who asked for the photo/my brain is overloaded...)...

[ChristmasNeeve]

scroll down the page in this link and there's a list of everyone polygraphed and the results

http://www.jivepuppi.com/polygraph.html

[Ammi]

...anyways, going to do some chores now and then try to watch West of Memphis..x...

[Ammi]

scroll down the page in this link and there's a list of everyone polygraphed and the results

http://www.jivepuppi.com/polygraph.html

...oh that was the phrase 'deception indicated'...and no mention of Chris Morgan having taken one but I read that he did/I'll try to find that again...nice to see how the police add their bits and personal opinions on their report ...with Jessie, 'lying his ass off'...

[ChristmasNeeve]

...oh that was the phrase 'deception indicated'...and no mention of Chris Morgan having taken one but I read that he did/I'll try to find that again...nice to see how the police add their bits and personal opinions on their report ...with Jessie, 'lying his ass off'...

I don't see Jason on that list either :think:

[Ammi]

...actually wouldn't Jessie's have showed 'deception indicated' anyway just because he was so confused in his statement and that's what makes his whole statement so unreliable...it was first between 5-6pm but then changed to around noon...(a huge difference in time..)...but then when he was told that they would be in school at noon, he then said between 6-7pm because it was getting dark at the time...so how could it ever have been confused to being noon..?...

[ChristmasNeeve]

...I think that they thought he was lying when he said that he had no part in ...but it did brush over it like it was such an unimportant/trivial bit ...they really had no evidence at all hen you think about it...Aaron and Jessy being completely unreliable witnesses and no DNA or anything else...(and yes, what you said...I hope that much of it was done after the children were dead..:sad:...)...


...oh actually did we cover the pen knife that Pam Hobbs found after she started to suspect Terry as a possibility..?...that had been given to Stevie by his granddad and that he always had with him..she was certain that he would have had it that day and she found it in the attack in a toolbox thing that Terry had, so how did he have it....

Do we know what the timeline on that is? In Devils Knot, they made it seem like Pam found it right after the trial and then she left Terry but I'm sure she was married to Terry for years after, odd that she would stay with him whilst thinking he murdered her child

[Ammi]

I don't see Jason on that list either :think:

..and that would make absolutely no sense at all, to polygraph two suspects but not the third one so some must be missing from that list and why would that be.../odd...

[ChristmasNeeve]

Also, I like Jason alot, more than most of the people involved in the case. He really comes across as genuine to me :think:

[Ammi]

Do we know what the timeline on that is? In Devils Knot, they made it seem like Pam found it right after the trial and then she left Terry but I'm sure she was married to Terry for years after, odd that she would stay with him whilst thinking he murdered her child

..I'm not entirely sure of the timeline during the trail or afterwards from the movie...but she found it during the trial when she started to feel that Terry was just enjoying the limelight with reporters ..(and in the movie..)...she showed it to the investigator that the defence had hired..(which was Colin Firth..)..just after the trial...it then showed her leaving Terry/taking her things from the house and driving away but it didn't at what the time that had lapsed in between.../just that she carried on in her quest for the truth...

[Ammi]

Also, I like Jason alot, more than most of the people involved in the case. He really comes across as genuine to me :think:

..I honestly don't know, I mean we'll never know probably...(and awwww, Jessie just didn't want any media attention at all and went back to construction at home..)...is it awful though to say that even if they were found to be guilty/conclusively and such an evil crime...?..that they seem rehabilitated now because they were barely children themselves at the time, so I would still think it right that they were released...

[ChristmasNeeve]

..I'm not entirely sure of the timeline during the trail or afterwards from the movie...but she found it during the trial when she started to feel that Terry was just enjoying the limelight with reporters ..(and in the movie..)...she showed it to the investigator that the defence had hired..(which was Colin Firth..)..just after the trial...it then showed her leaving Terry/taking her things from the house and driving away but it didn't at what the time that had lapsed in between.../just that she carried on in her quest for the truth...

This sounds like it was soon after the murders but I'm sure she was with him for years afterwards, this is another reason why I find her very unreliable

17. Additionally, after the Murders my sister Jo Lynn McCauhey and I found in Terry's nightstand a knife that Stevie carried with him constantly and which I had believed was with him when he died. It was a pocket knife that my father had given to Stevie, and Stevie loved that knife. I had been shocked that the police did not find it with Stevie when they found his body. I had always assumed that my son's murderer had taken the knife during the crime. I could not believe it was in Terry's things. He had never told me that he had it.

http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/p_hobbs_declaration1.html

[ChristmasNeeve]

..I honestly don't know, I mean we'll never know probably...(and awwww, Jessie just didn't want any media attention at all and went back to construction at home..)...is it awful though to say that even if they were found to be guilty/conclusively and such an evil crime...?..that they seem rehabilitated now because they were barely children themselves at the time, so I would still think it right that they were released...

Oh God, no, I would be so the opposite on that one Ammi, no way. Why should anyone who took away the lives of 3 little boys ever be given a second chance? rehabilitated or not?

[Vicky.]

PDAs. Was reminded of a pretty grim night at work featuring one of these by a thread on here.

