[JerseyWins]

To you and Ant "peer pressure" psychology seems to mean a lot more than "self-identity" psychology. Which is such a backwards way of thinking and why people try to fix it by slapping a bandaid uniform on students instead. As if they can't freely dress, find their own identity and get past the peer pressure and worries on their own. (EDIT: with guidance of course)

And clothing is surely not the basis of self-identity, I know that, but it plays a part without a doubt in the same way people getting piercings and tattoos etc. does it for them.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by AnnieK

its all washed and ready to go on a monday with 5 clean shirts etc so he doesn't have to think when he gets up and I don't have to worry

organisation goals Annie... I'm lucky if I have enough ready to scrape by til Tuesday so that I can rewash their Monday stuff and hastily iron it at 8.20 on Wednesday morning .

I mean they literally each have 5+ uniforms somewhere, I'm sure they do, but I'm nowhere near proactive enough to have them ready over the weekend.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Toy Soldier

organisation goals Annie... I'm lucky if I have enough ready to scrape by til Tuesday so that I can rewash their Monday stuff and hastily iron it at 8.20 on Wednesday morning .

I mean they literally each have 5+ uniforms somewhere, I'm sure they do, but I'm nowhere near proactive enough to have them ready over the weekend.

Mine have a school tracksuit and a uniform so 3 days uniform, 2 days tracksuit, it's a bit easier although mine are 15 and 18 so they have to make sure that they're washed themselves now

I haven't read all of the toing and froing here on this thread but I never realised it was so serious I've had a uniform conversation with my daughter before and she way prefers it, saves alot of wasted time and energy in the mornings

[Elliot]

Originally Posted by Ant.

okay I was sorta understanding what you were saying but 'destroying any sense of individuality' seems really extreme like... I don't feel unique walking around in jeans and a shirt rather than in a uniform. A lot of people feel that way but meh I guess it depends on the person

Well yeah, of course they want to look good It'd be ideal if they could keep it up 24/7 but they can't. Uniform is just a simple rule and while it can be overly strict, it isn't necessarily a bad thing. That can be controlled, whereas the pressures teacher's face can't always. Do you have a job? If you do, do you make a conscious effort to be focused and 'better' than you are when you're not around them? I certainly do. It's no different for teachers


I don't really understand your point? The whole point of school is to pass the exams. The advice always is do well in your exams rather than learning for the hell of it. And past papers are probably the best resource for revision for most people because it identifies weak areas and also practice exam technique which is what will get you the grades. That applies to most, if not 'all' schools. In the end, learning cell functions is fine and dandy, but would they always explicitly state "name this organelle" and "where does aerobic respiration occur in cells?". They'd phrase it in questions which make you think about what it's asking you for and whatever you get wrong you can learn there and then - within ten minutes you can cover exam technique, what you do and don't know, and how to improve on a topic, whereas going through it again in a lesson would only waste time. I'm sincerely hoping I'm not missing what point you're trying to make, I'm just a tad confused? Are you suggesting teachers don't teach anymore and make you teach yourself? If that's the case this part was completely irrelevant but yeah. idk what you mean

I was trying to relay the uniform issue to a wider problem with the education system that I have huge problems with. Didn’t wanna go too deep since debates here never go anywhere and usually just end in arguments and frustration but w/e

I think the education system in this country is awful. I think the philosophy behind the education system is abhorrent. I think the implementation of it is even worse. I think uniform plays into some of the major toxicity in the institutionalisation philosophy that plagues pretty much all public schools, and any ounce of benifit from uniforms is trivialised by the fact that they aren’t enforced in college and uni for some reason lol.

I can understand my point about lessons and exam prep not going over well, maybe you didn’t have similar experiences? The teaching at my school was awful and it ironically didn’t have much to do with the actual teachers. A lot of the teachers were being pressured by higher ups to skip units to start exam prep, continually give out and mark past papers and homework instead of plan lessons, ignore entire syllabuses because they ‘probably won’t be in this years exam’ . Less engaging with a lesson and more copying out of books over and over and doing hundreds of past papers, you know? I vented about this on another forum and a lot of people my age had similar experiences, some even worse cases of the school being really desperate for certain grade quotas. One apparently had the maths teacher who looked at the exam of that year like a week before they had to do it, and told the students what to study for that week knowing what will be in it lol, and nobody cared or complained because they all did really well.

I do think there are some good schools out there, but for the most part it just seems to me that the people that work at these places are more bothered about numbers than the well-being and education of the thousands of students who go there, and nobody with any power ever bothers questioning it because of the good grades and good ofsted meetings

[JerseyWins]

I’m back again I totally forgot I didn’t finish replying to one of Marsh’s posts in a rush yesterday, which are actually pro-uniform arguments.

Originally Posted by Marsh.

Erm, no, no they're not.

But is this supposed to be against uniforms? Because this example you use is actually worse and more dangerous with kids wearing anything they choose, something different everyday. An intruder just has to walk in if your example is true, wearing anything they want.



That could literally apply to anything.
If someone is so unorganised they've misplaced clothing, or forgot to wash it then they will do that no matter what the clothes are.



