[Crimson Dynamo]

Hospitals routinely allow male patients to share female wards if they self-identify as women, an investigation by The Telegraph has found.

Despite official guidance intended to eliminate mixed sex wards, none of the NHS trusts in England require a patient to have begun transition for them to be treated as their preferred sex, according to responses to more than 100 Freedom of Information requests.

One trust even advises staff to consult with the transgender patient if a female victim of sexual assault objects to sharing facilities with someone who may be biologically and legally male.

The NHS is unable to track how many transgender people are accommodated on wards for the opposite sex because data systems record them as their “preferred” sex.

The Department of Health’s “elimination of mixed sex wards” guidance upon which individual trusts must base their policies says that “men and women should not have to share sleeping accommodation or toilet/bathroom facilities”. But the document adds, “except where it is in the overall best interests of the patient or reflects their patient choice”.

As a result, a physically intact male has the right to choose to be treated on a ward for women that is simultaneously declared to be single sex.

David Davies, the Tory MP, described the guidance as “driving a coach and horses” through the need for single sex facilities. “It’s quite right that a Conservative government made a commitment to end mixed sex wards,” he said. “But people with male bodies should be on male wards.”



The Telegraph has been contacted by a nurse at a city hospital with a report of a patient identifying as a transgender woman who appeared to become sexually aroused on a female ward, causing distress to a group of elderly patients.

The incident raises concerns about the lack of “equality impact assessments” (EIAs) that should be undertaken by law to determine the effect on all groups that may be affected by transgender policy changes. EIAs seen by The Telegraph appear to have taken into account the impact only on transgender patients rather than on others who should also be considered because of their sex, age or religion.





“If you aren’t even considering other groups in your equality impact assessments, your policy cannot be lawful,” said Amanda Jones, a barrister at Great James Street Chambers. She described the NHS’s interpretation of the law with regard to the rights of transgender patients as “a mess”.

More than 80 per cent of people who identify as transgender do not undertake “gender reassignment” surgery, according to the Gender Identity Research & Education Society (GIRES), a charity that advises the Government.

Under the Gender Recognition Act 2004, transsexual people must live as the opposite sex for two years and be assessed by a medical panel following a diagnosis of gender dysphoria to qualify for a gender recognition certificate. Despite official estimates that the UK transgender population is between 200,000 and 500,000 or 0.7 per cent of the public, only around 5,000 certificates have ever been issued – and none of the trusts said they required transgender patients to have one.

Oxleas NHS Foundation Trust said it would class someone as transgender “without ever going to see a doctor”.

The definition of transgender within the NHS includes non-binary, gender-fluid, gender queer and non-gender – people who do not feel male or female. It means male patients who do not claim to live as women have the right to choose to stay on women’s wards.



Fewer than 10 trusts considered the needs of the majority of patients when allocating transgender patients to wards, with two more considering accommodation for transgender patients on a case-by-case basis. West Suffolk NHS Trust said the transgender patient’s right to be in a single sex environment of their preferred gender “supersedes objections raised by other patients” despite women and men having a right to segregated facilities under the Equality Act 2010. It said that while a female victim of sexual assault could “reasonably” object to being on the same ward as someone they “perceive to be male”, staff should “seek the view of the trans service user” before any action was taken.

Dr Nicola Williams of Fair Play for Women, said: “In an attempt to accommodate a minority, the state is sacrificing the needs of the majority at their most vulnerable.

“We have sex segregated facilities for a reason and I’m horrified those rights – for both sexes – have been removed without any consultation.”

Fewer than 10 trusts that replied reported complaints or incidents concerning transgender patients. But many pointed out that their systems allow patients to be defined only as male or female, with incidents or complaints involving transgender patients listed by their preferred sex.

A spokesman for NHS Improvement said: “As the guidance on mixed sex accommodation makes clear, decisions should be made in the best interests of all patients and based on the circumstances presented to NHS staff.”

A Stonewall spokesman said: “Everyone accessing healthcare services should be treated with respect, including trans people, who currently face huge levels of abuse in all areas of their lives. It’s important NHS trusts are working to ensure trans patients are treated equally because our research shows two in five trans people (37 per cent) avoid treatment for fear of discrimination.”

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/201...entify-female/

Its a long article post as its premium content

[bots]

Given the medical needs of patients are based on their biology, it shouldnt be rocket science to classify them on that basis too.

[Cherie]

How many women identifiying as men end up on a male ward I wonder

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Cherie

How many women identifiying as men end up on a male ward I wonder

All of them. But that wont send you and others into the frenzy that this article does so theres no point writing an article about it.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Withano

All of them. But that wont send you and others into the frenzy that this article does so theres no point writing an article about it.

How do you know that?

[Withano]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

How do you know that?

Because the NHS doesn’t discriminate

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Withano

All of them. But that wont send you and others into the frenzy that this article does so theres no point writing an article about it.

If you can give me some links and examples rather than your own thoughts that would be great

[Cherie]

here's a link for you Withano


https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...leap-pool.html


Can you provide some where females transitioning to males demanded to go into male prisons, male hospital wards etc of their own free will pre op of course

[thesheriff443]

You are lucky to get a bed let alone worrying who is on your ward.

Having to share a bed would be more of a concern, add to the fact old people are dying of starvation on wards, people need to pull their fingers out.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

You are lucky to get a bed let alone worrying who is on your ward.

Having to share a bed would be more of a concern, add to the fact old people are dying of starvation on wards, people need to pull their fingers out.