[ChristmasNeeve]

...CeeCee/Niamh...also, Chris Morgan and Brian Holland who left the town just 4 days after the children were killed..?...Chris suffered from blackouts and memory losses at the time with drug abuse and didn't their polygraph tests come back dodgy...

Reading up abit on them now, Bobby Deangelo was the guy who apparently asked for a photo of Stevie, he visited Pam & Terrys the day after the boys were found with Chris Morgan, these 2 are suspicious I think :think:

http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yuku.com/topic/4088/Chris-MorganBrian-Holland#.V_JC8_krJMw

[Ammi]

...^^...I'll see what I can find about those three later../Brian Holland as well...


...I'm just watching West of Memphis atm...


..I thought that I should spoiler this...what I don't understand is the turtles/wildlife in the river and the area...it makes sense what they say and how the mutilations could have happened but once those images were planted/described etc ...then it built up horrendous torture, which led to 'satanic/evil'...but one of the big things with the trial was that cuts had been done with such precision and that was by an expert witness and saying that it was someone who had knife skills/type thing...the skinning of the genitals/penis...so how could he have got it so wrong if it was turtles biting...?..it just doesn't make sense at all...he was an expert witness...

[ChristmasNeeve]

...not sure if I actually saw Jason take one but Damien definitely did because I saw it on one of the vids..it didn't show the actual questioning though, just him wired up to the polygraph machine in the interview room...

Found this on Jason and the Polygraph

I'm fairly certain he did not...his mom gave him specific instructions to not talk to the police, as she knew the police were investigating Jason and according to her, telling others teenagers that Jason was in the "cult", etc..etc...that's why he didn't make an official statement once he was arrested and why he didn't take a poly.

If am I not mistaken, the only time Jason spoke with the police is when a couple of officers approached Jason and Damien outside Jason's residence and asked them the items that were on the questionnaire.........

May I ask why you are interested in the poly's and who passed/failed?

http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yuku.com/topic/7864/The-lie-detector-questions#.V_JlIfkrJMw

[ChristmasNeeve]

...^^...I'll see what I can find about those three later../Brian Holland as well...


...I'm just watching West of Memphis atm...


..I thought that I should spoiler this...what I don't understand is the turtles/wildlife in the river and the area...it makes sense what they say and how the mutilations could have happened but once those images were planted/described etc ...then it built up horrendous torture, which led to 'satanic/evil'...but one of the big things with the trial was that cuts had been done with such precision and that was by an expert witness and saying that it was someone who had knife skills/type thing...the skinning of the genitals/penis...so how could he have got it so wrong if it was turtles biting...?..it just doesn't make sense at all...he was an expert witness...

I don't know really Ammi, I think that particular witness was state chosen though. I guess they're saying that that witness was saying what the prosecution wanted him to?

[Ammi]

Found this on Jason and the Polygraph

I'm fairly certain he did not...his mom gave him specific instructions to not talk to the police, as she knew the police were investigating Jason and according to her, telling others teenagers that Jason was in the "cult", etc..etc...that's why he didn't make an official statement once he was arrested and why he didn't take a poly.

If am I not mistaken, the only time Jason spoke with the police is when a couple of officers approached Jason and Damien outside Jason's residence and asked them the items that were on the questionnaire.........

May I ask why you are interested in the poly's and who passed/failed?

http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yuku.com/topic/7864/The-lie-detector-questions#.V_JlIfkrJMw

I don't know really Ammi, I think that particular witness was state chosen though. I guess they're saying that that witness was saying what the prosecution wanted him to?

...I am starting to have thoughts now similar to the Avery/Dassey case that the police and investigators may have genuinely thought that they were guilty but may have slanted the whole case and evidence etc to ensure much less chance of them being found innocent by the jury.../that they just couldn't risk it..?...so corruption there as well possibly...it still doesn't mean that they didn't do it if their arrests and trial were tampered with though so this is the rub../I keep swinging back and forth...

[ChristmasNeeve]

...I am starting to have thoughts now similar to the Avery/Dassey case that the police and investigators may have genuinely thought that they were guilty but may have slanted the whole case and evidence etc to ensure much less chance of them being found innocent by the jury.../that they just couldn't risk it..?...so corruption there as well possibly...it still doesn't mean that they didn't do it if their arrests and trial were tampered with though so this is the rub../I keep swinging back and forth...

I'm trying to think of what actual evidence they have on Jason and Damien besides Jessies confession (which wasn't allowed to be brought up at their trial because he recanted it and wouldn't testify which is also a weird likeness to the Avery/Dassey case) There's talk of blue candle wax found on one of the boys shirts that matched similar blue candles found in Damien's room but I can't really figure out if this is true or not :think:

ETA : Re The Candle wax

http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yuku.com/topic/1841/Blue-Candle-Wax-Question?page=1#.V_Jum_krJMw

[Ammi]

I'm trying to think of what actual evidence they have on Jason and Damien besides Jessies confession (which wasn't allowed to be brought up at their trial because he recanted it and wouldn't testify which is also a weird likeness to the Avery/Dassey case) There's talk of blue candle wax found on one of the boys shirts that matched similar blue candles found in Damien's room but I can't really figure out if this is true or not :think:

ETA : Re The Candle wax

http://westmemphisthreediscussion.yuku.com/topic/1841/Blue-Candle-Wax-Question?page=1#.V_Jum_krJMw

...I found this on the candle wax, they said that they found some on one of the children's shirts...but they were specifically looking for links to a satanic killing../Damien had been asked what would be present at a satanic killing and he had told them some things, candles being one of those things...but had they really found some though../was it more a determination to find something/anything to link Satanism...


http://www.jivepuppi.com/wax.html


...Amanda, Stevie's sister..:sad:...just tragic for her life as well...

