[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

Even after the verdict you're still creating your own narrative.
We've heard him ranting at here in covert footage, why would an abuser do that? Heard testimony from friends of hers that that was not an isolated incident and they had experienced these outbursts too.
That to me does not suggest it was some downtrodden partner snapping..

There may be other factors we are not aware of that prevent details of past relationships coming to light, prenuptial agreements or gagging orders, which to me are a form of coercive control in themselves.

I'm not creating anything, you simply have an incorrect assumption of what the outcome of this case means.

Very little would overcome Amber Heard appropriating rape stories to make herself look like a victim and basically goading Johnny Depp by telling him no one would believe him on tape. Neither are the actions of victims. The fact that we know that Depp tried to remedy the situation while Heard tried to keep things as they were is another strike against her.

Would you be defending Amber Heard's action if she was a man that had lied about being raped? That had told a woman that no one would believe her if she went public with what he had done? I don't think so. The difference is my opinion would remain the same regardless.

[user104658]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm not creating anything, you simply have an incorrect assumption of what the outcome of this case means.

Very little would overcome Amber Heard appropriating rape stories to make herself look like a victim and basically goading Johnny Depp by telling him no one would believe him on tape. Neither are the actions of victims. The fact that we know that Depp tried to remedy the situation while Heard tried to keep things as they were is another strike against her.

Would you be defending Amber Heard's action if she was a man that had lied about being raped? That had told a woman that no one would believe her if she went public with what he had done? I don't think so. The difference is my opinion would remain the same regardless.

I don't really disagree with any of what you're saying but I just think it's SUCH a messy situation, and they both very clearly have such significant personal demons, that it's pretty much impossible to pass any sort of moral judgement on the situation. I doubt we know even a fraction of the story, even when it comes to the circumstances of the recording.

Again I just feel quite sad for both of them because whether it's sad-looking Depp or grinning and smug looking Heard in the tabloid pictures, all I can see is two very unhappy individuals who were in a toxic mess of a relationship. I'm not trying to excuse either of them or make out that they're equal, just that it's so messy that there's little point trying to unravel it.

That probably applies to every personal relationship of course, but I think this one is especially murky, with the back-and-forth and the fact that they were blatantly both high as kites on coke while most of this was going on.

[Ammi]

...o have to say that I haven’t watched anything../...read anything regarding their relationship...other than vague things on here that were skim read when the trial was happening....but even if there are vids etc...they can be edited and manipulated, so we don’t know any context to the relationship at all...?...which is why I’m reluctant to comment, other than on the court ruling with the law suit and the at least 12 abuses proven truth...

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm not creating anything, you simply have an incorrect assumption of what the outcome of this case means.

Very little would overcome Amber Heard appropriating rape stories to make herself look like a victim and basically goading Johnny Depp by telling him no one would believe him on tape. Neither are the actions of victims. The fact that we know that Depp tried to remedy the situation while Heard tried to keep things as they were is another strike against her.

Would you be defending Amber Heard's action if she was a man that had lied about being raped? That had told a woman that no one would believe her if she went public with what he had done? I don't think so. The difference is my opinion would remain the same regardless.

Nope, she definitely would not.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I'm not creating anything, you simply have an incorrect assumption of what the outcome of this case means.

Very little would overcome Amber Heard appropriating rape stories to make herself look like a victim and basically goading Johnny Depp by telling him no one would believe him on tape. Neither are the actions of victims. The fact that we know that Depp tried to remedy the situation while Heard tried to keep things as they were is another strike against her.

Would you be defending Amber Heard's action if she was a man that had lied about being raped? That had told a woman that no one would believe her if she went public with what he had done? I don't think so. The difference is my opinion would remain the same regardless.

What presumption have I placed on the meaning of the outcome of the case?...
She was not on trial was she? Whatever anyone thinks of her it has no baring on the outcome of the case here.

I find it interesting that these 'strikes' are only against her and the findings of the case in her favour is not seen as a strike for Depp. .. He is still seen as the victim by you.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

What presumption have I placed on the meaning of the outcome of the case?...
She was not on trial was she? Whatever anyone thinks of her it has no baring on the outcome of the case here.

I find it interesting that these 'strikes' are only against her and the findings of the case in her favour is not seen as a strike for Depp. .. He is still seen as the victim by you.

