[RodHull]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

I don't think it's a good idea to try and blame black people (even partially) for racism against them here. That may not be what you are trying to suggest, but you are definitely inferring it.

Not for racism of course not that stems back 100s of years... no im referring to the use of the word ghetto and reinforcing the tough 'gangsta' image that went along with.

Josh above noted how most black people in films etc are depicted as drug dealers and such like, well black people themselves are complicit in that. They have to take some responsibility for when stupid badly educated girls like megan then throw the term out as an insult imo

Go to the deep south talk with people who saw their loved ones murdered by the KKK and see if they think black people describing themselves as ghetto or using the N word as a term of endearment is ok. Most won't

[JoshBB]

Originally Posted by RodHull

Not for racism of course not that stems back 100s of years... no im referring to the use of the word ghetto and reinforcing the tough 'gangsta' image that went along with.

Josh above noted how most black people in films etc are depicted as drug dealers and such like, well black people themselves are complicit in that. They have to take some responsibility for when stupid badly educated girls like megan then throw the term out as an insult imo

Go to the deep south talk with people who saw their loved ones murdered by the KKK and see if they think black people describing themselves as ghetto or using the N word as a term of endearment is ok. Most won't

Black people should be able to act 'gangsta' all they want to. If celebrities like Iggy Azalea or Eminem can do it without backlash.. so can they.

To your point on black actors playing drug dealers in films, I don't think you realise but racism is more complex than just white people calling black people names. In modern history, there are many examples of people contributing to their own oppression without realising they are even doing so, and even examples of people supporting oppression against their own social grouping. An example of this could be the PoC in the (now defunct ) BNP. It's unfortunate but I think some minorities believe if they act like one of their oppressors, it gives them some kind of security. But it's selfish and damaging to the others who are not willing to subject themselves to discrimination.

And to your last point, simply and politely put, no. South America is culturally different to the UK for a start, they were much much more aggressive towards migrants of different ethnicites and so the 'N-word' perhaps may hold more hurtful qualities than in London. When the black people in South America wish to reclaim the word, that is their choice. As a white person that is not my place to do so, especially since historically white people have always controlled the lives of black people. Reclamation of a slur is solely the choice of the group oppressed by it. But even then, compassion wouldn't go amiss. If a person is deeply offended by a certain word as a result of historical persecution, it may be wise not to use it.

To conclude, black people are in no way responsible for any stereotypes or oppression that negatively impacts their lives and wellbeing. The guilt is solely in the hands of our white ancestors, and we can show some proper respect to black people by not using words our predecessors used to degrade and oppress them. If black people wish to use the words in hopes of sucking out the venom, best of luck to them. I think we owe them that much.

[RodHull]

Originally Posted by JoshBB

Black people should be able to act 'gangsta' all they want to. If celebrities like Iggy Azalea or Eminem can do it without backlash.. so can they.

Remind me where I said it was ok for white people to do this?

Originally Posted by JoshBB

To your point on black actors playing drug dealers in films, I don't think you realise but racism is more complex than just white people calling black people names. In modern history, there are many examples of people contributing to their own oppression without realising they are even doing so, and even examples of people supporting oppression against their own social grouping. An example of this could be the PoC in the (now defunct ) BNP. It's unfortunate but I think some minorities believe if they act like one of their oppressors, it gives them some kind of security. But it's selfish and damaging to the others who are not willing to subject themselves to discrimination.

Wasn't my point was replying to someone else but ok..

And sorry I call BS yes some of your facts are spot on, but no sorry lets take the gangsta rap scene of the late 80s and early 90s, that was whole groups of black people using the stereotype that they were violent had no moral compass were drug dealers, murderers etc to sell their records and they got VERY rich doing it... that is NOT them being unaware of what they were doing, in the beginning it was social commentary about how ****ty their living environment was, it later morphed into a caricature of itself and became imo very damaging (to this day)

Now if you want to argue that it isnt only black people of course it isnt most of the media who pedaled that music and the films were run by white people. And no this is not some self empowered civil rights movement who have every right to use that term they deliberately helped create a NEGATIVE stereotype of their own culture to reinforce an image that sold records and later movies, and a whole host of other merchandise.

Originally Posted by JoshBB

To conclude, black people are in no way responsible for any stereotypes or oppression that negatively impacts their lives and wellbeing.

Thats just as damaging and ill educated as someone who believes the opposite. Of course they have a part to play, prominent black people have even given whole lectures on just this subject, every day positive black role models in communities fight tooth and nail to turn their youth away from negative stereotypes created by other black stars.

Originally Posted by JoshBB

The guilt is solely in the hands of our white ancestors, and we can show some proper respect to black people by not using words our predecessors used to degrade and oppress them. If black people wish to use the words in hopes of sucking out the venom, best of luck to them. I think we owe them that much.

Racism is an inherent human trait if you want to be really deep, it just happened that white people back in the day happened to be the ones predominantly with the military power. And to be clear it isnt used to 'take the venom out' its used as a term to describe someone as tough or scary... its used negatively by both sides

[Northern Monkey]

Originally Posted by RodHull

Remind me where I said it was ok for white people to do this?



Wasn't my point was replying to someone else but ok..

And sorry I call BS yes some of your facts are spot on, but no sorry lets take the gangsta rap scene of the late 80s and early 90s, that was whole groups of black people using the stereotype that they were violent had no moral compass were drug dealers, murderers etc to sell their records and they got VERY rich doing it... that is NOT them being unaware of what they were doing, in the beginning it was social commentary about how ****ty their living environment was, it later morphed into a caricature of itself and became imo very damaging (to this day)

Now if you want to argue that it isnt only black people of course it isnt most of the media who pedaled that music and the films were run by white people. And no this is not some self empowered civil rights movement who have every right to use that term they deliberately helped create a NEGATIVE stereotype of their own culture to reinforce an image that sold records and later movies, and a whole host of other merchandise.



Thats just as damaging and ill educated as someone who believes the opposite. Of course they have a part to play, prominent black people have even given whole lectures on just this subject, every day positive black role models in communities fight tooth and nail to turn their youth away from negative stereotypes created by other black stars.




Racism is an inherent human trait if you want to be really deep, it just happened that white people back in the day happened to be the ones predominantly with the military power. And to be clear it isnt used to 'take the venom out' its used as a term to describe someone as tough or scary... its used negatively by both sides

Now this i totally agree with
Spot on