[Crimson Dynamo]

Donald Tusk, the EU Council president, looked to be carrying the burdens of the world
when he gave his latest news conference about Brexit in Brussels.

His melancholy might account for his distinctly undemocratic outburst on the eve of
crucial talks aimed at avoiding a no-deal withdrawal from the bloc. Mr Tusk said
there was a “special place in hell” reserved for those who had promoted Brexit
without a plan to implement it safely.

Yet this was no off-the-cuff remark by a wearied Eurocrat dreading another encounter
with Theresa May, but what appears to have been a deliberately provocative statement
intended to isolate Brexiteers in Britain, who are seen by Brussels as the main
obstacle to a deal. To this extent, Mr Tusk is right – the Government has not
been able so far to articulate a means of leaving the EU that can command a majority in Parliament.



Article 50, inserted into the Lisbon Treaty ostensibly to facilitate a member state’s
exit in an amicable way, to the mutual benefit of both sides, turns out to be a sham
intended either to prevent departure or to bring it about almost entirely on terms dictated by Brussels.

One theory is that the Commission is in a panic because it detects cracks appearing
among the 27 over the EU’s negotiating stance. Both Mr Tusk and Jean-Claude Juncker,
the Commission president, reasserted that Mrs May would be offered nothing new when she travels to Brussels today.

If she hopes to hear that they are ready to reopen the Withdrawal Agreement text to
accommodate changes to the Irish backstop then she is likely to be disappointed.

The EU’s tactics appear to be to give nothing away and see what happens when the
matter returns to the Commons next week. But with less than two months to the UK’s
departure, the phoney frustrations of Mr Tusk may backfire by making a no-deal Brexit
the only option left. Is that what the EU wants? If that happens then Mr Tusk will have every cause to be despondent.

That may well be a failure of governance, but not of democracy. What Mr Tusk’s
sneering remark betrayed was the utter contempt for the expressed views of
British voters in the 2016 referendum. The implication of what he said is
that no country can ever leave the EU in an orderly way, nor should voters
be asked a question that has a difficult or uncertain answer.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/...tive-outburst/

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Donald Tusk, the EU Council president, looked to be carrying the burdens of the world
when he gave his latest news conference about Brexit in Brussels.

His melancholy might account for his distinctly undemocratic outburst on the eve of
crucial talks aimed at avoiding a no-deal withdrawal from the bloc. Mr Tusk said
there was a “special place in hell” reserved for those who had promoted Brexit
without a plan to implement it safely.

Yet this was no off-the-cuff remark by a wearied Eurocrat dreading another encounter
with Theresa May, but what appears to have been a deliberately provocative statement
intended to isolate Brexiteers in Britain, who are seen by Brussels as the main
obstacle to a deal. To this extent, Mr Tusk is right – the Government has not
been able so far to articulate a means of leaving the EU that can command a majority in Parliament.



Article 50, inserted into the Lisbon Treaty ostensibly to facilitate a member state’s
exit in an amicable way, to the mutual benefit of both sides, turns out to be a sham
intended either to prevent departure or to bring it about almost entirely on terms dictated by Brussels.

One theory is that the Commission is in a panic because it detects cracks appearing
among the 27 over the EU’s negotiating stance. Both Mr Tusk and Jean-Claude Juncker,
the Commission president, reasserted that Mrs May would be offered nothing new when she travels to Brussels today.

If she hopes to hear that they are ready to reopen the Withdrawal Agreement text to
accommodate changes to the Irish backstop then she is likely to be disappointed.

The EU’s tactics appear to be to give nothing away and see what happens when the
matter returns to the Commons next week. But with less than two months to the UK’s
departure, the phoney frustrations of Mr Tusk may backfire by making a no-deal Brexit
the only option left. Is that what the EU wants? If that happens then Mr Tusk will have every cause to be despondent.

That may well be a failure of governance, but not of democracy. What Mr Tusk’s
sneering remark betrayed was the utter contempt for the expressed views of
British voters in the 2016 referendum. The implication of what he said is
that no country can ever leave the EU in an orderly way, nor should voters
be asked a question that has a difficult or uncertain answer.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/...tive-outburst/

No not at all, he was basically highlighting that we had a campaign to vote out and noone from that campaign has stayed on to follow it through as there was no plan of how to exit, if you are offering a choice, you have to be able to deliver, it looks like it can be delivered but to what cost, to the economy and peace in Ireland. I doubt very much ANYONE considered the border in Ireland would be such a sticking point, it never crossed my mind and it never came up much during the campaigns on either in or out

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Cherie

No not at all, he was basically highlighting that we had a campaign to vote out and noone from that campaign has stayed on to follow it through as there was no plan of how to exit, if you are offering a choice, you have to be able to deliver, it looks like it can be delivered but to what cost, to the economy and peace in Ireland. I doubt very much ANYONE considered the border in Ireland would be such a sticking point, it never crossed my mind and it never came up much during the campaigns on either in or out

Pretty much, every single leader of the Brexit campaign turned tail and ran as soon as they won because they knew they ran on a platform of bull**** and couldn't deliver any of the **** they promised.

Tusk's words are needlessly inflammatory but the target of his derision is deserved. People who led the brexit campaign had no interest in sticking around to see it come to fruition, they had no plans and no idea how to go about doing what they lied themselves into.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Cherie

No not at all, he was basically highlighting that we had a campaign to vote out and noone from that campaign has stayed on to follow it through as there was no plan of how to exit, if you are offering a choice, you have to be able to deliver, it looks like it can be delivered but to what cost, to the economy and peace in Ireland. I doubt very much ANYONE considered the border in Ireland would be such a sticking point, it never crossed my mind and it never came up much during the campaigns on either in or out

could any plan have taken into account the intransigence of Brussels and their desperation for the cracks not to appear after we leave?