...just going back to Stevie's penknife and the timeline that you mentioned earlier...?...it didn't show in the movie that she had 'found' that in his stuff when she and Terry's marriage broke down and she was about to leave him...and I imagine much bitterness, so maybe she was purposefully trying to incriminate him...?...his explanation seemed reasonable of taking it from Stevie because he felt he was too young to have it...(not because he was being a responsible parent or for any concern..)...but he could have taken it our of spite and to 'punish' Stevie for something...?...he really is quite brutal and quite disturbing...and there are huge doubts about his timelines with his friend, David Jacobi...(but brutal and disturbing still don't necessarily make killer...)...this is all starting to look really different though...(now I'm getting convinced of their innocence..)....



...ahhhh this though in West of Memphis..


OvZ4SnXSdYs

[ChristmasNeeve]

...^^...I'll see what I can find about those three later../Brian Holland as well...


...I'm just watching West of Memphis atm...


..I thought that I should spoiler this...what I don't understand is the turtles/wildlife in the river and the area...it makes sense what they say and how the mutilations could have happened but once those images were planted/described etc ...then it built up horrendous torture, which led to 'satanic/evil'...but one of the big things with the trial was that cuts had been done with such precision and that was by an expert witness and saying that it was someone who had knife skills/type thing...the skinning of the genitals/penis...so how could he have got it so wrong if it was turtles biting...?..it just doesn't make sense at all...he was an expert witness...

Wow Chris Morgan told Police that he may have blacked out and killed the boys and asked for a hypnotist :/

[ChristmasNeeve]

...I found this on the candle wax, they said that they found some on one of the children's shirts...but they were specifically looking for links to a satanic killing../Damien had been asked what would be present at a satanic killing and he had told them some things, candles being one of those things...but had they really found some though../was it more a determination to find something/anything to link Satanism...


http://www.jivepuppi.com/wax.html


...Amanda, Stevie's sister..:sad:...just tragic for her life as well...

...just going back to Stevie's penknife and the timeline that you mentioned earlier...?...it didn't show in the movie that she had 'found' that in his stuff when she and Terry's marriage broke down and she was about to leave him...and I imagine much bitterness, so maybe she was purposefully trying to incriminate him...?...his explanation seemed reasonable of taking it from Stevie because he felt he was too young to have it...(not because he was being a responsible parent or for any concern..)...but he could have taken it our of spite and to 'punish' Stevie for something...?...he really is quite brutal and quite disturbing...and there are huge doubts about his timelines with his friend, David Jacobi...(but brutal and disturbing still don't necessarily make killer...)...this is all starting to look really different though...(now I'm getting convinced of their innocence..)....



...ahhhh this though in West of Memphis..


OvZ4SnXSdYs

I love Eddie so much :flutter:

Yeah, thing about it is Terry has a nasty history but so does Mark Byers and Damien was in and out of mental Institutes, none of that proves that any of them were responsible for this though

I'm really leaning towards Chris Morgan/Holland maybe DeAngelo. I know the whole of Aarons statement was probably BS but what if it wasn't, what if he was telling the truth except he was pushed into saying it was Damien when it wasn't? He said the men were having sex with eachother and Morgan admitted to having atleast 1 homosexual encounter in the past

[Ammi]

I love Eddie so much :flutter:

Yeah, thing about it is Terry has a nasty history but so does Mark Byers and Damien was in and out of mental Institutes, none of that proves that any of them were responsible for this though

I'm really leaning towards Chris Morgan/Holland maybe DeAngelo. I know the whole of Aarons statement was probably BS but what if it wasn't, what if he was telling the truth except he was pushed into saying it was Damien when it wasn't? He said the men were having sex with eachother and Morgan admitted to having atleast 1 homosexual encounter in the past

...yeah I just keep swaying with this one because it's also so plausible with Terry/that he accidently killed him when he was punishing him and then had to cover it up by killing the other two children...Terry breaking into that neighbour's house and grabbing her...lots of disturbing stuff about him...oh and his aunt said that she saw him washing clothes and using bleach...and she'd never seen him wash anything before...

[Marsh.]

It's such a tragedy when one sibling sucks all of the talent from the womb before the siblings get a chance.

[ChristmasNeeve]

...yeah I just keep swaying with this one because it's also so plausible with Terry/that he accidently killed him when he was punishing him and then had to cover it up by killing the other two children...Terry breaking into that neighbour's house and grabbing her...lots of disturbing stuff about him...oh and his aunt said that she saw him washing clothes and using bleach...and she'd never seen him wash anything before...

Yeah but what bothers me is Pam and the sister only started claiming all that years later when Pam divorced Terry, why not say that at the time? Surely if your nephew was just murdered and you saw his step dad (who you knew had a strained relationship with your nephew) the day of the murders washing his clothes in bleach, alarms might have started ringing and you would think it's information that needed to be told right then and not years later?

