[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I guess thats a fair point. I did have issues taking Kellies transition seriously...not helped by the first thing Kellie did in the house was trying to get Audley to say something transphobic I loved Audley just being so...'whatever' about it all. Another reason I had problems accepting Kellie 'as a woman' was her blaming every bad thing about her personality on Frank. She blamed trying to kill her wife on Frank and said Kellie is a different person...no. Kellie IS frank. Also Kellie from what I remember squared up to a woman...which made me think 'man', just the way it was done. Kellie brought up Frank on a regular basis. So again, Kellie was one who acted like a male person and constantly brought up her 'alter ego' I am sure she called it :S

Even with all of this said though, I admit I did not see Kellie as a woman, but not quite to the extent that I am having problems accepting India as a woman.

And yes, India is misogynistic. Which does not help in trying to see her 'as a woman'. I know some women are misogynistic, but it just shows more from a male person I think

Also, I'm finding all this dragqueenphobic stuff in really poor taste as well, Shane J seems like a really lovely person, tolerant, level headed and accepting of everyone but the way India is carrying on around him being a drag queen/making people up as drag queens is so rude and offensive, it's such hypocrisy

[Ashley.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Do you really not have swear words that tend to be for one sex? A lot of people in this thread have said that and a few in the other thread...where I am from dickhead and wanker and prick are typically used for men (though not exclusively) and the likes of bitch are used for women. Twat is for both.

This is news to me, that it seems to be my area And scotts, possibly

Not really, no... And besides, I hate the word 'bitch'.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Ashley.

Not really, no... And besides, I hate the word 'bitch'.

I hate the word too oddly enough, but I use it even when I don't want to. Possibly as I heard it so much as a teen so its kind of..deeply ingrained. I also use the C word pretty regularly when I hate that too Though it is quite satisfying to say if someone is being an utter dick

[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I guess thats a fair point. I did have issues taking Kellies transition seriously...not helped by the first thing Kellie did in the house was trying to get Audley to say something transphobic I loved Audley just being so...'whatever' about it all. Another reason I had problems accepting Kellie 'as a woman' was her blaming every bad thing about her personality on Frank. She blamed trying to kill her wife on Frank and said Kellie is a different person...no. Kellie IS frank. Also Kellie from what I remember squared up to a woman...which made me think 'man', just the way it was done. Kellie brought up Frank on a regular basis. So again, Kellie was one who acted like a male person and constantly brought up her 'alter ego' I am sure she called it :S

Even with all of this said though, I admit I did not see Kellie as a woman, but not quite to the extent that I am having problems accepting India as a woman.

And yes, India is misogynistic. Which does not help in trying to see her 'as a woman'. I know some women are misogynistic, but it just shows more from a male person I think

I guess I understand, in that it takes more than just the surgical procedure to become an entirely opposite part of the spectrum (just as how it's impossible to go from 'gay' to 'straight' - unless you're TwentyOneThrones' ex-boyfriend ) but with the reasoning explained by Shane J on why gender and sex are two different things, that's where I disagree with still calling her 'male' (indeed you still keep saying 'her' or 'she', I've noticed )

There's not really a comparable instance to relate, I guess, to people who believe they're born in the wrong body, which is why it makes explaining the idea of transitioning a bit like trying to explain death to a 5 year-old... it's there but idk what it is and it's more difficult a term to put under one label than, say, black and white people, Jewish and Christian people, or any other more obvious divisions, since everyone has different experiences with how they've been raised (did they have open-minded parents, were they ever in a relationship with someone they wouldn't now, do they have children, were they abused, have they always known, are they even sure, do they want to fully transition, do they keep the penis/vagina... x100) which is why I get annoyed when people treat India as a green card to laugh at the word '******' and whatever dumb nonsense is also all over Facebook and Twitter posts about her, because of other (hopefully more reasonable and likeable) people who are in a similar boat to her that may be reading.

I forgot about Kellie referring to Frank as if it were her Mr. Hyde persona, that was weird. But I seem to recall her getting along with Audley? He was just a bit taken aback on launch night because I don't think he knew? idk it's been a while lol.

....remember when Scott made threads and people would just reply with 'PTL'

[Ashley.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Is it really transphobic to see a transwoman as a male person though? Especially a transwoman who goes on constantly about 'when I was a man' and such? I really don't think it is.

