[user104658]

Originally Posted by Cherie

anyway I think girls can be just as gruesome when they get into a gang

I think it's generally far less common and far FAR less likely to progress past "just talk" ... though I have known a few, err, "characters" in my time who were to be frank just wild to a bewlindering extent.

You also can't ignore that there simply are different implications in level of threat. A housemate of mine had a girl who became utterly obsessed with him at Uni, progressed to her contacting him quite relentlessly, and at the peak, her turning up at our house at 2am banging on his window (he was ground floor) demanding to be let in. He wasn't even there . But yeah she was a tiny 20 year old girl and it was just a really quite sad situation, we called her friends to come get her. But if you flip that situation... and there's a guy harassing a girl... and he turns up banging the windows of an all-girls house at 2am... that IS a very different situation and I think trying to make the two the same creates a bit of a false equivalency. Realistically, males are not at any particular REAL physical risk from a group of drunk 18 year old girls. Females are (evidently) often at very real risk from groups of drunk young men.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Liam-

not conspire to seduce girls and humiliate them based on their lack of wealth and class privilege

I think that's the thing though, it depends if it was a real plan or a bunch of knob-heads trying to "shock humour" each other. I personally wasn't like that in my late teens / early 20's, but I knew plenty of people who were saying that sort of stuff and it wasn't in a million years with the intention of actually doing it. They just thought they were being funny. They weren't, but they thought they were. Also I'd say that, yes, by the end of University most of them HAD grown up without a lot of prompting. University is just like that to be honest. You feel so grown up starting, then you get to the end of your final year and see the new freshers coming in and it's abundantly obvious that they're just kids.

[Ammi]

...the thing is, when we talk about bathroom spaces and safety for females etc...we talk about females feeling their safety possibly threatened because males are the physically stronger...so something of that vein, written by males as it was...wouldn’t really equate exactly to a female fresher having written it...but she didn’t, though....we don’t really hear many stories of an equal thing but reversed to females have it said...it should be taken very seriously because it would have a threatening feeling to a female student...

[Kizzy]

I hate all this 18yr olds are kids stuff... if you are intelligent enough to go to uni you are intelligent enough to know that talking like this is wrong.

Nobody is suggesting that you are fully rounded at 18 and you won't make mistakes, be irrational or even sensible, but this is really base. . I would be devastated as a parent if my son thought in this way I wouldn't suggest that his age prompted those comments.
They are driven less by libedo and more by privilege, it was totally right for the university to expect better from their students.

[Niamh.]

I suppose if you wanted to look for examples of this kind of banter spilling over into real life you only have to look at that case in NI involving those Rugby players

[bots]

it's the equivalent of trumps famous "locker room banter" really, it's always going to offend some while others don't care

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I suppose if you wanted to look for examples of this kind of banter spilling over into real life you only have to look at that case in NI involving those Rugby players

...that’s exactly the case I was thinking about earlier, actually...it’s something that sadly can become a ‘mindset’ and then lead and lead...the ‘impress mates’ or follow the words and actions of a group can be something that’s continued...and it wouldn’t be something that a uni would want to be attached to...if anything had happened and they’d known.../...seen what was said and then actions followed ...

[Beso]

Rats.

[thesheriff443]

I think they are probably mature but it’s just lads being lads. But young people are exposed to so much sexual stuff these days and most of it is not censored it’s easy for people to see sex as anything goes.

[caprimint]

Removing him??? Waaaaay an overreaction. People should be allowed to say whatever they want in private. He didn't make any threats, sure there might have been some gross comments in there but they took it too far... it's literally letters on a screen

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I hate all this 18yr olds are kids stuff... if you are intelligent enough to go to uni you are intelligent enough to know that talking like this is wrong.

Nobody is suggesting that you are fully rounded at 18 and you won't make mistakes, be irrational or even sensible, but this is really base. . I would be devastated as a parent if my son thought in this way I wouldn't suggest that his age prompted those comments.
They are driven less by libedo and more by privilege, it was totally right for the university to expect better from their students.

