[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Swan

He was cuffed with his hands at the front of his body, he could have still got to a pocket. Obviously he wasn't as much of a threat, but the threat was still somewhat there as he was clearly resisting.

Officers are trained to restrain people without dealing damage or trauma to the neck or head. When they use the batons, for example, they cannot strike you above a certain point, blows are aimed at limbs mostly.

At the end of the day, the man was cuffed and on the floor and there were more than one officer present. Going on about what could have happened is pointless when it didn't happen, especially when that kind of argument is used to explain away something that DID happen.

[Liam-]

I can’t see anyone defending him, people are rightly criticising the rough, unwarranted ‘technique’ of a public servant

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by caprimint

Why would he be carrying a knife if the intent was not to harm/kill somebody, or at the very least scare people with it to use to his advantage?

I'm genuinely shocked that people are trying to defend him here. Actually... I'm not.

It's not about defending him, it's about not tolerating poor policing. I don't know why that's so difficult to grasp for people.

[caprimint]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

It's not about defending him, it's about not tolerating poor policing. I don't know why that's so difficult to grasp for people.

Well considering you're about "not creating hypotheticals" you should probably drop thinking about "what if" he caused trauma to his head or neck, because he didn't.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by caprimint

Well considering you're about "not creating hypotheticals" you should probably drop thinking about "what if" he caused trauma to his head or neck, because he didn't.

You need to read what I said again because you've completely misread it.

I never used that as a hypothetical, I just said that the police aren't allowed to deal any kind of trauma to the head or neck. Leaning on someone's head or neck is just bad policing.

[Nicky91]

ok now there is the info he was armed with a knife, i can understand why he was arrested

but if he was already in handcuffs, no way he could've stabbed someone like that, so kneeling on top of him was not necessary anymore

so good on police intervening in time before he actually stabbed (injured or killed) someone, but the kneeling part was out of line, especially should've known better given with all BLM protests in news recently

[caprimint]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You need to read what I said again because you've completely misread it.

I never used that as a hypothetical, I just said that the police aren't allowed to deal any kind of trauma to the head or neck. Leaning on someone's head or neck is just bad policing.

Is there anybody who even disagrees with that though? They were struggling against him because he was...

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Glenn.

He didn’t stab anyone though did he? I think you’re missing the point...

Like someone has stated, the officer being suspended means he was the one in the wrong. And rightly so.

...just like your buddy, you failed to read my post properly which makes your response null and void.
Of course he has been suspended..he has been suspended because of what happened in America and the repercussions. The police have probably been restraining people like this for years without incident.
My response was based on Dezzys comment of IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT HE DID...well actually it does because IF he had killed someone this officer woud have been a hero for restraining him in whatever way he saw fit.

[caprimint]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

...just like your buddy, you failed to read my post properly which makes your response null and void.
Of course he has been suspended..he has been suspended because of what happened in America and the repercussions. The police have probably been restraining people like this for years without incident.
My response was based on Dezzys comment of IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT HE DID...well actually it does because IF he had killed someone this officer woud have been a hero for restraining him in whatever way he saw fit.

You said all of this perfectly

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by caprimint

Is there anybody who even disagrees with that though? They were struggling against him because he was...

And that doesn't give them the right to disregard their training. They are taught how to take someone into custody without kneeling on their necks or heads. They did wrong, they disregarded their own rules and that kind of thing can prove deadly, as evidenced in the US, if you allow it to fester.

We must always criticise the police when they do wrong because when the police gets it wrong, it puts people in danger. The crime in unimportant, there's a code of conduct and this officer broke it.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

...just like your buddy, you failed to read my post properly which makes your response null and void.
Of course he has been suspended..he has been suspended because of what happened in America and the repercussions. The police have probably been restraining people like this for years without incident.
My response was based on Dezzys comment of IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT HE DID...well actually it does because IF he had killed someone this officer woud have been a hero for restraining him in whatever way he saw fit.

You're not getting it. You keep relying on fantasies to justify reality. You are incapable of being rational in this discussion.

The police officer got suspended because he did wrong, you're just making him out to be the victim when he was the one that disregarded his own training.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Nicky91

ok now there is the info he was armed with a knife, i can understand why he was arrested

but if he was already in handcuffs, no way he could've stabbed someone like that, so kneeling on top of him was not necessary anymore

so good on police intervening in time before he actually stabbed (injured or killed) someone, but the kneeling part was out of line, especially should've known better given with all BLM protests in news recently

I agree....but just because he was cuffed it did not stop him resisting. He can still lash out with his feet...his hands are in front of him not behind his back which is less restrictive. He can still get up, push, kick and run away.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by caprimint

Well considering you're about "not creating hypotheticals" you should probably drop thinking about "what if" he caused trauma to his head or neck, because he didn't.

Hmm but the "what if" isn't really about the potential consequences, the question isn't "was he hurt" in hindsight, the only important question is "is it dangerous". And that's not a hypothetical - it IS dangerous.

For what it's worth I don't think this officer was being deliberately careless or aggressive or had an intent to cause harm, but I do think from the video there's clear evidence of inexperience and bad practice that should be identified and addressed. It's also not really about the one officer involved - it indicates that there are issues with training and application when it comes to reasonable restraint that need to be looked at. I don't think he should be fired. But I do think he shouldn't be arresting anyone until there's evidence that appropriate training has been given (and genuinely understood - not just a checkbox exercise)

[Swan]

All this 'well it didn't happen, he didn't do this or that' nonsense. Surely prevention is the best way to go about it, by using force if necessary. Or are we in an age where we allow someone to potentially kill, rather than restrain, at the risk of offending some members of the public (whilst trying to protect and serve them). The man was carrying a knife, was resisting arrest, was violent, he was obviously dangerous and threat to the public. Should he have had his head knelt on when cuffed, nope, but in the heat of the moment, it can't be easy restraining a violent, armed criminal.