The assumption that this case's outcome clears Heard and places all the blame on Depp, which is evidenced by you branding any criticism of Heard as 'mysoginistic trolling'.

It doesn't matter if she was on trial or not, I've always referred to the evidence we know of, her own recorded words and the fact she's twisted enough to co-opt someone else's trauma for her own use, as well as the fact that it was Depp that reached out for help, not her.

Evidence is evidence, Kizzy, and to me it screams wanton emotional, mental and coercive abuse. You keep trying to make this about gender but the truth is my opinion would remain the same if the genders were flipped. Hell, I'm typically far more supporting of women then I am men which is why, when this story first came about, I was completely supportive of Heard and I believed her without question.

I don't think Johnny Depp is innocent, but I think if anyone is a victim of abuse and they lash out, it's not right, but it's understandable. As I said before, I wouldn't condemn a woman for doing the same so I can't condemn a man if that's the case because that would be hypocrisy.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

The assumption that this case's outcome clears Heard and places all the blame on Depp, which is evidenced by you branding any criticism of Heard as 'mysoginistic trolling'.

It doesn't matter if she was on trial or not, I've always referred to the evidence we know of, her own recorded words and the fact she's twisted enough to co-opt someone else's trauma for her own use, as well as the fact that it was Depp that reached out for help, not her.

Evidence is evidence, Kizzy, and to me it screams wanton emotional, mental and coercive abuse. You keep trying to make this about gender but the truth is my opinion would remain the same if the genders were flipped. Hell, I'm typically far more supporting of women then I am men which is why, when this story first came about, I was completely supportive of Heard and I believed her without question.

I don't think Johnny Depp is innocent, but I think if anyone is a victim of abuse and they lash out, it's not right, but it's understandable. As I said before, I wouldn't condemn a woman for doing the same so I can't condemn a man if that's the case because that would be hypocrisy.

If you look at my posts in this thread I clearly haven't placed all the blame on one person in the relationship.
I don't keep trying to make this about gender, you have however by suggesting my feelings on rape would be different for men...you have no reason whatsoever to suggest that.
You've taken the accusations by one person and one comment used that as a basis to suggest all manner of character flaws as well as to absolve Depp of any culpability.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

If you look at my posts in this thread I clearly haven't placed all the blame on one person in the relationship.
I don't keep trying to make this about gender, you have however by suggesting my feelings on rape would be different for men...you have no reason whatsoever to suggest that.
You've taken the accusations by one person and one comment used that as a basis to suggest all manner of character flaws as well as to absolve Depp of any culpability.

I have literally said that Johnny Depp is not blameless multiple times. Pay attention.

You do make it about gender though, you suggested having a negative opinion about Heard was mysoginistic trolling, you're downplaying her actions in this post and bypassing all the **** she's done.

I've never said Depp was without blame, but that I can't completely condemn him since I wouldn't do so if it was a woman in his shoes.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I have literally said that Johnny Depp is not blameless multiple times. Pay attention.

You do make it about gender though, you suggested having a negative opinion about Heard was mysoginistic trolling, you're downplaying her actions in this post and bypassing all the **** she's done.

I've never said Depp was without blame, but that I can't completely condemn him since I wouldn't do so if it was a woman in his shoes.

I am paying attention.. (by the way this derogatory language isn't doing you any favours here)
They are both to blame yes and there is evidence of shocking behaviour on both sides, I see that's acknowledged but only Heard is getting tarred as an evil psycho. .
You are likening Depp to a victim and that's just not the case..literally.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

I am paying attention.. (by the way this derogatory language isn't doing you any favours here)
They are both to blame yes and there is evidence of shocking behaviour on both sides, I see that's acknowledged but only Heard is getting tarred as an evil psycho. .
You are likening Depp to a victim and that's just not the case..literally.

Leave the pearls out of it, Kizzy, claiming offense doesn't give your argument weight.

Neither are blameless but if you were being honest with yourself and saw the forest for the trees, it would be very difficult to both sides this given what we know of Amber Heard. Be real with me, Kizzy, would you honestly hold the same opinion you have for this case if the genders were reversed?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Kizzy

You are likening Depp to a victim and that's just not the case..literally.

Coming from the person calling any valid criticism of Heard "misogynistic".