[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Personally I also think its selfish to expect people to put up with deep depression...so much so that they would be willing to end their own life, possibly very painfully, no views of anything getting better or anything like that.

But thats just me.

yeah, and this what I meant by I understood why my friend did what she did. It didn't make it any less painful for me or even more so her family but I atleast hope that she now has found the peace she couldn't in life.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by happyland

I have to say that although I realise this isn't a black/white argument and there must be a LARGE grey area, I have to admit I'm more with Angus and Alex on this one.

The person who commits suicide is away from all their pain and troubles, whereas their family and friends will have to start facing a lifetime of them.

who is Angus?

[Lee.]

There are other ways to get on top of depression.. I actually find it quite selfish of somebody to wallow in it rather than get help. There is a lot of help available for mental illness and people need to be made aware that there are so many options to try before suicide!

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by happyland

I could maybe accept it, but not respect the fact

no, you should respect it. Thats if you respect them and the fact that its THEIR LIFE. Not your life, their life. If theyve had enough then they have every right to end it all.

be happy theyre at peace finally.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

who is Angus?

Angu58, who commented back there ^^ a bit

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by happyland

There are other ways to get on top of depression.. I actually find it quite selfish of somebody to wallow in it rather than get help. There is a lot of help available for mental illness and people need to be made aware that there are so many options to try before suicide!

my friend did get help though, it just didn't help her enough :/ I do often think though would she have grown out of it as she was still only a teenager when she did it.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

my friend did get help though, it just didn't help her enough :/ I do often think though would she have grown out of it as she was still only a teenager when she did it.

I dont think this so called 'professional help' is enough for some people either.

I had to see a counceller once, and they actually made me worse. That was back in my really dark days.

I do think, as horrible as it sounds, that there is a kinda 'point of no return' with depression :/

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

no, you should respect it. Thats if you respect them and the fact that its THEIR LIFE. Not your life, their life. If theyve had enough then they have every right to end it all.

be happy theyre at peace finally.

I respect your opinion, so respect mine please..

Even thinking about what it would do to my family,my children, my mum if I were to do away with myself hurts.. I know it is something they would never ever get over for the rest of their lives and the thought of my kids growing up motherless is just heartbreaking..

I don't think any of my family would feel happiness at my peace if I were to commit suicide. I think they would feel the natural emotions you feel towards a suicide; anger/confusion/guilt and then a lifetime of grief.

I personally wouldn't think that would be fair to do that to them.

Don't get me wrong, I do understand about depression,but there are ways of coping with depression which a lot of people can't find the motivation to do..

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I dont think this so called 'professional help' is enough for some people either.

I had to see a counceller once, and they actually made me worse. That was back in my really dark days.

I do think, as horrible as it sounds, that there is a kinda 'point of no return' with depression :/

yeah, the one line in her letter that got to me was "I'm never going to be the happy person I was in primary school" I don't know whether or not that was actually true but she definitely believed it was, that's for sure.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

my friend did get help though, it just didn't help her enough :/ I do often think though would she have grown out of it as she was still only a teenager when she did it.

Yeah it's very frustrating when somebody commits suicide.. there are so many "what ifs?"

and yeah, I suppose getting help won't help everybody, but there are a lot of people who try and cope with depression on their own and in their own ways without realising that treatment and talking may actually help.. I suppose a lot feel that nothing can help.

Ach, I don't know, it's all just sad!

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by happyland

Yeah it's very frustrating when somebody commits suicide.. there are so many "what ifs?"

and yeah, I suppose getting help won't help everybody, but there are a lot of people who try and cope with depression on their own and in their own ways without realising that treatment and talking may actually help.. I suppose a lot feel that nothing can help.

Ach, I don't know, it's all just sad!

she was in a group though, she went every week and had numbers she was supposed to call if she was feeling particularly bad

[Zippy]

Nobody knows what demons others have to live with in their heads.

I just don't see the need for blame or judgement. You will never know their pain.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Nobody knows what demons others have to live with in their heads.

I just don't see the need for blame or judgement. You will never know their pain.

exactly.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Nobody knows what demons others have to live with in their heads.

I just don't see the need for blame or judgement. You will never know their pain.

Exactly, I hate these "pull up your socks" type people.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Nobody knows what demons others have to live with in their heads.

I just don't see the need for blame or judgement. You will never know their pain.

I'm not blaming or judging..I just know that if any of my closest killed themselves I would be left with a lifetime of pain to cope with.. I would then know pain!

It's a difficult subject, but I know one thing for sure, I could never destroy my family in that way.. I'm not condemning those that do, as we are all different and the mind is a beautiful but very complicated, complex thing which most of us can't even begin to understand..

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by InOne

Exactly, I hate these "pull up your socks" type people.

I don't think anyone has mentioned pulling up ones socks on this thread. I know depression isn't something people can shake off and just get on with things in a normal manner..

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by happyland

I'm not blaming or judging..I just know that if any of my closest killed themselves I would be left with a lifetime of pain to cope with.. I would then know pain!

It's a difficult subject, but I know one thing for sure, I could never destroy my family in that way.. I'm not condemning those that do, as we are all different and the mind is a beautiful but very complicated, complex thing which most of us can't even begin to understand..

I also think the fact that you have 2 young children makes a difference, you couldn't imagine leaving them motherless, I understand that, I would be the same but my friend had no children.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I also think the fact that you have 2 young children makes a difference, you couldn't imagine leaving them motherless, I understand that, I would be the same but my friend had no children.

