[rubymoo]

The Times is saying that radicalized young British jihadists are wanting to come home, they are disillusioned with the fighting in Syria and are begging to be allowed back home.

They have said that they fear lengthy prison sentences, and are willing to go under surveillance and go on a programme to be deradicalized.

Thoughts?

[andybigbro]

No. It's probably one of their plans.

Keep them away for the safety of an entire nation.

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by andybigbro

No. It's probably one of their plans.

Keep them away for the safety of an entire nation.

I completely agree!

They made their decision as adults, they must now accept the consequences, i do not want them in this country

[MTVN]

I did read an article recently which brought up something I hadn't really thought of, about how IS glamourise their cause and their lifestyle to persuade those easily led into fighting for them, I can imagine that some who end up fighting find the reality completely different to how they'd thought it would be and if you come from a country like the UK it must be pretty messed up to be thrown into a war zone where beheadings, mass executions etc. are the daily norm. Some probably do end up disillusioned and traumatised.

That said they made their choice and should have to live with it, I don't think they can ever be forgiven and should never be allowed back.

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I did read an article recently which brought up something I hadn't really thought of, about how IS glamourise their cause and their lifestyle to persuade those easily led into fighting for them, I can imagine that some who end up fighting find the reality completely different to how they'd thought it would be and if you come from a country like the UK it must be pretty messed up to be thrown into a war zone where beheadings, mass executions etc. are the daily norm. Some probably do end up disillusioned and traumatised.

That said they made their choice and should have to live with it, I don't think they can ever be forgiven and should never be allowed back.

It said a long the lines of they fear they won't achieve martyrdom and go on to live in paradise, because they've ended up fighting rebels, and this isn't their cause.

I hope Cameron doesn't allow them back in on the sense that they need to be tried in court, i read there's about 30 of them wanting to come back.

[kirklancaster]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

It said a long the lines of they fear they won't achieve martyrdom and go on to live in paradise, because they've ended up fighting rebels, and this isn't their cause.

I hope Cameron doesn't allow them back in on the sense that they need to be tried in court, i read there's about 30 of them wanting to come back.

I do not believe that the British public realise how anti-British, anti-American, and anti- Western some of the 'ordinary' British born, young Muslim males are, even some of the non-practising ones.

A few years ago, I had befriended a group of young British Asians via mutual business, and all appeared normal citizens. Then, at the time of the 911 atrocities, we were having after seminar drinks in a hotel - there were about 25 present - and the news broke on TV. Virtually all the room erupted into loud cheering when the jets flying into the twin towers was being screened. Some were shouting out that The Houses of Parliament should be next! Only myself and an Indian man (Sikh) who was about 40 years old were shocked by the footage and disgusted by the others reaction. I told my closest 'friend' - who was one of the loudest voices cheering and jeering - that I was dumbfounded by his (and the other's) reactions, and asked him how he could be that insensitive and so anti-British when he was born and bred here? He replied that he "wasn't British" and that "we" (the British) and them (the Americans) had it coming for what atrocities we had carried out on Muslims.

I did not recognise the hate-filled man in front of me and I ended up arguing with him and several of the others before the Sikh guy and I left. I am no longer in business or contact with any of these men.

Before anyone takes me to task and tells me that not all British-born young Muslims are like that - I know. I also know that not all non British-born older Muslims are like that, because I have met the guy I am referring to's father who is some kind of Mullah in the local Pakistani community, and I have never met a more genteel, sensitive, and peace-loving man who condemns the violence on both sides and is fiercely proud to be British.

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by kirklancaster

I do not believe that the British public realise how anti-British, anti-American, and anti- Western some of the 'ordinary' British born, young Muslim males are, even some of the non-practising ones.

A few years ago, I had befriended a group of young British Asians via mutual business, and all appeared normal citizens. Then, at the time of the 911 atrocities, we were having after seminar drinks in a hotel - there were about 25 present - and the news broke on TV. Virtually all the room erupted into loud cheering when the jets flying into the twin towers was being screened. Some were shouting out that The Houses of Parliament should be next! Only myself and an Indian man (Sikh) who was about 40 years old were shocked by the footage and disgusted by the others reaction. I told my closest 'friend' - who was one of the loudest voices cheering and jeering - that I was dumbfounded by his (and the other's) reactions, and asked him how he could be that insensitive and so anti-British when he was born and bred here? He replied that he "wasn't British" and that "we" (the British) and them (the Americans) had it coming for what atrocities we had carried out on Muslims.

I did not recognise the hate-filled man in front of me and I ended up arguing with him and several of the others before the Sikh guy and I left. I am no longer in business or contact with any of these men.

Before anyone takes me to task and tells me that not all British-born young Muslims are like that - I know. I also know that not all non British-born older Muslims are like that, because I have met the guy I am referring to's father who is some kind of Mullah in the local Pakistani community, and I have never met a more genteel, sensitive, and peace-loving man who condemns the violence on both sides and is fiercely proud to be British.

This is a really good post and actually shocked me as to the reactions of these business collegues, to know that we live in a place where British born Muslims (not all of them) hold these views.

I don't understand why they hate us and the Americans so much and why they are actually fighting, what exactly are they fighting for, i mean if you strip it right back and take away the tit for tat what exactly is it all about?

I believe we should now be a country of values, morals and beliefs and as we are asked to respect other countries and their beliefs, we should also get that same respect back, if people wish to settle in this country then they should pledge allegiance and accept our lifestyle and be glad they have settled in a place that is a step up from their country, if they hate us.....they should then go home and leave us alone!