Well, with that ridiculous mindset forcing children to attend school at all is limiting their freedom. But that's why they're kids. They don't have 100% autonomy on 100% of their lives. They have parents, guardians who are responsible for them until they come of age for a reason.

- The pro-uniforms point that was originally made was that it was a type of safety measure for students. They know which kids belong to which school, if there’s an intruder in the building, etc. etc. (I specifically brought up intruder but the original point was that exact type of reasoning)

My argument is that’s not true, as another kid, or potentially more dangerous intruder can blend right in if they simply know the uniform policy and match it. It’s not difficult to do. It’s a pro-uniforms point I disagree with actually being beneficial. Furthermore, if an intruder is actually spotted by someone in the hallway or on camera, which one is easier to find and identify? A unique face or a unique face AND wardrobe that they can warn supervisors/teachers/etc. about when they alarm a “code red” situation.


- It’s kinda easy to misplace one required item of clothing or be delayed on a planned wash schedule for something you have roughly 2 pairs of and no other choice or substitute. Typically a person in a regular situation would have other options to resolve being late for that reason.

The argument for uniforms is that it saves time in the morning. Not true necessarily. Your “unorganized” argument kinda makes the initial pro-uniforms point null and void as well Any organized person will have their wardrobe nicely sorted or even decided on the night before so that they take very little time to get ready in the morning.


- You also made another ridiculous exaggeration at the end there “why have them go to school at all” ... I explained this in depth in my latest post on the last page though so won’t get into it again. Apparently the thought process for one idea has to mean that an extreme comparison has to be true. Lol, no there should be regard to contexts & common sense obviously.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by JerseyWins

A unique face or a unique face AND wardrobe that they can warn supervisors/teachers/etc. about when they alarm a “code red” situation.


- It’s kinda easy to misplace one required item of clothing or be delayed on a planned wash schedule for something you have roughly 2 pairs of and no other choice or substitute. Typically a person in a regular situation would have other options to resolve being late for that reason.

The argument for uniforms is that it saves time in the morning. Not true necessarily. Your “unorganized” argument kinda makes the initial pro-uniforms point null and void as well Any organized person will have their wardrobe nicely sorted or even decided on the night before so that they take very little time to get ready in the morning.

A unique wardrobe?

Will the school shooter enter the building dressed in bright red and a hat saying "MURDERER"?

As for the unorganised person point, that isn't really valid for or against uniforms. An unorganised person is an unorganised person regardless.

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Elliot

I do think there are some good schools out there, but for the most part it just seems to me that the people that work at these places are more bothered about numbers than the well-being and education of the thousands of students who go there, and nobody with any power ever bothers questioning it because of the good grades and good ofsted meetings

Yep, a government thing. Most schools have gone academy now so have all kinds of pressures put on them that the last thing they have time to focus on now is education.

Schools are run like businesses nowadays. A real shame.

[Macie Lightfoot]

I had this tab open for a while but never responded to it bc busy week but in defense of Jersey (?!?!), this is DEFINITELY a cultural thing. As another American, the idea of wearing a uniform to school is such a foreign concept if you go to a public school. A lot of the pro-uniform arguments about how it takes so much time to pick out an outfit to wear and how uniforms reduce bullying don't really apply in the US. American schoolchildren have kinda outgrown traditional schoolyard bullying and it's mostly done as cyberbullying through Instagram and whatever other social media platforms there are now, and nobody really gives a **** what anybody wears whether it be labels (I don't think I knew what a label was when I was in high school tbh), athletic clothes, jeans, anything. I just don't see the purpose of school uniforms as an American who went through public school his whole life and never had to deal with uniforms

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

I'm for them. It'd reduce the risk of poor kids being ridiculed for cheap trainers and no designer labels. It gives everyone a kind of equality.

This for me as to the merits of them too.

I loved however being in my school uniform

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Macie Lightfoot

I had this tab open for a while but never responded to it bc busy week but in defense of Jersey (?!?!), this is DEFINITELY a cultural thing. As another American, the idea of wearing a uniform to school is such a foreign concept if you go to a public school. A lot of the pro-uniform arguments about how it takes so much time to pick out an outfit to wear and how uniforms reduce bullying don't really apply in the US. American schoolchildren have kinda outgrown traditional schoolyard bullying and it's mostly done as cyberbullying through Instagram and whatever other social media platforms there are now, and nobody really gives a **** what anybody wears whether it be labels (I don't think I knew what a label was when I was in high school tbh), athletic clothes, jeans, anything. I just don't see the purpose of school uniforms as an American who went through public school his whole life and never had to deal with uniforms

Nobody's disputed that I don't think. Feelings towards uniforms will be dependent on if you grew up with it as a norm or not, I agree.

The point I addressed was the reason he used to explain how uniforms negatively impact students. Which I found baseless.

It's one thing saying "I don't like uniforms" or "I don't think we should have them" quite another to say "Uniforms shouldn't be the norm as they negatively impact on students" with nothing to back up the claim.