[Ammi]

It's such a tragedy when one sibling sucks all of the talent from the womb before the siblings get a chance.

...yeah, silly selfish siblings..treating it all like a hotel and their mum's only there for their own personal womb service...

[Ammi]

Yeah but what bothers me is Pam and the sister only started claiming all that years later when Pam divorced Terry, why not say that at the time? Surely if your nephew was just murdered and you saw his step dad (who you knew had a strained relationship with your nephew) the day of the murders washing his clothes in bleach, alarms might have started ringing and you would think it's information that needed to be told right then and not years later?

..yeah that's the same with the penknife and Pam that I said earlier../the timeline you mentioned..?..she only 'found it' in Terry's stuff as she was about to leave him and was possibly very bitter...she'd said that it was so special to Stevie, given by his granddad and that he too it everywhere..?...but she didn't ask the police to have it back..she 'assumed' they had it or it was lost but she didn't ask..something so personal and precious belonging to her son, doesn't that seem odd as well..?...(although he did have it because he admitted that..)...and if he's to be believed and he took it from him on some occasion previously, then she hadn't known it was gone either/Stevie hadn't told her...but then he would possibly be scared to/scared of Terry ....what did you think of Terry's nephew Michael saying that Terry had admitted it.../killing them...?...

[ChristmasNeeve]

..yeah that's the same with the penknife and Pam that I said earlier../the timeline you mentioned..?..she only 'found it' in Terry's stuff as she was about to leave him and was possibly very bitter...she'd said that it was so special to Stevie, given by his granddad and that he too it everywhere..?...but she didn't ask the police to have it back..she 'assumed' they had it or it was lost but she didn't ask..something so personal and precious belonging to her son, doesn't that seem odd as well..?...(although he did have it because he admitted that..)...and if he's to be believed and he took it from him on some occasion previously, then she hadn't known it was gone either/Stevie hadn't told her...but then he would possibly be scared to/scared of Terry ....what did you think of Terry's nephew Michael saying that Terry had admitted it.../killing them...?...

Ugh I just don't know really, they just all seem like liars, the whole bloody town :laugh: That's not to say he isn't being truthful but there's so much gossip and "confessions" and whispers

[ChristmasNeeve]

I would actually completely discount Mark Byers, he seems to have a well verified alibi

ETA : actually the alibi around the time of the murders is only corroborated by his other step son Ryan and his wife hhmmm

Grim

"He claimed that Ryan told him on a number of occasions that his step-father had been in on the murder of the three children in West Memphis, AR, Stevie Branch, Chris Byers, and Michael Moore."

"Mandy concluded her statement by discussing how Byers told her that he burned down Brenda Atwood's trailer. She alleged that he told her how he had put gasoline all around the trailer and then used a cigarette as a fuse. "She advised he told her a cigarette made a excellent fuse, that you could light it, and due to slow burning, it would give you time to get away. She advised that Byers told her that Melissa had knowledge of this and she is dead now and dead people can't talk." Mandy also stated that Ryan had assisted in the burglary of the Atwood home."

http://forgetthelies.weebly.com/melissa-byers.html

[ChristmasNeeve]

We'll have to do the Amanda Knox case next girls :laugh:

[Ammi]

...I found this site with some of the questioning of Chris Morgan and Brian Holland.../it's all I could find...


http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/cm_bh_opd_report.html


...I was thinking though about the polygraphs in general..and I read on one of the sites that it was unusual for a small town like that to have a polygraph but they had been given it on a previous occasion and no one was really trained fully in using it I don't think....or it could have been a dodgy machine and that's why they were given it..:laugh:...

[Ammi]

We'll have to do the Amanda Knox case next girls :laugh:

.....hmmmmm, well funny you should say that because this is one I've been looking to watch as well in the last few days...:laugh:...


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2380247/

[ChristmasNeeve]

.....hmmmmm, well funny you should say that because this is one I've been looking to watch as well in the last few days...:laugh:...


http://www.imdb.com/title/tt2380247/

Oh that looks interesting and atleast we'll know who actually did it at the end of that one. This not knowing the answer is killing me :fist:

If you get time you should watch some of this Ammi. Jason seems like such a good guy, I just can't believe he did it. I was thinking also, he says here that just before he got arrested he'd finsihed school for good and he was due to start work bagging groceries at a local shop. I know this sounds awful if he's not guilty but he came from a pretty poor, trailer trashy background and he probably would never have gotten as well educated had he not gone to prison and taken all them classes and gotten some decent work experience in there

GYrZmIKU5rM

[Christmas Dynasnow]

We'll have to do the Amanda Knox case next girls :laugh:


innocent queen

:hmph:

[ChristmasNeeve]

...I found this site with some of the questioning of Chris Morgan and Brian Holland.../it's all I could find...


http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/cm_bh_opd_report.html


...I was thinking though about the polygraphs in general..and I read on one of the sites that it was unusual for a small town like that to have a polygraph but they had been given it on a previous occasion and no one was really trained fully in using it I don't think....or it could have been a dodgy machine and that's why they were given it..:laugh:...