There are single sex wards for a reason you know, its about dignity, privacy and safety

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Cherie

There are single sex wards for a reason you know, its about dignity, privacy and safety

Have you been in any hospitals lately?

I’ve been in them, and seeing old people call out for help, or start choking on their own sick.

There are still male nurses on female wards. The male female wards consist of men on one side of a ward and women on another.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Have you been in any hospitals lately?

I’ve been in them, and seeing old people call out for help, or start choking on their own sick.

There are still male nurses on female wards. The male female wards consist of men on one side of a ward and women on another.

Yes I have and when someone rings the buzzer it takes about 20 minutes for someone to arrive, and that's not a one off its a regular thing, what have male nurses got to do with this, that is a totally different thing, a male nurse will have to have a female in attendance if he is attending to a female patient, and if any personal care is taking place two people have to be in attendance, this is for the protection of the patient and the staff so they can't be accused of anything.

What has elderly people choking on their own sick have to do with mixed wards?

I have not seen any mixed wards, but what difference does having the men on one side and women on the other make to personal safety, and dignity ?

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Yes I have and when someone rings the buzzer it takes about 20 minutes for someone to arrive, and that's not a one off its a regular thing. what have male nurses got to do with this, that is a totally different thing, a male nurse will have to have a female in attendance if he is attending to a female patient, and if any personal care is taking place two people have to be in attendance, this is for the protection of the patient and the staff so they can't be accused of anything.

What has elderly people choking on their own sick have to do with mixed wards?

I have not seen any mixed wards, but what difference does having the men on one side have and women on the other make to personal safety, and dignity ?

Well, if we go down the route of patients privacy dignity, have a male nurse is more intrusive than having a trans on your ward.

My view is stop the elderly needlessly suffering on ward first before kicking up a stick about tras people on a ward.

Priorities more than agendas

[Crimson Dynamo]

i was in a hospital last night and there are wards for men and wards for women for good reason.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

i was in a hospital last night and there are wards for men and wards for women for good reason.

What was you in hospital for?????

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

What was you in hospital for?????

Me old mum has been in for about 10 weeks now so I have had plenty of experience of hospitals and wards etc, well 2 big hospitals and countless wards

sick of them

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Me old mum has been in for about 10 weeks now so I have had plenty of experience of hospitals and wards etc, well 2 big hospitals and countless wards

sick of them

Sorry to hear that lt, was visiting someone in intensive care and on various wards throughout last year

[arista]

"a patient identifying as a transgender woman who appeared to become sexually aroused on a female ward, causing distress to a group of elderly patients."

Shocking

[thesheriff443]

You could go the road of saying I’m a man and I’m not staying on a ward with a gay man
Or with a woman saying I’m not staying on a ward with a lesbian.

People carry on like being trans is a choice an easy option.

Give them a break live and let live.

Wen you are old and on your all female ward and you been laying your own p1ss for hours then you realise how silly the trans argument is.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

You could go the road of saying I’m a man and I’m not staying on a ward with a gay man
Or with a woman saying I’m not staying on a ward with a lesbian.

People carry on like being trans is a choice an easy option.

Give them a break live and let live.

Wen you are old and on your all female ward and you been laying your own p1ss for hours then you realise how silly the trans argument is.

How is it silly to want to feel safe when you are at your most vulnerable.

I will ask you for a third time as you seem to have witnessed some terrible things during your hospital visits, did you fill in one of those...how did we do today cards, did you speak to the charge nurse, did you write to the Trust, what have you done to correct the wrongs you have witnessed?

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Cherie

How is it silly to want to feel safe when you are at your most vulnerable.

I will ask you for a third time as you seem to have witnessed some terrible things during your hospital visits, did you fill in one of those...how did we do today cards, did you speak to the charge nurse, did you write to the Trust, what have you done to correct the wrongs you have witnessed?

I went and got a nurse from the nurse station, and told her what was happening with on of their patients.

No I didn’t write to anyone because all you get is we are looking into improvements but we are under staffed and under budget cuts.

You are more at risk of an infection due to poor hygiene than being harmed by a trans person.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

I went and got a nurse from the nurse station, and told her what was happening with on of their patients.

No I didn’t write to anyone because all you get is we are looking into improvements but we are under staffed and under budget cuts.

You are more at risk of an infection due to poor hygiene than being harmed by a trans person.

One of the patients, oh right I thought there was a whole tranche of people lying in their own piss

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Cherie

One of the patients, oh right I thought there was a whole tranche of people lying in their own piss

Now you are just being petty, you yourself said you have seen someone ringing the buzzer and it taking 20 mins for someone to come.

I don’t work in a hospital but over time visiting friends and family you see things happening.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

You could go the road of saying I’m a man and I’m not staying on a ward with a gay man
Or with a woman saying I’m not staying on a ward with a lesbian.

People carry on like being trans is a choice an easy option.

Give them a break live and let live.

Wen you are old and on your all female ward and you been laying your own p1ss for hours then you realise how silly the trans argument is.

I can't speak for everyone in this thread but it's not the average trans person that people are talking about, it's this new Self IDing, pre OP (or no intention of an OP) situation that most have the problem with. Where you can just decide "yeah I'm a woman now". Trans people have been around for a longtime and there was no issue, it's only become an issue because of self IDing.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I can't speak for everyone in this thread but it's not the average trans person that people are talking about, it's this new Self IDing, pre OP (or no intention of an OP) situation that most have the problem with. Where you can just decide "yeah I'm a woman now". Trans people have been around for a longtime and there was no issue, it's only become an issue because of self IDing.

That is overlooked, not sure if it is on purpose or they clearly can't see the difference