More training is needed, with increasing knife crime and violence, and with so much public unrest, these situations will arise more and more.

[Ammi]

...(..the guy was charged, this is about the restraint used and how appropriate that was...)...after interviewing the police officer making the arrest and scrutinising their body cam video footage...as well as obviously any witness videos as we’ve seen...the Deputy Police Commissioner described the arrest as ‘extremely disturbing’...and not in line with any training methods the police force are given...which is why one has been suspended and the other removed from operational duties...if it’s being said that this is an incorrect police decision also...?...that it isn’t just the officers who are open to the correct investigations for their action...but the Deputy Commissioner also...then that really is extremely worrying going forward with our police force...

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Swan

All this 'well it didn't happen, he didn't do this or that' nonsense. Surely prevention is the best way to go about it, by using force if necessary. Or are we in an age where we allow someone to potentially kill, rather than restrain, at the risk of offending some members of the public (whilst trying to protect and serve them). The man was carrying a knife, was resisting arrest, was violent, he was obviously dangerous and threat to the public. Should he have had his head knelt on when cuffed, nope, but in the heat of the moment, it can't be easy restraining a violent, armed criminal.

More training is needed, with increasing knife crime and violence, and with so much public unrest, these situations will arise more and more.

Nonsense, you can take preventative measures without kneeling on someone's neck or head, the police are trained to do so. Why are you trying to act like we're saying that we'd allow someone to kill another when that's not the case? You're shoving words down people's throats and it's a pathetic way of arguing your point.

At the end of the day, you can arrest a violent person without breaching protocol, thousands of officers do it every day.

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

You're not getting it. You keep relying on fantasies to justify reality. You are incapable of being rational in this discussion.

The police officer got suspended because he did wrong, you're just making him out to be the victim when he was the one that disregarded his own training.

No Dezzy you are not getting it. No one on here has disagreed with the officers suspension. At no point have I made him out to be a victim..its not my fault that you interpret my views wrongly. You are incapable of discussion. Next time we have a knifeman on the loose who actually stabs and kills someone lets just hope a policeman doesnt have to second think how to reprimand him without showing any aggression at the expense of endangering the public further.

Why is it you and your crew cant respond to debate without making it personal.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

No Dezzy you are not getting it. No one on here has disagreed with the officers suspension. At no point have I made him out to be a victim..its not my fault that you interpret my views wrongly. You are incapable of discussion. Next time we have a knifeman on the loose who actually stabs and kills someone lets just hope a policeman doesnt have to second think how to reprimand him without showing any aggression at the expense of endangering the public further.

Why is it you and your crew cant respond to debate without making it personal.

...excuse me..?..

[Swan]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Nonsense, you can take preventative measures without kneeling on someone's neck or head, the police are trained to do so. Why are you trying to act like we're saying that we'd allow someone to kill another when that's not the case? You're shoving words down people's throats and it's a pathetic way of arguing your point.

At the end of the day, you can arrest a violent person without breaching protocol, thousands of officers do it every day.

Im not shoving anything down your throat love.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

No Dezzy you are not getting it. No one on here has disagreed with the officers suspension. At no point have I made him out to be a victim..its not my fault that you interpret my views wrongly. You are incapable of discussion. Next time we have a knifeman on the loose who actually stabs and kills someone lets just hope a policeman doesnt have to second think how to reprimand him without showing any aggression at the expense of endangering the public further.

Why is it you and your crew cant respond to debate without making it personal.

Yeah, I'm not engaging with this, you have nothing more to add and I have nothing more to say.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Swan

Im not shoving anything down your throat love.

You basically made out that people who took issue with this would basically allow someone to be killed because.... the police can't restrain someone without kneeling on their neck?

[Glenn.]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

...just like your buddy, you failed to read my post properly which makes your response null and void.
Of course he has been suspended..he has been suspended because of what happened in America and the repercussions. The police have probably been restraining people like this for years without incident.
My response was based on Dezzys comment of IT DOESNT MATTER WHAT HE DID...well actually it does because IF he had killed someone this officer woud have been a hero for restraining him in whatever way he saw fit.

No what we can base this on is what ACTUALLY happened. What your nonsense post indicated was a scenario that never happened which is the real null and void.

[Tom4784]

When it comes down to it, if someone's in a position where you can kneel on their neck, they have likely already been detained. All these arguments and what ifs don't really apply. If someone is on the floor and cuffed, you don't need to lean on their neck or head.

[thesheriff443]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

When it comes down to it, if someone's in a position where you can kneel on their neck, they have likely already been detained. All these arguments and what ifs don't really apply. If someone is on the floor and cuffed, you don't need to lean on their neck or head.

Put me in the same position on the floor with the cuffs on at the front and I would seriously hurt you if you was a copper.

You lot have never been in a fight in your life.

When adrenaline kick in it gives people incredible strength that’s why you sometimes see 5 police trying to hold one guy.

[Swan]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

Put me in the same position on the floor with the cuffs on at the front and I would seriously hurt you if you was a copper.

You lot have never been in a fight in your life.

When adrenaline kick in it gives people incredible strength that’s why you sometimes see 5 police trying to hold one guy.

Hence being cuffed frontways (not even a word) he still posed a very real threat.