imo those two, Terry Hobbs, John Mark byers all could be guilty but there's just not enough to go forward and charge any of them. There's the hair from Terry but even that, I mean it's a hair, I reckon if you checked any of my kids they'd probably have a hair of mine on them somewhere too, they get everywhere, it doesn't prove that he was actually there when they were murdered imo

Just reading through the interviews with Holland and Morgan though, they sound so dodgy :/

[ChristmasNeeve]

innocent queen

:hmph:

:laugh:

I actually haven't really read up on much of that case

[Ammi]

Oh that looks interesting and atleast we'll know who actually did it at the end of that one. This not knowing the answer is killing me :fist:

If you get time you should watch some of this Ammi. Jason seems like such a good guy, I just can't believe he did it. I was thinking also, he says here that just before he got arrested he'd finsihed school for good and he was due to start work bagging groceries at a local shop. I know this sounds awful if he's not guilty but he came from a pretty poor, trailer trashy background and he probably would never have gotten as well educated had he not gone to prison and taken all them classes and gotten some decent work experience in there

GYrZmIKU5rM

imo those two, Terry Hobbs, John Mark byers all could be guilty but there's just not enough to go forward and charge any of them. There's the hair from Terry but even that, I mean it's a hair, I reckon if you checked any of my kids they'd probably have a hair of mine on them somewhere too, they get everywhere, it doesn't prove that he was actually there when they were murdered imo



....yeah, I think especially after West Memphis, more so than anything else..Jason, Damien and Jessie felt almost the least guilty in a way, in that their lives seemed the least worrying than many others...there was a lot of mental illnesses in the town it would seem so many people on medication or in drug use at the time...and all of that is said to have effects on the lie detector as well, so I'm starting to take no store in that as any evidence of anything with any of them...it was a bit sad at the end, Damien seems to have such an air of sadness about him but also seems to be quite 'peaceful' as well...I'm glad that he has his relationship and had someone to believe in him...I really like Jason a lot and can also see why he strongly didn't want to take the Afford plea but only did for Jason...that in itself/that he wanted to reject it may be quite telling of their innocence...Jessie just didn't seem any different at all so maybe good in that he survived prison and then just went home....

...just awful to think though that whoever killed those children will probably never answer for it ....


...we need an unsolved crime case thread..:laugh:..

[ChristmasNeeve]

....yeah, I think especially after West Memphis, more so than anything else..Jason, Damien and Jessie felt almost the least guilty in a way, in that their lives seemed the least worrying than many others...there was a lot of mental illnesses in the town it would seem so many people on medication or in drug use at the time...and all of that is said to have effects on the lie detector as well, so I'm starting to take no store in that as any evidence of anything with any of them...it was a bit sad at the end, Damien seems to have such an air of sadness about him but also seems to be quite 'peaceful' as well...I'm glad that he has his relationship and had someone to believe in him...I really like Jason a lot and can also see why he strongly didn't want to take the Afford plea but only did for Jason...that in itself/that he wanted to reject it may be quite telling of their innocence...Jessie just didn't seem any different at all so maybe good in that he survived prison and then just went home....

...just awful to think though that whoever killed those children will probably never answer for it ....


...we need an unsolved crime case thread..:laugh:..

I know, I probably should move all these posts out of here really :laugh:

To me, Jason and Damien seem like the most intelligent and sane of almost everyone involved in the case (even with Damiens mental illness records)

ETA : Look how nice Jasons teeth are now, I wonder did he get those fixed in prison? they were awful while his trial was going on :laugh:

[Ammi]

I know, I probably should move all these posts out of here really :laugh:

To me, Jason and Damien seem like the most intelligent and sane of almost everyone involved in the case (even with Damiens mental illness records)

ETA : Look how nice Jasons teeth are now, I wonder did he get those fixed in prison? they were awful while his trial was going on :laugh:

...yeah I noticed that as well and thought hmmmmm, is that a mum thing to think...:laugh:...with 18 years in there, they could have come out and been totally unadjusted but very much influenced people around them while they were there...and yeah, in a strange sort of way, they've just got so many possibilities open to them now.../taking as much positive as they could...and considering their childhoods and lack of education, it's really quite remarkable.../they must be quite remarkable in their character...

[Thotmas]

^nope not a mum thing. Noticed both Damien and Jason has straighter teeth. But then Damien said Jason was beginning to enjoy it in there and was looking forward to the next years before they talked about being exonerated.

[ChristmasNeeve]

^nope not a mum thing. Noticed both Damien and Jason has straighter teeth. But then Damien said Jason was beginning to enjoy it in there and was looking forward to the next years before they talked about being exonerated.

He seemed to take a lot out of prison, with his education, work experience etc ...which is a strange way to think about Prison but good especially if he is innocent

[Thotmas]

He seemed to take a lot out of prison, with his education, work experience etc ...which is a strange way to think about Prison but good especially if he is innocent

Yes. Looks like he had an OK experience compared to Damien.

Do you know what I find strange is that Jessie has cut all ties with everyone. He apparently lives a sheltered life, he doesn't even own a phone. He went back to Arkansas where the crimes happened because that's where his family is. Sometimes I wonder if that's the truth. Sometimes I wonder if people want him away and quiet just in case he talks again.

