[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Zizu

There’s the problem .. excluding all wheat based products and potatoes ??

I love chip butties !!


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Have your chip butty... it's the sugar.

I have been pre diabetic before cut sugar and reversed it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dia...diabetes%3famp

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Have your chip butty... it's the sugar.

I have been pre diabetic before cut sugar and reversed it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dia...diabetes%3famp

Sugar , salt and alcohol definitely play a big part in it , so cutting down on those will help .

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Sugar , salt and alcohol definitely play a big part in it , so cutting down on those will help .

Not sure about salt but deffo alcohol again there is a lot of sugar in that.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Have your chip butty... it's the sugar.

I have been pre diabetic before cut sugar and reversed it.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dia...diabetes%3famp

Not Kizzy advising pre-diabetic people to eat chip butties. Does the reign of terror know no end?

In all seriousness; the best option would be to cut out as much of both as possible, obviously you can't cut out bulky carbs and sit stuffing your face with chocolate and haribo, but you also can't expect to cut just sugar and continue eating as much bread and pasta as you like. The problem is how the body processes carbohydrates and sugar is just a high-energy carbohydrate. To get right into it, the reason I think you need to be "stricter" on basic carbs than on sugar is because it's easy to remember that sugar should just be a treat; so sugar in your morning coffee is fine, but not sugar in 4+ coffees throughout the day. A sugary snack with a movie is fine, but not every day of the week.

Bulk carbs on the other hand are a normalised part of our diet and people will happily have porridge for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch and pasta for dinner and think nothing of it or even that they've made healthy choices. But as soon as you have that carby breakfast your body is going to chase carbs all day - and that means blood sugar fluctuations which is exactly what you don't want.

But I also don't think "strict" faddy diets work because they aren't sustainable... so I wouldn't advocate for trying to "completely cut carbs" or nonsense like that. I think a good example would be... bacon and eggs (no carbs) is a better breakfast than a bacon sandwich (carbs) - BUT don't worry too much about throwing in the occasional sausage that has wheat in it.

Or... let's say you're getting an Indian as a treat... probably skip the garlic nan - but don't worry too much about the batter on the pakora. etc.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Not Kizzy advising pre-diabetic people to eat chip butties. Does the reign of terror know no end?

In all seriousness; the best option would be to cut out as much of both as possible, obviously you can't cut out bulky carbs and sit stuffing your face with chocolate and haribo, but you also can't expect to cut just sugar and continue eating as much bread and pasta as you like. The problem is how the body processes carbohydrates and sugar is just a high-energy carbohydrate. To get right into it, the reason I think you need to be "stricter" on basic carbs than on sugar is because it's easy to remember that sugar should just be a treat; so sugar in your morning coffee is fine, but not sugar in 4+ coffees throughout the day. A sugary snack with a movie is fine, but not every day of the week.

Bulk carbs on the other hand are a normalised part of our diet and people will happily have porridge for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch and pasta for dinner and think nothing of it or even that they've made healthy choices. But as soon as you have that carby breakfast your body is going to chase carbs all day - and that means blood sugar fluctuations which is exactly what you don't want.

But I also don't think "strict" faddy diets work because they aren't sustainable... so I wouldn't advocate for trying to "completely cut carbs" or nonsense like that. I think a good example would be... bacon and eggs (no carbs) is a better breakfast than a bacon sandwich (carbs) - BUT don't worry too much about throwing in the occasional sausage that has wheat in it.

Or... let's say you're getting an Indian as a treat... probably skip the garlic nan - but don't worry too much about the batter on the pakora. etc.

Did you see the link?... and my personal experience.

If all you are going to do is mock then take your own advice and don't quote me.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Did you see the link?... and my personal experience.

If all you are going to do is mock then take your own advice and don't quote me.

I did read the link but you'll note it says;

"Instead of chocolate bars, sweets, cakes and biscuits, choose healthier snacks such as unsweetened yogurts, unsalted nuts, seeds, fruits and vegetables. For example, try natural yogurt mixed in with chopped fruit or a small handful of nuts."

...so your own link quite clearly suggests replacing sugar and empty white carbs with fats, proteins and healthy fruit & veg carbs which is what I said above .

