[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

But again we only have their word he 'discarded' them, they said they felt discarded , well one of them did, maybe they all just moved on in life , didn't Michael get married and have kids of his own ,maybe his time was more needed for them , could be the boys grew older and faded away (until now) , MJ had tours ,recordings, many , many things to do maybe it was just a lack of time , besides he stayed friends with a few of them , and he also had lady friends and no doubt a lot of his time was taken up with career stuff.

Very strong response.

Also Cherie made a really strong response with good observances.

My answer as to was it abusive is a very short one, unusually for me.

It's simply.
No it's not abusive.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Very strong response.

Also Cherie made a really strong response with good observances.

My answer as to was it abusive is a very short one, unusually for me.

It's simply.
No it's not abusive.

In your opinion. You do realise what abandonment does to children emotionally if that did happen?

[chuff me dizzy]

Originally Posted by Kazanne

This has already been explained,but nevermind.

I remember someone said his lawyer( I think it was lawyer) advised him to pay up, but IF he were innocent he would have fought it out in a court of law and eradicated the doubt of guilt that hung over his head since he did it

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

In your opinion. You do realise what abandonment does to children emotionally if that did happen?

Well of course its in my opinion.
Whose other could it be.

He didn't abandon them anyway.
The Mother's still had contact at times with him.

It may be upsetting but they weren't his children to abandon anyway.

They didn't live with him permanently for goodness sake.
He was clearly generous the time they spent with him and enjoyed the lifestyle they had.

I'd bet had they been in desperate need he'd have been there for them and helped them.

Of course you'd likely say he only used and abused them no matter what I say anyway.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

In your opinion. You do realise what abandonment does to children emotionally if that did happen?

Annie,I was abandoned by my real mother when I was 3, and I was adopted by my stepmom,we had a good life and although I always wondered about my mom,I feel I am quite emotionally stable and able to forgive her, I did find her many years later but she had passed on,so I still missed out on her ,but I did find several siblings,I don't think they were abandoned they had their parents,homes etc and they must have had other friends.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Well of course its in my opinion.
Whose other could it be.

He didn't abandon them anyway.
The Mother's still had contact at times with him.

It may be upsetting but they weren't his children to abandon anyway.

They didn't live with him permanently for goodness sake.
He was clearly generous the time they spent with him and enjoyed the lifestyle they had.

I'd bet had they been in desperate need he'd have been there for them and helped them.

Of course you'd likely say he only used and abused them no matter what I say anyway.

Also they could have missed his company and gifts he gave them !!!

[user104658]

It seems fairly clear, then, that some people simply believe he could do no wrong and won't even accept that he was a bit irresponsible with kids emotions, so I suppose very unsurprising that that it wouldnt be accepted that he did any worse.

You can literally track his press through the years and see the "main kid" being swapped at regular intervals but "nah, no proof, didn't happen, he was unquestionably awesome".

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I know. I said "at the very least"

To me this sounds more like grasping at straws , it's like you're saying "ought even if MJ isn't a paedophile he was still inappropriate" whatever that means .

It's like when people put emphasis on "emotional abuse" again what a load of rubbish .

If you see someone as weird and not normal then you see things that aren't exactly true, just saying . Media have been gunning for mj for years and now they're enjoying these new allegations . There's people who want mj to be this "freaky child abuser" it's worrying how things get twisted.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

To me this sounds more like grasping at straws , it's like you're saying "ought even if MJ isn't a paedophile he was still inappropriate" whatever that means .



It's like when people put emphasis on "emotional abuse" again what a load of rubbish .



If you see someone as weird and not normal then you see things that aren't exactly true, just saying . Media have been gunning for mj for years and now they're enjoying these new allegations . There's people who want mj to be this "freaky child abuser" it's worrying how things get twisted.

Well no that's not what I'm saying at all, I firmly believe that his clear inappropriate behaviour was because he was a paedophile, any other excuse for his clearly inappropriate behaviour around kids, to me, is people "grasping at straws "

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

It seems fairly clear, then, that some people simply believe he could do no wrong and won't even accept that he was a bit irresponsible with kids emotions, so I suppose very unsurprising that that it wouldnt be accepted that he did any worse.