But-I'm still undecided. Unless someone comes out and makes an honest confession we might never know.
Did you watch their press conference the day of the release? Damien looked so vulnerable. Jason well spoken. Bless he didn't want to accept the deal but did it so Damien wouldn't be executed. Jason wanted to practice law to prevent others from going through what they did but he can't because they aren't fully exonerated.

Touching on what Ammi said about him looking cold, distant during the trials- he confirmed that before the murders police were always hounding him, on his tail because of various things so when they came to get him and Jason for the murders he just thought same old thing, same old routine and he figured sooner or later they would figure out they were innocent, only they didn't and they ended up locked up

Sick side note- Damien Echols is kind of cute, so well spoken :shame: :sad:

Interesting interview. Kind of want to read his book life after death

zBfs3N2sehg

[Thotmas]

16uZbbqtdVQ

Lori and Damien, the woman he married while on death row. They were never allowed physical contact. I wonder if he will stick with her now that he knows freedom. He certainly owes her a lot

[Ammi]

...I guess what I was left with is that someone/some people in that town killed those three children...as opposed to someone passing through/a stranger because to do something like that, would they have not killed again..that surely wouldn't be a 'one off' thing to do, I mean that just wouldn't make sense...there was such a lack of any evidence/forensics ..one of the musicians (I can't recall which one..)...said something like ..Damien/a bit of a loner/a bit of a 'misfit'/never really fitting into the town and the musician relating to that as something he felt as a teenager as well, so that capturing his interest in the case...I think that's something so many people can relate to though..it's not that untypical...anyways in trying to prove their innocence, it was then looking at the town's people and maybe slanting 'sinister' with that...but I would think that many lives their were also typical of small towns as well...a bit disturbing in some cases and aggression/lots of issues etc...it's only because something like this happened that it's scrutinised so much ...but I wonder if in so many towns, they would al seem quite 'average'...


...it's horrible, the thought that someone/some people are out there and have been for all of this time, who did this to those children...I think maybe they just wanted accountability quickly for the families and didn't have the resources..a polygraph that no one was really trained in using../'expert' witnesses who who were nothing more than enthusiasts, really...and maybe if there had been any real evidence of importance..?..they could have ruined it/overlooked it in their inefficiencies...I don't know...but as much as I'm really happy for Jason, Damien and Jessie if they are innocent ..that they finally have freedom...I can't really feel support/warmth toward them..(I don't know how to say it..)... just in case they did kill them....


..I guess that we're not all equal/all lives aren't equal because if those three children had been born in a city with the resources and the expertise and the policing etc...would their killers have been absolutely sure and been brought to justice...but they were born where they were and just something the town was unable to cope with to ensure justice for them..?...


..it's just all so sad...

[ChristmasNeeve]

Yes. Looks like he had an OK experience compared to Damien.

Do you know what I find strange is that Jessie has cut all ties with everyone. He apparently lives a sheltered life, he doesn't even own a phone. He went back to Arkansas where the crimes happened because that's where his family is. Sometimes I wonder if that's the truth. Sometimes I wonder if people want him away and quiet just in case he talks again.

But-I'm still undecided. Unless someone comes out and makes an honest confession we might never know.
Did you watch their press conference the day of the release? Damien looked so vulnerable. Jason well spoken. Bless he didn't want to accept the deal but did it so Damien wouldn't be executed. Jason wanted to practice law to prevent others from going through what they did but he can't because they aren't fully exonerated.

Touching on what Ammi said about him looking cold, distant during the trials- he confirmed that before the murders police were always hounding him, on his tail because of various things so when they came to get him and Jason for the murders he just thought same old thing, same old routine and he figured sooner or later they would figure out they were innocent, only they didn't and they ended up locked up

Sick side note- Damien Echols is kind of cute, so well spoken :shame: :sad:

Interesting interview. Kind of want to read his book life after death

zBfs3N2sehg

Yeah I guess life on death row is always going to be much tougher, he looked terrible in a few of the interviews you posted of him inside there.

Jessie is a strange one, could be he just wants to hide away and keep to himself after everything that happened or maybe he's being sheltered from interviews and such incase he slips up, don't think we'll ever know really. It's such a shame those little boys will never see any proper justice :(

I'll watch that interview in a bit, thanks

Re your side note yeah he is kind of cute but listen, that's the thing now isn't it?, he will always have that is he/isn't he a child murderer following him around which is horrible if he's innocent

16uZbbqtdVQ

Lori and Damien, the woman he married while on death row. They were never allowed physical contact. I wonder if he will stick with her now that he knows freedom. He certainly owes her a lot

I was thinking about that too actually, what if when he got out and actually lived with her he decided that he didn't want to be with her, he must almost feel obliged to which would be terrible if he didn't want to be. She's 15 years older than him too

...I guess what I was left with is that someone/some people in that town killed those three children...as opposed to someone passing through/a stranger because to do something like that, would they have not killed again..that surely wouldn't be a 'one off' thing to do, I mean that just wouldn't make sense...there was such a lack of any evidence/forensics ..one of the musicians (I can't recall which one..)...said something like ..Damien/a bit of a loner/a bit of a 'misfit'/never really fitting into the town and the musician relating to that as something he felt as a teenager as well, so that capturing his interest in the case...I think that's something so many people can relate to though..it's not that untypical...anyways in trying to prove their innocence, it was then looking at the town's people and maybe slanting 'sinister' with that...but I would think that many lives their were also typical of small towns as well...a bit disturbing in some cases and aggression/lots of issues etc...it's only because something like this happened that it's scrutinised so much ...but I wonder if in so many towns, they would al seem quite 'average'...