18 year olds are kids. Again it's not about making excuses, but I think we"re treading dangerous ground if we're not willing to give people that age a chance to learn and change. If they're showing no indication of having a desire to or being able to do that, that's another matter.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it's the equivalent of trumps famous "locker room banter" really, it's always going to offend some while others don't care

Yes, great example 'locker room' banter breeds men like Trump that suggest it's OK to 'grab women by the pussy' and are accused of rape.. just like Trump.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by caprimint

Removing him??? Waaaaay an overreaction. People should be allowed to say whatever they want in private. He didn't make any threats, sure there might have been some gross comments in there but they took it too far... it's literally letters on a screen

Weeeell we don't know that there weren't any threats. Given that there were a few of them doing it and only one had his place removed, I think it's a safe-ish bet that that one did wander into the territory of actual threats/talk of force.

I also don't think having an offer of a place taken away is as severe as being removed from a course that has started. From what I can tell these guys haven't even started at the University yet so it's not like they've invested their time in a course there yet, and any tuition fees etc will be refunded if the course hasn't started.

[Ammi]

...o mean, we’re discussing it obviously because that’s what we do, a section like this would be pointless if we didn’t...but we don't know what the screenshots said that the uni based their decision on...and because he hadn’t started yet, they had nothing to balance his character on in terms of time spent there as a student...

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

18 year olds are kids. Again it's not about making excuses, but I think we"re treading dangerous ground if we're not willing to give people that age a chance to learn and change. If they're showing no indication of having a desire to or being able to do that, that's another matter.

No they are not. They are legally adults, is counterproductive to infantilise students. Personally I think we're treading a more dangerous ground it we don't highlight clearly enough that views such as those expressed in those conversations are unacceptable.

There is no grey area, if you can't see that at 18 being old enough to work, study and live independently you don't belong in a university setting.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Ammi

...o mean, we’re discussing it obviously because that’s what we do, a section like this would be pointless if we didn’t...but we don't know what the screenshots said that the uni based their decision on...and because he hadn’t started yet, they had nothing to balance his character on in terms of time spent there as a student...

I think that's the crux of it really, saying "We no longer want you to come here" is very different to being expelled, which would be a much longer disciplinary process with various checks and balances. Legally they would have to have good reason to expel. It's just the same as with employment really; if someone hasn't started a new job yet, the employer can withdraw the offer. If they're already in employment, firing them isn't a simple process.

A few people were removed from my wife's course during her time there, for reasons far worse than this and even then its a process that takes 3+ months.

[Cherie]

Dont unis do that ‘talk’ for freshers about respect or was that one off? Uni are about about making money now, it was easier to offload him than to educate him

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

No they are not. They are legally adults, is counterproductive to infantilise students. Personally I think we're treading a more dangerous ground it we don't highlight clearly enough that views such as those expressed in those conversations are unacceptable.



There is no grey area, if you can't see that at 18 being old enough to work, study and live independently you don't belong in a university setting.

Of course there's a "grey area", the idea that there's a switch that gets flipped on a certain date that turns a child into an adult is illogical and ridiculous. "Happy 18th Birthday, you're an adult now!!" is the dangerous ground.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by bitontheslide

it's the equivalent of trumps famous "locker room banter" really, it's always going to offend some while others don't care

Trump's was less locker room banter and more rape talk.

[Crimson Dynamo]

how would they be able to tell who was the poorest girl without detailed financial history?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

I think that's the crux of it really, saying "We no longer want you to come here" is very different to being expelled, which would be a much longer disciplinary process with various checks and balances. Legally they would have to have good reason to expel. It's just the same as with employment really; if someone hasn't started a new job yet, the employer can withdraw the offer. If they're already in employment, firing them isn't a simple process.

A few people were removed from my wife's course during her time there, for reasons far worse than this and even then its a process that takes 3+ months.

...I know Durham Uni, it was my ‘local’ as a child growing up...it’s an excellent uni, one of the top ones globally...and it’s quite a privilege to get a place...you really wouldn’t want to risk ‘messing it up’ if you had...

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

how would they be able to tell who was the poorest girl without detailed financial history?

The one wearing news paper knickers I guess

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

how would they be able to tell who was the poorest girl without detailed financial history?

I know right, what was the criteria, just show immaturity

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by Liam-

I doubt living in halls was going to teach him not to treat women like disposable objects or treat people less well off with respect

Of course it could if he came against someone who is willing to challenge his views, halls have a mixture of age groups and genders

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

how would they be able to tell who was the poorest girl without detailed financial history?

Not the posh boys thinking the poor would come in covered in soot and wearing rags.