[MB.]

250,000 people a year dying from undiagnosed blood clots won't be solved by complaining about how much media attention the gays get, either

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by arista

Not being Rude
but she looks like a Fella

Arista have you read the story or the OP?

[arista]

Yes I am aware of the story.
I hope the next one is a Fit Women.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by MB.

250,000 people a year dying from undiagnosed blood clots won't be solved by complaining about how much media attention the gays get, either

25000 and its not a laughing matter

[Jessica.]

I don't think the army should be segregated by male or female in the first place, I think the person who is most able to handle it should be on the frontlines, I'm sure there are lots of buff women who could outshine a scrawny dude in the army.

I don't get why people are so outraged and saying that she has an advantage, obviously they're not letting women out there so it's not as if she's holding other women back. She worked as hard as all of the men around her to get where she is so she deserves to be there no matter what her gender is.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

I don't think the army should be segregated by male or female in the first place, I think the person who is most able to handle it should be on the frontlines, I'm sure there are lots of buff women who could outshine a scrawny dude in the army.

I don't get why people are so outraged and saying that she has an advantage, obviously they're not letting women out there so it's not as if she's holding other women back. She worked as hard as all of the men around her to get where she is so she deserves to be there no matter what her gender is.

Yes, it has changed to allow this BUT females have to be trained up more and pass physicals, something that is not going to happen for a year or so.

Therefor, with this 'Chloe' apparently being the first woman, when the real first woman makes it through the extensive training, its not a 'first' for actual women as its been claimed already by someone who 'was' a bloke until a few months ago.

The issue is they are allowing women out there (which should always have been allowed) but the whole thing has been turned into a bit of a joke by a guy who completed his training and such as a guy, who has physical advantages that women have to overcome to get this title..being lauded the first female. Its just wrong...

And yes, I agree she has worked as hard as the men around her. That does not make her the first female soldier though, far from it.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yes, it has changed to allow this BUT females have to be trained up more and pass physicals, something that is not going to happen for a year or so.

Therefor, with this 'Chloe' apparently being the first woman, when the real first woman makes it through the extensive training, its not a 'first' for actual women as its been claimed already by someone who 'was' a bloke until a few months ago.

The issue is they are allowing women out there (which should always have been allowed) but the whole thing has been turned into a bit of a joke by a guy who completed his training and such as a guy, who has physical advantages that women have to overcome to get this title..being lauded the first female. Its just wrong...

And yes, I agree she has worked as hard as the men around her. That does not make her the first female soldier though, far from it.

I am 100% certain that the next woman who is allowed in will get well deserved recognition as the first woman to complete the rigorous training etc.. This isn't diminishing anyone's achievements at all, it's just telling the story of one person, not even praising her, but they wanted to make it into news, so they are going to use flashy titles. I still don't see why anyone cares in the first place, she's just doing the same job she always did, the only thing that changed is her personal life.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

I am 100% certain that the next woman who is allowed in will get well deserved recognition as the first woman to complete the rigorous training etc.. This isn't diminishing anyone's achievements at all, it's just telling the story of one person, not even praising her, but they wanted to make it into news, so they are going to use flashy titles. I still don't see why anyone cares in the first place, she's just doing the same job she always did, the only thing that changed is her personal life.

It is though really when you claim that this makes history and such?

Chloe is not even the first transwoman on the front line either, so this reporting is ****ing horrific.

[Jessica.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It is though really when you claim that this makes history and such?

Chloe is not even the first transwoman on the front line either, so this reporting is ****ing horrific.

If that's the case then this isn't even a debate. It's just the media distorting things so they can get more people reading.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jessica.

If that's the case then this isn't even a debate. It's just the media distorting things so they can get more people reading.

So all of the media outlets just randomly decide to distort this at the same time...to get people reading? A bit odd, don't you think?

Britain’s first female infantry soldier to serve in the Army has told how she was born a boy and described how honoured she is “to be able to make history”.

[Jamie89]

I get what your saying, and it's true that having trained as a man, her experience of it and ability etc will have been very different for someone born as a female going through it, and I can see the argument for it being more impressive and deserving of acknowledgement for someone born as a female. However, none of that is hidden from the story so what is the alternative to the way it has been put across? You suggest that perhaps she should be lauded as a trans-woman (and not be referred to as a woman?), but if she is a woman, then there is nothing incorrect in how it's been reported. Should transgender women have to be prefixed with 'trans' every time they are mentioned? Personally I don't think they should have to be. She is technically the first woman on the front line, and nothing in the story is hiding her past or that she was a man when she went through training, so even though they refer to her as a woman, they also refer to her as a transsexual, and everything about her past has been made clear, so I don't see the story as being irresponsible in any way. It's mentioned numerous times as well as being in the headline that this story is about a transsexual. So what is being distorted, the story is correct?
If the issue is that celebrating this woman is taking away from women's rights and achievements, I don't see that either to be honest. When the first woman who was born as a female biologically makes it to the front line, it will be just as much of an achievement for her. The story that gets published about her might be slightly different had this not happened, but that's just a reflection of the fact society recognises trans-women as women, it's not taking anything away from anyone and both stories and successes will be able to coexist. This just happens to be something that has come before that, and should this story not be reported because it's potentially stealing someone else's thunder? Would that not be diminishing to the rights and achievements of transgender people?
(I'm just going off the guardian link and the OP, I'm not sure and don't care how The Sun are reporting it lol )

[Vicky.]

Britain’s first female infantry soldier to serve in the Army has told how she was born a boy and described how honoured she is “to be able to make history”.

Just gunna leave this here...Chloe is playing along with this 'first woman' bollocks. Its not just how its reported. (that quote is not from the sun article btw )

She is not even the first transwoman on the front line. Just the first to run to the press stating she is the first female...its pathetic

[Vicky.]