[bots]

People are trying to make out that his comment was an affront to our democracy and that it was insulting to the British people when it was not.

Everyone knows that there have been plenty lies told by both sides of the argument, there is even evidence that foreign powers influenced the result. That doesn't change anything.

My own view is that a plan should have been developed before the people were given a vote on it, because even now, it's not yet certain, so how could the people possible decide it 2 years ago? So in that respect he is 100% correct.

[Livia]

More rudeness and intransigence from the European Union.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Livia

More rudeness and intransigence from the European Union.

UGH

yes we in the EU definitely look like villains


making snidy remarks at EU like this, is like the sort of choices which could lead up in a war


not my intention for myself to be against Britain, not at all but some things i just cannot agree with

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

UGH

yes we in the EU definitely look like villains


making snidy remarks at EU like this, is like the sort of choices which could lead up in a war


not my intention for myself to be against Britain, not at all but some things i just cannot agree with

Nicky, you've made it quite clear with your own snidey remarks lately just what you think of Britain.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

UGH

yes we in the EU definitely look like villains


making snidy remarks at EU like this, is like the sort of choices which could lead up in a war


not my intention for myself to be against Britain, not at all but some things i just cannot agree with

No we don't

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

No we don't

Can you adopt me for the passport? I'm house trained.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by The Slim Reaper

Can you adopt me for the passport? I'm house trained.

of course

[Livia]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

No we don't

The whole EU isn't responsible for one man's badly chosen words. Well actually he's just the latest man from the EU to be rude and dismissive. If your president was treated as rudely as May was, you might feel differently.

[Nicky91]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

No we don't

that was sarcasm from me, of course we don't

[The Slim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

of course

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

The whole EU isn't responsible for one man's badly chosen words. Well actually he's just the latest man from the EU to be rude and dismissive. If your president was treated as rudely as May was, you might feel differently.

No one would dare treat the lovely Miggeldy Higgins badly

[Cherie]

David Cameron gets so much stick for bowing out, but he lost

Farage got his dream result and ran for the hills that says it all for me

[Crimson Dynamo]

The EU's 'deal' was voted down by two-thirds of Parliament. The reason for that is that the 'backstop' is completely unacceptable whether you are a leaver, a remainer or a vegetable.

The EU is still in fantasyland, thinking they can put the 'deal' to another vote essentially unchanged, and this time it will pass.

Then they have the nerve to slam Brexiteers for having 'no plan'.


-----

The UK, Ireland and EU all agree that there should be no "hard" border.

Yet the EU insists on keeping the terms of the backstop in case there's "no deal", so that a hard border can be avoided, in the full knowledge that this makes "the deal" unacceptable to most in parliament, which could easily lead to "the deal" being finally rejected, and then they's HAVE to have a hard border!

Somewhat incoherent policy from the EU.

They have got a lot of hard thinking to do, and they need to hurry up and do it.

---
a couple of the top comments from that leader article^^

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Cherie

David Cameron gets so much stick for bowing out, but he lost

Farage got his dream result and ran for the hills that says it all for me

It seemed pretty reasonable to me that David Cameron would step down since he clearly didn't think Leaving was a good idea. You're dead right, it's those like Farage who were telling everyone how wonderful leaving would be should have been the ones leading the way through and who has let the British people down

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

could any plan have taken into account the intransigence of Brussels and their desperation for the cracks not to appear after we leave?

I do agree Brussels are playing hard ball, but what did people expect? I also think they don't really give a rats ass about the Irish border, its just a very convenient sticking point if they really cared they would be trying to compromise.

[Tom4784]

He's only 'rude and dismissive' to the people who ****ed us over as soon as they got the result they wanted. Not surprising to see the spin machine going into overdrive by the press though, when the facts don't suit your agenda, just spin 'em until the lies are convincing enough.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Farage has never run away he has done more media than any politician on this since the vote and has a nightly radio show dealing direct with the public

Cameron, the vile rat, RAN AWAY and continues to run

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

The EU's 'deal' was voted down by two-thirds of Parliament. The reason for that is that the 'backstop' is completely unacceptable whether you are a leaver, a remainer or a vegetable.

The EU is still in fantasyland, thinking they can put the 'deal' to another vote essentially unchanged, and this time it will pass.

Then they have the nerve to slam Brexiteers for having 'no plan'.


-----

The UK, Ireland and EU all agree that there should be no "hard" border.

Yet the EU insists on keeping the terms of the backstop in case there's "no deal", so that a hard border can be avoided, in the full knowledge that this makes "the deal" unacceptable to most in parliament, which could easily lead to "the deal" being finally rejected, and then they's HAVE to have a hard border!

Somewhat incoherent policy from the EU.

They have got a lot of hard thinking to do, and they need to hurry up and do it.

---
a couple of the top comments from that leader article^^

I agree with all this, the EU's hard stance is pushing us to a hard border.

[Tom4784]

Yeah, he only quit UKIP as soon as the vote was announced and then disappeared up Trump's arsehole for the better part of a year in hopes of becoming a US politics commentator. He didn't run away at all.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

Farage has never run away he has done more media than any politician on this since the vote and has a nightly radio show dealing direct with the public

Cameron, the vile rat, RAN AWAY and continues to run

Why would Cameron stay when he was pushing for the voters to remain and clearly felt unequipped to lead the UK out of Europe?

[Withano]

Common sense