...it's horrible, the thought that someone/some people are out there and have been for all of this time, who did this to those children...I think maybe they just wanted accountability quickly for the families and didn't have the resources..a polygraph that no one was really trained in using../'expert' witnesses who who were nothing more than enthusiasts, really...and maybe if there had been any real evidence of importance..?..they could have ruined it/overlooked it in their inefficiencies...I don't know...but as much as I'm really happy for Jason, Damien and Jessie if they are innocent ..that they finally have freedom...I can't really feel support/warmth toward them..(I don't know how to say it..)... just in case they did kill them....


..I guess that we're not all equal/all lives aren't equal because if those three children had been born in a city with the resources and the expertise and the policing etc...would their killers have been absolutely sure and been brought to justice...but they were born where they were and just something the town was unable to cope with to ensure justice for them..?...


..it's just all so sad...

They said in one of the films that they didn't reckon it was someone from out of town because they would have had to have known the area plus no similar crimes happened after either

[Thotmas]

Not being able to sleep and randomly trying to decipher Shutter island even though you already kind of did all that time ago when you watched it

[Ammi]

Not being able to sleep and randomly trying to decipher Shutter island even though you already kind of did all that time ago when you watched it



..I love that movie...my irritation is often not being able to stay awake through stuff though and dosing off and then losing the plot which makes it hard to decipher...I was watching the first episode of Westworld last night, which seems to be a bit different to the movie so I had to follow it closely because a few things were confusing/or were less clear...anyways, then there was a bit with two characters that I hadn't seen before and I thought ugggghhh who are these people, this is even more confusing...then realised they were an Ikea advert, which is why I didn't recognise them...but yeah it's that thing where I can often drift off and miss crucial bits.../irritating...

[Thotmas]

..I love that movie...my irritation is often not being able to stay awake through stuff though and dosing off and then losing the plot which makes it hard to decipher...I was watching the first episode of Westworld last night, which seems to be a bit different to the movie so I had to follow it closely because a few things were confusing/or were less clear...anyways, then there was a bit with two characters that I hadn't seen before and I thought ugggghhh who are these people, this is even more confusing...then realised they were an Ikea advert, which is why I didn't recognise them...but yeah it's that thing where I can often drift off and miss crucial bits.../irritating...

:joker:

[Thotmas]

Looks like Kylie is taking over from her sister Kim Kartrashian and posing pointless selfies in underwear for attention but OMG the amount of people I'm saying saying see can we really blame Trump when there is this culture of young women that objectify themselves on social demanding male attention?? :conf: I disagree with that type of attention seeking from the Kartrashians and the like but whether a woman posts naked or in her underwear does not mean that she is asking to be grabbed by the Pussy!!!! Trumps words cannot be justified!!! :cloud:

[ChristmasNeeve]

Looks like Kylie is taking over from her sister Kim Kartrashian and posing pointless selfies in underwear for attention but OMG the amount of people I'm saying saying see can we really blame Trump when there is this culture of young women that objectify themselves on social demanding male attention?? :conf: I disagree with that type of attention seeking from the Kartrashians and the like but whether a woman posts naked or in her underwear does not mean that she is asking to be grabbed by the Pussy!!!! Trumps words cannot be justified!!! :cloud:

The fact that people are even trying to justify them makes me sick tbqh

[Thotmas]

The fact that people are even trying to justify them makes me sick tbqh

The world is sick. Internet has exposed how sick members of society are.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

The fact that people are even trying to justify them makes me sick tbqh

yes lets just kill him and everyone we dont like


:facepalm:

[ChristmasNeeve]

yes lets just kill him and everyone we dont like


:facepalm:

I said that we should kill people? where was this exactly?

[ChristmasNeeve]

The world is sick. Internet has exposed how sick members of society are.

I'm hoping that they're just alot louder than the good ones :laugh:

[Thotmas]

yes lets just kill him and everyone we dont like


:facepalm:

Small steps. Let's not make him President of US or act like he's a reasonable candidate first.

[Christmas Dynasnow]

Small steps. Let's not make him President of US or act like he's a reasonable candidate first.

Its nothing to do with us its the decision of people in America who chose to or can vote in the upcoming election

[Thotmas]

Its nothing to do with us its the decision of people in America who chose to or can vote in the upcoming election

Which is why I said " or act like he's a reasonable candidate" which you do.


-----------------
Getting an interesting email from Ireland and then googling black people in Ireland to see what it would be like to live there. :joker: The search wasn't pretty.

[ChristmasNeeve]

Which is why I said " or act like he's a reasonable candidate" which you do.


-----------------
Getting an interesting email from Ireland and then googling black people in Ireland to see what it would be like to live there. :joker: The search wasn't pretty.

:suspect:

[ChristmasNeeve]

Which is why I said " or act like he's a reasonable candidate" which you do.


-----------------
Getting an interesting email from Ireland and then googling black people in Ireland to see what it would be like to live there. :joker: The search wasn't pretty.