And no, in the senses of 'first achievement' for women in any scneario, I do not think 'trans' women should be classed as women. Or else, whats the point in having firsts? When the first 'woman' can be a man?!

I don't mean that to be sneery or anything, but the self-identification rubbish kind of does mean any guy can claim to be the first 'woman' anything.

[Firewire]

She's a woman so whether she trained as a man or not is totally irrelevant

She's a woman and fighting as a woman

Her journey as a trans woman is an incredible story but she should be referred to as a woman and applauded for that whether she is trans or not

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Firewire

She's a woman so whether she trained as a man or not is totally irrelevant

She's a woman and fighting as a woman

Her journey as a trans woman is an incredible story but she should be referred to as a woman and applauded for that whether she is trans or not

It really is relevant when she is trying to claim she is the first female frontline soldier though. Given female frontline soldiers do not exist due to training issues and the first lot will only be qualified to do so in a year or so. Really, to be a woman, Chloe should be retaking her training along with the others, to make it official.

Yes the whole trans thing is incredible and such...and good on the army for not trying to block her dressing as she wishes... but that does not mean that this person is the first woman on the frontline.

Also should maybe point out again, there have been transwomen fighting on the front line for years and years...this is nothing new. So quite why this person thinks they are any different to those before them..I don't get.

[Jamie89]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

And no, in the senses of 'first achievement' for women in any scneario, I do not think 'trans' women should be classed as women. Or else, whats the point in having firsts? When the first 'woman' can be a man?!

I don't mean that to be sneery or anything, but the self-identification rubbish kind of does mean any guy can claim to be the first 'woman' anything.

Either they can be called women or they can't though, regardless of what the situation is. Otherwise a rather long list would need drafting of when they can't be referred to as women, and must be prefixed with 'trans' instead... so as to not offend 'real' women. It's not self identification rubbish, she is legally a woman (and is recognised as one by the army) and I don't see why she should be stripped of her right to be referred to as such just because it might steal someone else's thunder slightly in the future.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by arista

Not being Rude
but she looks like a Fella

Are you kidding me, she looks like a bloke. Not being funny but is she a lesbian?

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jamie89

Either they can be called women or they can't though, regardless of what the situation is. Otherwise a rather long list would need drafting of when they can't be referred to as women, and must be prefixed with 'trans' instead... so as to not offend 'real' women. It's not self identification rubbish, she is legally a woman (and is recognised as one by the army) and I don't see why she should be stripped of her right to be referred to as such just because it might steal someone else's thunder slightly in the future.

It is still self-identification rubbish, even if the law is going along with the rubbish right now. I don't always agree with the law, though I know I have to follow it. It wasn't too long ago the law told me being gay was illegal so...meh. The whole self identification thing seems to be widely accepted, but not many people realise that you no longer have to do anything to actually be a 'woman' or a 'man'. Somewhere along the line, sex and gender has got muddled, and people are playing along with this. Gender is not sex. Transsexual to me will always mean someone trapped in the wrong body (though this is transphobic apparently, as not all 'trans' believe they are in the wrong body?! ) who takes steps to resolve this issue. A crossdresser, or just a person who decides they are sick of being their biological sex, or is gender non-binary...is not trans. Though at the moment they come under the same umbrella...

Depending what you mean by 'they' really. A transwoman who has undergone the full transition progress is a woman to me, no less than I am. A person who simply says they are a woman as they like to wear dresses...not so much.

[Crimson Dynamo]

sadly over the last years our soldiers have been agents of death for incompetent politicians and not much more

[Ammi]

...it's not really looking at her huge disadvantages though and one of the fundamental things that most people have, which is being born into the right body...I would say that she's been hugely disadvantaged in life and always will be because there are things that she won't ever be able to achieve in the same way as a 'born female'...(I feel) that it's a huge achievement for women in general in that she's been able to be who she is and in a job that she seems to love and one where it must have been many struggles to be who she is...well done Chloe....

[Vicky.]

Ammi, with respect I don't think you have understood my point Of course it is fantastic that Chloe is allowed to be who she feels she is, especially in such a male dominated area such as the army. But to claim she is making history as the first female on the front line is entirely false and quite insulting also to the other transwomen who were on the frontline before Chloe decided to take the thunder, along with insulting towards women who are actively trying to get in that position now and have been disadvantaged because of their sex alone.

[Vicky.]

I guess what I am trying to say is this story would have been better received if it was along the lines of 'I came out as trans and the army accepted me as a woman and I kept my job that I love doing' or something. Rather than the attempt to make out this is a first, or that its a step forward for the army regarding biological women who are currently still fighting hard to get into the same position that Chloe is in due to her male privilege she had before coming out.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I guess what I am trying to say is this story would have been better received if it was along the lines of 'I came out as trans and the army accepted me as a woman and I kept my job that I love doing' or something. Rather than the attempt to make out this is a first, or that its a step forward for the army regarding biological women who are currently still fighting hard to get into the same position that Chloe is in due to her male privilege she had before coming out.

I knew what you meant

[Dollface]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I guess what I am trying to say is this story would have been better received if it was along the lines of 'I came out as trans and the army accepted me as a woman and I kept my job that I love doing' or something. Rather than the attempt to make out this is a first, or that its a step forward for the army regarding biological women who are currently still fighting hard to get into the same position that Chloe is in due to her male privilege she had before coming out.

[MTVN]

When else has there been a transwoman on the front line? If it has happened before then surely it makes all the headlines about 'first woman to do it' factually incorrect (sorry if it talked about that in the articles, only skimmed this story)