[Shaun]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I guess thats a fair point. I did have issues taking Kellies transition seriously...not helped by the first thing Kellie did in the house was trying to get Audley to say something transphobic I loved Audley just being so...'whatever' about it all. Another reason I had problems accepting Kellie 'as a woman' was her blaming every bad thing about her personality on Frank. She blamed trying to kill her wife on Frank and said Kellie is a different person...no. Kellie IS frank. Also Kellie from what I remember squared up to a woman...which made me think 'man', just the way it was done. Kellie brought up Frank on a regular basis. So again, Kellie was one who acted like a male person and constantly brought up her 'alter ego' I am sure she called it :S

Even with all of this said though, I admit I did not see Kellie as a woman, but not quite to the extent that I am having problems accepting India as a woman.

And yes, India is misogynistic. Which does not help in trying to see her 'as a woman'. I know some women are misogynistic, but it just shows more from a male person I think

I guess I understand, in that it takes more than just the surgical procedure to become an entirely opposite part of the spectrum (just as how it's impossible to go from 'gay' to 'straight' - unless you're TwentyOneThrones' ex-boyfriend ) but with the reasoning explained by Shane J on why gender and sex are two different things, that's where I disagree with still calling her 'male' (indeed you still keep saying 'her' or 'she', I've noticed )

There's not really a comparable instance to relate, I guess, to people who believe they're born in the wrong body, which is why it makes explaining the idea of transitioning a bit like trying to explain death to a 5 year-old... it's there but idk what it is and it's more difficult a term to put under one label than, say, black and white people, Jewish and Christian people, or any other more obvious divisions, since everyone has different experiences with how they've been raised (did they have open-minded parents, were they ever in a relationship with someone they wouldn't now, do they have children, were they abused, have they always known, are they even sure, do they want to fully transition, do they keep the penis/vagina... x100) which is why I get annoyed when people treat India as a green card to laugh at the word '******' and whatever dumb nonsense is also all over Facebook and Twitter posts about her, because of other (hopefully more reasonable and likeable) people who are in a similar boat to her that may be reading.

I forgot about Kellie referring to Frank as if it were her Mr. Hyde persona, that was weird. But I seem to recall her getting along with Audley? He was just a bit taken aback on launch night because I don't think he knew? idk it's been a while lol.

....remember when Scott made threads and people would just reply with 'PTL'