Google black people in most countries and the result is largely negative..........I just tested that out

[Jessica.]

No normal person cares if anyone is black or white so it seems very strange to google that stuff. Obviously if you put labels on people you're going to end up seeing search results from people who aren't normal. :shrug:

[Thotmas]

No normal person cares if anyone is black or white so it seems very strange to google that stuff. Obviously if you put labels on people you're going to end up seeing search results from people who aren't normal. :shrug:

It's not strange if you have to face prejudice. It's very real. If you could be black for a week you'd understand.

[Thotmas]

Google black people in most countries and the result is largely negative..........I just tested that out

I know believe me :joker:

Which is why phrases like everybody wants to be a ***** but nobody wants to be a ***** exists. Everyone loves the culture just not black people. In China how many people rap, cornrow their hair etc but at the same time they hate black people and when it comes to their issues...well, triple lfmao :joker:

[Thotmas]

Why is Kim suing the black website when so many sites claim she's lying? Is she butt hurt because they usually kiss her fake ass? :joker:

I hope they lose. If not I guess more money on top of the insurance so Kanye will be debt free

[Thotmas]

Will Rafa Nadal get over his fear of change and get a new coach already :bawling: It did wonders for Djokovic and Murray. Your uncle can be a side coach. You need to make changes to your game. I'm not ready to see you slip further :bawling:

[Thotmas]

http://i.imgur.com/GshdCAc.jpg

[Thotmas]

Everybody on YouTube acting like the scalp massager shampoo brush is a necessity and making me want that ish! Shut up! You've been washing your hair with your fingers since prehistoric times, that device is not a necessity stop acting like you don't know how you survived without it before :bawling:

[Jessica.]

It's not strange if you have to face prejudice. It's very real. If you could be black for a week you'd understand.
I face prejudice all the time actually, and I have for my whole life. Prejudice is not limited to ethnicity, so you haven't really made a point.

[Thotmas]

I caved. So weak :bawling:

http://i.imgur.com/flpcnZI.gif

[Thotmas]

http://i.imgur.com/0Y3fmyo.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/Xri5wH5.jpg

[Jessica.]

I never said that racism didn't exist, I just said that it's not the only kind of prejudice and there is no type of prejudice that is worse than another, all prejudice is disgusting.

[Thotmas]

I never said that racism didn't exist, I just said that it's not the only kind of prejudice and there is no type of prejudice that is worse than another, all prejudice is disgusting.

What prejudice have you faced then?

[Thotmas]

Being sick

[ChristmasNeeve]

Hey CeeCee my brother showed me this earlier it made me think of you :laugh: Poor little girl is having none of Donald

There's a video in the link, go to around 42mins in

http://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/uselection/awkward-moment-donald-trump-tries-to-kiss-girl-at-republican-rally-and-shes-not-having-any-of-it/ar-AAj4QDQ?li=BBr5KbJ&ocid=mailsignout

[Thotmas]

Hey CeeCee my brother showed me this earlier it made me think of you :laugh: Poor little girl is having none of Donald

There's a video in the link, go to around 42mins in

http://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/uselection/awkward-moment-donald-trump-tries-to-kiss-girl-at-republican-rally-and-shes-not-having-any-of-it/ar-AAj4QDQ?li=BBr5KbJ&ocid=mailsignout

''Do you know that you're [MY African American]''

What was the point of that anyway? :rolleyes: Picking out random kids to say they're beautiful... He's aged a lot more already in the last few months.

[ChristmasNeeve]

''Do you know that you're [MY African American]''

What was the point of that anyway? :rolleyes: Picking out random kids to say they're beautiful... He's aged a lot more already in the last few months.

Cringy as ****, it just came across as so insincere

[Thotmas]

Nothing is sincere about this puto!!


.....................................

Aunti Wendy Williams hair is long but damaged from the wigs.
http://i.imgur.com/xKkPAKV.jpg

But her stylist said it could be from Thyroid issues. :conf:

Anyways just 2 ladies who get it right under them wigs. :dance:
http://i.imgur.com/LIwjI2w.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/mIeWHJu.png

I like this movement. It's up to us black ladies to squash that notion that if you wig or weave you bald as fook underneath. :dance:

[Ammi]

...^^^...that vid is so awkward...oooo I must get myself a small child...and then asking her, her name twice but getting her to say it into the microphone, could he not even absorb her name to introduce her, himself..../beautiful young lady though..:lovedup:...

[Thotmas]

^^it was so cringe





When itunes hasn't been syncing songs for weeks and you put off tackling it. Then when you finally try to tackle it, you fall asleep with the phone still on itunes and you wake up with update of IOS 9, which you've been avoiding at all cost
http://i.imgur.com/IoEzeC3.gif



till this day I still miss the simple process of blackberry. Drag and drop simple.

[Ammi]

^^it was so cringe





When itunes hasn't been syncing songs for weeks and you put off tackling it. Then when you finally try to tackle it, you fall asleep with the phone still on itunes and you wake up with update of IOS 9, which you've been avoiding at all cost
http://i.imgur.com/IoEzeC3.gif



till this day I still miss the simple process of blackberry. Drag and drop simple.

...simple movements like the drag and drop and the bend and snap, eh CeeCee...:flutter:...