Yeah.. that has a lot to do with my feelings probably.I can't stand to think of it actually.
But I'm very close to my mum too and can't bear the thought of her grieving over me and wondering why I would choose not to be in her life any more..
My friend died of cancer when we were 21 and I remember praying that I would outlive my mum so she would never have to face the devastation of losing a child and becoming the broken woman my friends mum turned into

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by happyland

Yeah.. that has a lot to do with my feelings probably.I can't stand to think of it actually.
But I'm very close to my mum too and can't bear the thought of her grieving over me and wondering why I would choose not to be in her life any more..
My friend died of cancer when we were 21 and I remember praying that I would outlive my mum so she would never have to face the devastation of losing a child and becoming the broken woman my friends mum turned into

well, the whole issue, like you said is very grey, everyone is in a different situation, with a different mind and different problems. I just think it's wrong to label every person that does this as selfish.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

well, the whole issue, like you said is very grey, everyone is in a different situation, with a different mind and different problems. I just think it's wrong to label every person that does this as selfish.

Yeah.. I do agree with you. Every situation is individual and very personal I suppose. It wouldn't be a great world is we were all the same would it?

I suppose depression is kind of like drug/alcohol dependence; There is help available,not everybody seeks help, some do, some see the light at the end of the tunnel, some get there, some don't.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Judgemental toss.

Because it's not enough that theyve reached the point of absolute despair and hopelessness...they now also have people like you wagging the finger of blame at them?

Oh great. That really helps.

What a load of arrogant bollocks! I'm not wagging my finger at anyone - BUT I am entitled to my opinion that suicide is the ultimate act of SELFishness, do you not get that? It's that single moment when the person is thinking ONLY of THEMSELVES for whatever reason, with no thought of how their actions will destroy their loved ones' lives forever.

The current culture of saying "there, there" to everyone who has a hard time, instead of educating them with the tools and strategies they need to face life's challenges and overcome them, is the very reason that suicide is on the rise. Society generally has become more selfish and "me" orientated. Responsibility for oneself has been undermined by the State and it's always someone else's fault when things go wrong.

Whatever life you have, that is the hand you've been dealt, so you have to deal with it the best you can - and let's face it there IS plenty of help available these days if you can't make it alone. Depression is well recognised nowadays and it is no longer a stigma to have mental health issues, so there's really no need to suffer in silence.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by angus58

What a load of arrogant bollocks! I'm not wagging my finger at anyone - BUT I am entitled to my opinion that suicide is the ultimate act of SELFishness, do you not get that? It's that single moment when the person is thinking ONLY of THEMSELVES for whatever reason, with no thought of how their actions will destroy their loved ones' lives forever.

The current culture of saying "there, there" to everyone who has a hard time, instead of educating them with the tools and strategies they need to face life's challenges and overcome them, is the very reason that suicide is on the rise. Society generally has become more selfish and "me" orientated. Responsibility for oneself has been undermined by the State and it's always someone else's fault when things go wrong.

Whatever life you have, that is the hand you've been dealt, so you have to deal with it the best you can - and let's face it there IS plenty of help available these days if you can't make it alone. Depression is well recognised nowadays and it is no longer a stigma to have mental health issues, so there's really no need to suffer in silence.

Oh really? I'm pretty sure it is. God knows where you got that from.

[Patrick]

Just been reading back on the few pages, the people that say Suicide is a selfish act are really quite pathetic.

It's selfish to ask people to live through depression and heartache just so they can please others, and chances are really if you're going to commit suicide, it's because these people that are meant to 'love' you so much, couldn't give a ****** about you or don't show it.

[Angus]

Originally Posted by InOne

Oh really? I'm pretty sure it is. God knows where you got that from.

Oh really, well maybe that's just you who considers it a stigma, or other narrow minded, intellectually inept people who don't realise that mental illness is a fact of life for many people, and getting the right treatment is as crucial as getting the right treatment for a physical illness. So God knows why you would think it is still a stigma in this day and age Such an ignorant view doesn't cut it these days.

Why would anyone want to remain in a state of deep depression when there are treatments that can help you cope with your feelings of hopelessness and misery. I have no problem admitting that I have been clinically depressed and even had suicidal thoughts at my lowest ebb, and I have recognised that I needed intervention and got help to cope. I have mastered strategies to cope now, and uppermost is always the knowledge that depression is an inward illness that damages the very essence of self. You know what they say, what doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger.

[InOne]

Originally Posted by angus58

Oh really, well maybe that's just you who considers it a stigma, or other narrow minded, intellectually inept people who don't realise that mental illness is a fact of life for many people, and getting the right treatment is as crucial as getting the right treatment for a physical illness. So God knows why you would think it is still a stigma in this day and age Such an ignorant view doesn't cut it these days.

Why would anyone want to remain in a state of deep depression when there are treatments that can help you cope with your feelings of hopelessness and misery. I have no problem admitting that I have been clinically depressed and even had suicidal thoughts at my lowest ebb, and I have recognised that I needed intervention and got help to cope. I have mastered strategies to cope now, and uppermost is always the knowledge that depression is an inward illness that damages the very essence of self. You know what they say, what doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger.

To be fair, you're pretty narrow minded to say stigma doesn't exist. And you make getting help sound as easy as going for a check up. You really have some pretty warped and stiff views.
Have you taken into account that some families don't want to know if they find out you're mentally ill? It's not all lovey dovey and support. Families deal with it in all sorts of different ways and sometimes it's to push the 'bad seed' so to say, away. Which pushes people closer to the point of no return. I've seen your type before, the over bearing know it all type who thinks everything can be solved by just doing. You also presume loads, hope nobody has ever taken your 'advice'.