You can literally track his press through the years and see the "main kid" being swapped at regular intervals but "nah, no proof, didn't happen, he was unquestionably awesome".

I am looking at facts.
Many times I've said he was strange with bizarre behaviour.
I've tried to qualify that in a less negative way than yourself.

I have even stated I'd find it inappropriate children staying with him so young on their own.
However their parents didn't think any of those things and they spent long periods with their children, and him too at his home.

I'm not going to waste my time too much, as you accuse of being blind to him, which I am not.
Yet you can just throw all out positive to him, while spouting all your negatives re him.

You believe this pair,.I don't.
I don't because they've already lied before.
On oath,.all through visiting and repeatedly staying with him, with and without their parents.
Then also for years after too even after they had little to no contact with him.

So either they lied all those years, right well into their twenties.
Or they are lying now.
They can't be being truthful both times.

I can't trust or believe them now.
You can justify all the lies they must have then told for near 2 decades.
To suit the agenda of wanting Jackson guilty.

Myself and others have listened to them and to me their story does not add up.
It does to you, fair enough.
However you used the term some, (of which I'm pretty sure I'm one you infer), won't see any wrong in him.

I can throw that back .that some don't and don't even try to see right in him too.

I'm not going to waste my time much on the investigation and trial etc. Knowing your dismissal of same.

It beats me why they bothered to have any investigation and trial.
As it appears probably some knew he was guilty anyway, so a lot of time and money could have been saved by asking them and not bother with the law process at all.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well no that's not what I'm saying at all, I firmly believe that his clear inappropriate behaviour was because he was a paedophile, any other excuse for his clearly inappropriate behaviour around kids, to me, is people "grasping at straws "

Disagree with you !

People are trying to say MJ abandoned kids,these kids were NOT even his own children OMG . why not question the parenting of these kids .

Plus MJ was a dad and had his own kids to look after , plus he was extremely busy working ,either performing or going on tours as well as charity work. I honestly think some of these fans expected or wanted mj to spend 24/7 with them which is NOT possible !!! .

Wade's mother kept pushing herself and wade back into MJ's life ,she kept writing him letters and kept stalking him . But they've made it seem like MJ was the one pursuing them. Like I said it's easy to twist things when facts are ignored .

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Disagree with you !

People are trying to say MJ abandoned kids,these kids were NOT even his own children OMG . why not question the parenting of these kids .

Plus MJ was a dad and had his own kids to look after , plus he was extremely busy working ,either performing or going on tours as well as charity work. I honestly think some of these fans expected or wanted mj to spend 24/7 with them which is NOT possible !!! .

Wade's mother kept pushing herself and wade back into MJ's life ,she kept writing him letters and kept stalking him . But they've made it seem like MJ was the one pursuing them. Like I said it's easy to twist things when facts are ignored .

Absolutely right.
Superb post.

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well no that's not what I'm saying at all, I firmly believe that his clear inappropriate behaviour was because he was a paedophile, any other excuse for his clearly inappropriate behaviour around kids, to me, is people "grasping at straws "

Absolutely right in my opinion too
I've never bought the "he never had a childhood" bollocks. Like that should excuse his questionable behaviour around pre pubescent children. Plenty of people had far worse and never felt that having children stay in their beds is the way to get over that.

The parents are also guilty.

In fact the only innocents of this whole sordid tale are the children who have been exposed to all of this (at the time- whether you believe the allegations or not, they should never have been placed in a situation such as that where inappropriateness could or could not happen), either by their parents or by a global superstar who had a strong team of advisors around him.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Absolutely right.
Superb post.

I listened to an interview MJ did a few years ago where he said he visited a children's hospital, the media accused him of ignoring the children even though he took Minnie & mickey mouse there to cheer them up . He knew he couldn't win whatever he did as the media was out to get him .