Surely what these radicalists have commited is treason.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I did read an article recently which brought up something I hadn't really thought of, about how IS glamourise their cause and their lifestyle to persuade those easily led into fighting for them, I can imagine that some who end up fighting find the reality completely different to how they'd thought it would be and if you come from a country like the UK it must be pretty messed up to be thrown into a war zone where beheadings, mass executions etc. are the daily norm. Some probably do end up disillusioned and traumatised.

That said they made their choice and should have to live with it, I don't think they can ever be forgiven and should never be allowed back.

Excellent post, I agree,nothing to add to it.
It says it all for me too.

[Nedusa]

Send them to Guantanamo Bay, after all they are enemy combatants.





.

[rubymoo]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Send them to Guantanamo Bay, after all they are enemy combatants.





.

I agree with this! They can then question them there!

[lily.]

Originally Posted by Nedusa

Send them to Guantanamo Bay, after all they are enemy combatants.





.

This. 100%

[Kizzy]

This really is a hard one they are British citizens too, having them to examine might be beneficial to better understand how they are radicalised.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

This really is a hard one they are British citizens too, having them to examine might be beneficial to better understand how they are radicalised.

whats there problem are they missing pizza and hollyoaks?

[Scarlett.]

Originally Posted by rubymoo

The Times is saying that radicalized young British jihadists are wanting to come home, they are disillusioned with the fighting in Syria and are begging to be allowed back home.

They have said that they fear lengthy prison sentences, and are willing to go under surveillance and go on a programme to be deradicalized.

Thoughts?

Who'd have thought throwing the towel in with terrorists would destroy any chance of going back to your old life. They made their choice.

[T*]

No, they made a decision and they should stick with it, not come crawling back over here.

[Northern Monkey]

Let them rot in Guantanamo and get waterboarded and sleep depravation for the rest of their lives.They chose terrorism,Let them suffer the consequences.Not only that but it would be dangerous to let them in here.

[lostalex]

The UK government should release their names and pictures so that we can see their ISIS brothers behead them for being traitors. They are now traitors twice over. They deserve it. Let ISIS deal with these double crossing terrorists. at least they are good for something, killing traitors.

[JoshBB]

Erm, no. You can't ask to be 'unradicalised'. You're obviously a terrible person if you believe that what they're doing is right and you honestly would not be making such request.

[Kizzy]

Youtube video

[Kizzy]

After trawling through the Yale archives, the team gained access to the feedback that 659 of the 800 volunteers provided at the end of the experiment, when the set-up had been revealed.

Far from being distressed by the experience, the researchers found that most volunteers said they were very happy to have participated.

Professor Haslam said: “It appears from this feedback that the main reason participants weren’t distressed is that they did not think they had done anything wrong. This was largely due to Milgram’s ability to convince them that they had made an important contribution to science.”

“This provides new insight into the psychology of oppression and gels with other evidence that perpetrators are generally motivated, not by a desire to do evil, but by a sense that what they are doing is worthy and noble.”

This seems to be what I feel radicalisation is, a message driven that these young people are doing something that is 'for the greater good' and not driven by evil even though that is how we see it.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...s-9712600.html

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

After trawling through the Yale archives, the team gained access to the feedback that 659 of the 800 volunteers provided at the end of the experiment, when the set-up had been revealed.

Far from being distressed by the experience, the researchers found that most volunteers said they were very happy to have participated.

Professor Haslam said: “It appears from this feedback that the main reason participants weren’t distressed is that they did not think they had done anything wrong. This was largely due to Milgram’s ability to convince them that they had made an important contribution to science.”

“This provides new insight into the psychology of oppression and gels with other evidence that perpetrators are generally motivated, not by a desire to do evil, but by a sense that what they are doing is worthy and noble.”

This seems to be what I feel radicalisation is, a message driven that these young people are doing something that is 'for the greater good' and not driven by evil even though that is how we see it.


http://www.independent.co.uk/news/sc...s-9712600.html

driving hateful messages into people is evil in and of itself though, so i don't understand your conclusion. how is it not hateful? just because the people involved don't think it was hateful? Do you think Hitler thought what he was doing was hateful? no, he thought he was making the world a better place too. so how can you say it;s not hateful just because most people involved didn't think it was hateful?

[lostalex]

Charles Manson never actually killed anyone, but he's still evil. the vast majority of people are stupid (just look at this forum) which is why it's so evil to manipulate stupid people into doing evil things.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by lostalex

Charles Manson never actually killed anyone, but he's still evil. the vast majority of people are stupid (just look at this forum) which is why it's so evil to manipulate stupid people into doing evil things.

That's it... It's the evil people manipulating the suggestible into these evil acts.
If there really is 72 virgins waiting for these suicide bombers why aren't the teachers of this extremism grabbing them for themselves?..

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That's it... It's the evil people manipulating the suggestible into these evil acts.
If there really is 72 virgins waiting for these suicide bombers why aren't the teachers of this extremism grabbing them for themselves?..

why do they think it's okay for young men to think it's okay or a reward to get to rape 72 virgins to begin with? the fact that getting to rape 72 young girls is a REWARD is upsetting as it is, even without the terrorism that goes along with it. as if young virgin girls are just things that they get to **** and use as sexual playthings. no mention at all of who these 72 virgins are as people. because women aren't people in Islam. they are just possessions for men.

[jaxie]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

That's it... It's the evil people manipulating the suggestible into these evil acts.
If there really is 72 virgins waiting for these suicide bombers why aren't the teachers of this extremism grabbing them for themselves?..

Not quite sure what is so great about these virgins anyway. Are they perpetual virgins or do they lose it same as everyone else. Are they ugly virgins, or pretty virgins or a mix? Do they have some special virginal talent? I was a virgin when I met my husband. I'm not sure he thought it was paradise the first time but we got better at sex over time as we learned about each other.

Every time I see this mentioned as something wonderful these men aspire to it seems more and more ridiculous. Does anyone really believe that?