I can't find the bit where it says "replace sugary snacks with chip butties" but to be fair I did only skim the article.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I did read the link but you'll note it says;

"Instead of chocolate bars, sweets, cakes and biscuits, choose healthier snacks such as unsweetened yogurts, unsalted nuts, seeds, fruits and vegetables. For example, try natural yogurt mixed in with chopped fruit or a small handful of nuts."

...so your own link quite clearly suggests replacing sugar and empty white carbs with fats, proteins and healthy fruit & veg carbs which is what I said above .

I can't find the bit where it says "replace sugary snacks with chip butties" but to be fair I did only skim the article.

Yes snacks.. a chip butty isn't a snack, it's a lunch. Who said the bread had to be white?

No strangely the article didn't mention chip butties because it not weirdly obsessive about every carb, just cutting out the very obvious sugars in your diet would be enough to reverse pre diabetes.

'Tis not the sweeties' that's what you said, the article clearly states it very much is sweeties. My point is if you cut out the 2 sugars in your coffees and other sugary snacks the odd sarnie is irrelevant.
Nobody suggested living on chip butties :/

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes snacks.. a chip butty isn't a snack, it's a lunch. Who said the bread had to be white?



No strangely the article didn't mention chip butties because it not weirdly obsessive about every carb, just cutting out the very obvious sugars in your diet would be enough to reverse pre diabetes.



'Tis not the sweeties' that's what you said, the article clearly states it very much is sweeties. My point is if you cut out the 2 sugars in your coffees and other sugary snacks the odd sarnie is irrelevant.

Nobody suggested living on chip butties :/

Oddly enough I’ve dropped from 6 coffees (one sugar each ) down to just ONE coffee ( or tea ) per day !!


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[user104658]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Oddly enough I’ve dropped from 6 coffees (one sugar each ) down to just ONE coffee ( or tea ) per day !!


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I dropped from about 8 coffees a day ( ) when I worked 12 hour retail management shifts to just two, a morning double espresso and an evening latte, now that I work office hours (currently from home). I have to say, I do feel quite a bit less jittery for it.

tbf like I said though, you don't have to have sugar in every cup, I used to have two sugars in my first morning coffee and then none in the rest. Have to have milk though. A co-worker tried to get me into "just coffee" but I can't do it. Not manly enough.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Yes snacks.. a chip butty isn't a snack, it's a lunch. Who said the bread had to be white?

No strangely the article didn't mention chip butties because it not weirdly obsessive about every carb, just cutting out the very obvious sugars in your diet would be enough to reverse pre diabetes.

'Tis not the sweeties' that's what you said, the article clearly states it very much is sweeties. My point is if you cut out the 2 sugars in your coffees and other sugary snacks the odd sarnie is irrelevant.
Nobody suggested living on chip butties :/

For most people, it's not the sweeties because people don't eat a plate of sweets for their dinner. They do sit and eat a plate of empty savoury carbs for their dinner.

I'm not sure what's complicated about this.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

For most people, it's not the sweeties because people don't eat a plate of sweets for their dinner. They do sit and eat a plate of empty savoury carbs for their dinner.

I'm not sure what's complicated about this.

My God you are going to labour this point like you do every time someone dares to counter your view... based on nothing but your musings as per.
What is NOT complicated about this is the amount of sugar in grams per 100g, therefore you could have a sandwich for dinner and there would at most be the equivalent of perhaps 1 biscuit.
Not a plate of biscuits... yes starchy carbs have sugar in and, if you were a diabetic along with sugar intake you may have to monitor that more closely. However, if only in the pre diabetic state reducing actual sugar would be enough to avoid spikes and maintain normal blood sugar levels.

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

Not Kizzy advising pre-diabetic people to eat chip butties. Does the reign of terror know no end?

In all seriousness; the best option would be to cut out as much of both as possible, obviously you can't cut out bulky carbs and sit stuffing your face with chocolate and haribo, but you also can't expect to cut just sugar and continue eating as much bread and pasta as you like. The problem is how the body processes carbohydrates and sugar is just a high-energy carbohydrate. To get right into it, the reason I think you need to be "stricter" on basic carbs than on sugar is because it's easy to remember that sugar should just be a treat; so sugar in your morning coffee is fine, but not sugar in 4+ coffees throughout the day. A sugary snack with a movie is fine, but not every day of the week.