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

You have instantly believed it because you believe MJ to be innocent though - its no different to people disbelieving it because they believe his guilt

Quite possibly is true his account, if his mum was on Jackson's payroll, he will have spent time with him. If it is true, his mum obviously spent a lot of time in Jackson's inner circle and was close to him, makes sense that if he was an abuser he wouldn't have abused this boy - he liked to keep the parents more at arms length rather than have them working closely with him.

Very true...my thoughts exactly.

[GoldHeart]

If Wade & James' story is so true then why have they constantly changed their stories and contradicted time lines ??. According to them all MJ ever did was abuse them every day ! While getting drunk ,Without working or spending time with his own family & kids .

Plus why has Leaving Neverland edited a huge chunk out the film ???

[AnnieK]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

If Wade & James' story is so true then why have they constantly changed their stories and contradicted time lines ??. According to them all MJ ever did was abuse them every day ! While getting drunk ,Without working or spending time with his own family & kids .

Plus why has Leaving Neverland edited a huge chunk out the film ???

All three of his kids were born after the allegations, he didn't have his own children at the time they allege this took place

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I listened to an interview MJ did a few years ago where he said he visited a children's hospital, the media accused him of ignoring the children even though he took Minnie & mickey mouse there to cheer them up . He knew he couldn't win whatever he did as the media was out to get him .

Jimmy Saville used to visit children’s hospitals...treating the kids to outings ....

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

Absolutely right in my opinion too

I've never bought the "he never had a childhood" bollocks. Like that should excuse his questionable behaviour around pre pubescent children. Plenty of people had far worse and never felt that having children stay in their beds is the way to get over that.



The parents are also guilty.



In fact the only innocents of this whole sordid tale are the children who have been exposed to all of this (at the time- whether you believe the allegations or not, they should never have been placed in a situation such as that where inappropriateness could or could not happen), either by their parents or by a global superstar who had a strong team of advisors around him.

I absolutely agree with you that the parents are also guilty, they did not do their job which is to protect and safe guard their children from danger and most likely were seduced by money and fame. That does not take any blame away from MJ though imo.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

All three of his kids were born after the allegations, he didn't have his own children at the time they allege this took place

MJ still had a family he spent time with , plus where was Lisa Presley when all this alleged
abuse took place . I know they were only married 2 years but still . plus how can they be abused every single day isn't that far fetched ?!!! .

And where was Brandi ?? Who was dating Wade for almost 10 years .

And Wade & James claim MJ lost interest and moved onto Brett Barnes & Macaulay Culkin , yet there's evidence James is still in Mj's life when he was well in his later teens .

Plus Wade continued to be apart of mj's life while gaining more fame & money thanks to MJ opening doors for him .

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Jimmy Saville used to visit children’s hospitals...treating the kids to outings ....

Paedophiles tend to be brazen in that way, I mean Jimmy Saville actually had a show that granted kids their wishes. . .

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Paedophiles tend to be brazen in that way, I mean Jimmy Saville actually had a show that granted kids their wishes. . .

I wish people would stop comparing Saville to MJ . Saville never stood trial whereas MJ did ,plus there was evidence to prove Saville was GUILTY .

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

I wish people would stop comparing Saville to MJ . Saville never stood trial whereas MJ did ,plus there was evidence to prove Saville was GUILTY .

Why not?...the similarities are there. The wealth...the gifts...the adulation and fixation with children.
You were trying to make out MJ did so much for children and those in hospitals...it does not prove he is innocent.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Why not?...the similarities are there. The wealth...the gifts...the adulation and fixation with children.
You were trying to make out MJ did so much for children and those in hospitals...it does not prove he is innocent.

No,but court of law did

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

Why not?...the similarities are there. The wealth...the gifts...the adulation and fixation with children.
You were trying to make out MJ did so much for children and those in hospitals...it does not prove he is innocent.

Wowww I wasn't using his charity work to excuse anything. I simply said he stood trial and was found INNOCENT , you can't label someone a "paedophile" just because you think he's weird .

He was highly investigated for years !!! . Had negative media coverage for years !! .

Nothing like Saville!