But I agree, the prick and dickhead were likely as he does see India as a male person. But India IS a male person. And reminds everyone of this on a regular basis.

Personally I would say transphobic would be saying (for example) 'disgusting ******' or something about how India is trans and you disagree with India being trans. Not that India is a male person.

I agree. But I think it's definitely down to the fact that India won't stop talking about it... Because I never had a problem with seeing Luke A as a male.

[Ashley.]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I hate the word too oddly enough, but I use it even when I don't want to. Possibly as I heard it so much as a teen so its kind of..deeply ingrained. I also use the C word pretty regularly when I hate that too Though it is quite satisfying to say if someone is being an utter dick

Yeah, those two words are pretty much no-go's for me.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Shaun

I guess I understand, in that it takes more than just the surgical procedure to become an entirely opposite part of the spectrum (just as how it's impossible to go from 'gay' to 'straight' - unless you're TwentyOneThrones' ex-boyfriend ) but with the reasoning explained by Shane J on why gender and sex are two different things, that's where I disagree with still calling her 'male' (indeed you still keep saying 'her' or 'she', I've noticed )

There's not really a comparable instance to relate, I guess, to people who believe they're born in the wrong body, which is why it makes explaining the idea of transitioning a bit like trying to explain death to a 5 year-old... it's there but idk what it is and it's more difficult a term to put under one label than, say, black and white people, Jewish and Christian people, or any other more obvious divisions, since everyone has different experiences with how they've been raised (did they have open-minded parents, were they ever in a relationship with someone they wouldn't now, do they have children, were they abused, have they always known, are they even sure, do they want to fully transition, do they keep the penis/vagina... x100) which is why I get annoyed when people treat India as a green card to laugh at the word '******' and whatever dumb nonsense is also all over Facebook and Twitter posts about her, because of other (hopefully more reasonable and likeable) people who are in a similar boat to her that may be reading.

I forgot about Kellie referring to Frank as if it were her Mr. Hyde persona, that was weird. But I seem to recall her getting along with Audley? He was just a bit taken aback on launch night because I don't think he knew? idk it's been a while lol.

....remember when Scott made threads and people would just reply with 'PTL'

I got told off last night for using them/they. But the reason I was using gender neutral pronouns is because I do see India as male through her behaviour and such...so I know trying to use she I will slip up sometimes. But someone pointed out how using 'them/they' was dehumanizing or something like that so I realised that it may not be looking as I intended it to look so am now trying to use she...but if I use he unintentionally I know there will be someone waiting to pounce to say 'aha'. And I would never ever use the word '******' even though its apparently fine now (according to some people) same as I would never use queer, as far too many mates find it ridiculously offensive, even if a few people say its fine to use now. Yes, many of the facebook/twitter comments are way out of line and definitely transphobic. I feel there is a difference between having my opinions (basically that you can have surgeries to mimic the opposite sex but socialization is also important and sex cannot actually be changed) and being transphobic. And I also do not think that saying a straight man would not shag a transsexual woman is transphobic either, which luckily the majority seem to agree with

Yes, to me gender and sex are different things too. Another reason why I do in the back of my mind see transwomen as male. As they are male people. Its fairly easy to forget that they are male though, if they do not act like male people (and possibly look like male people too..though I know thats shallow)

[Amy Jade]

I don't think he's that malicious to be honest.

I can understand why somebody could see otherwise though I suppose

[Greg!]

Originally Posted by TomC

Stephanie McMichael was called a prick!

worreva ur a fookin prick!

[Withano]

I would say that dickhead and prick are most commonly swears aimed at men, but theyre not exclusively aimed at men. It might be transphobia (on some subconscious level) but we'll never know either way.

[montblanc]

subconsciously i do believe so

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

whether subconsciously or not, he was insulting her as if she were a man. I think because he was angry it was a subconscious thing and I'm sorry, but no-one can help that, its just a fact of life.

..yeah I think this also...the shame of it is as well I think, with the few ‘misgenders’ from the female housemates it’s all just feeding into India’s ‘victim complex’ more and more..becAuse she’s able to interpret is as...oh the women don’t accept me as a woman, because of the ‘he’ references and obviously now the name calling as if she were a man from one of the men....so for India..?...she doesn’t have to look at or address her behaviour which isn’t great, she just becomes more and more the victim as she will see it I fear and because she’s transgender and ‘unaccepted’....rather than just an irritation to those sharing a space with her because of her personality....