Bulk carbs on the other hand are a normalised part of our diet and people will happily have porridge for breakfast, a sandwich for lunch and pasta for dinner and think nothing of it or even that they've made healthy choices. But as soon as you have that carby breakfast your body is going to chase carbs all day - and that means blood sugar fluctuations which is exactly what you don't want.

But I also don't think "strict" faddy diets work because they aren't sustainable... so I wouldn't advocate for trying to "completely cut carbs" or nonsense like that. I think a good example would be... bacon and eggs (no carbs) is a better breakfast than a bacon sandwich (carbs) - BUT don't worry too much about throwing in the occasional sausage that has wheat in it.

Or... let's say you're getting an Indian as a treat... probably skip the garlic nan - but don't worry too much about the batter on the pakora. etc.

sorry cant have bacon its full of salt and carciogenics

my motto is you can literally eat anything if you do it in moderation, and take a reasonable about of exercise

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

my motto is you can literally eat anything if you do it in moderation, and take a reasonable about of exercise

True but I think that's where I find the caveat;

1) A lot of people struggle to eat bulky carbs in moderation and make portion sizes far too big... again that's why I think it's the "thing to watch" over sugar, fat, salt etc. simply because most people hit a natural limit on sugary/fatty/salty stuff but carbs are very easy to eat 2x, 5x, 10x too much of and still be peckish for more .

2) ... if you're diabetic the "you can eat anything in moderation" rule that applies for most people goes out the window, it just doesn't really apply and you'll probably end up in a bloodsugar-related coma or dead.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by Cherie

sorry cant have bacon its full of salt and carciogenics



my motto is you can literally eat anything if you do it in moderation, and take a reasonable about of exercise

That’s the old fashioned theory ...
my mum was 86... her dad was 88 ...


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[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Zizu

That’s the old fashioned theory ...
my mum was 86... her dad was 88 ...


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It might be old fashioned but historically type 2 diabetes was not prevalent in the population and they ate carbs! ...over eating plays it’s part, the UK is one of the fattest nations in Europe and has the prevalence of diabetes to match it, Covid deaths and the correlation with the number of people with diabetes cannot be ignored

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

It might be old fashioned but historically type 2 diabetes was not prevalent in the population and they ate carbs! ...over eating plays it’s part, the UK is one of the fattest nations in Europe and has the prevalence of diabetes to match it, Covid deaths and the correlation with the number of people with diabetes cannot be ignored

It's down to cost and availability really; historically most people didn't over-eat anything because it wasn't there to over-eat. Things like high sugar content and (especially) HFCS in the US are massive problems when it comes to obesity, but carb-bulking is also a huge part of the problem no matter how much certain Kizzies want to insist that you can eat as many sandwiches as you want so long as you lay off the Haribo. It's widely accepted that huge servings of carb-based snacks are a major component of the obesity crisis, over and above just high sugar/high fat, because basically overloading on those empty carbs is what results in repeated hunger, much moreso than low-volume high-energy foods. Willpower is obviously part of the equation but instinct is a MASSIVE counter to willpower, and it's much harder for people to resist over-eating and snacking if their body is screaming at them that they need more carbs.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It's down to cost and availability really; historically most people didn't over-eat anything because it wasn't there to over-eat. Things like high sugar content and (especially) HFCS in the US are massive problems when it comes to obesity, but carb-bulking is also a huge part of the problem no matter how much certain Kizzies want to insist that you can eat as many sandwiches as you want so long as you lay off the Haribo. It's widely accepted that huge servings of carb-based snacks are a major component of the obesity crisis, over and above just high sugar/high fat, because basically overloading on those empty carbs is what results in repeated hunger, much moreso than low-volume high-energy foods. Willpower is obviously part of the equation but instinct is a MASSIVE counter to willpower, and it's much harder for people to resist over-eating and snacking if their body is screaming at them that they need more carbs.

Dear me...where is your evidence for your claims or have we to change your name to toy professor?...

I always back up my points with relevant material, where's yours??

And yes... if you lay off the haribo you can have a sandwich, nobody said anything about a full loaf! :/