[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Either they can be called women or they can't though, regardless of what the situation is. Otherwise a rather long list would need drafting of when they can't be referred to as women, and must be prefixed with 'trans' instead... so as to not offend 'real' women. It's not self identification rubbish, she is legally a woman (and is recognised as one by the army) and I don't see why she should be stripped of her right to be referred to as such just because it might steal someone else's thunder slightly in the future.

It is still self-identification rubbish, even if the law is going along with the rubbish right now. I don't always agree with the law, though I know I have to follow it. It wasn't too long ago the law told me being gay was illegal so...meh. The whole self identification thing seems to be widely accepted, but not many people realise that you no longer have to do anything to actually be a 'woman' or a 'man'. Somewhere along the line, sex and gender has got muddled, and people are playing along with this. Gender is not sex. Transsexual to me will always mean someone trapped in the wrong body (though this is transphobic apparently, as not all 'trans' believe they are in the wrong body?! ) who takes steps to resolve this issue. A crossdresser, or just a person who decides they are sick of being their biological sex, or is gender non-binary...is not trans. Though at the moment they come under the same umbrella...

Depending what you mean by 'they' really. A transwoman who has undergone the full transition progress is a woman to me, no less than I am. A person who simply says they are a woman as they like to wear dresses...not so much.