[GoldGlitter]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Even if I did accept your takes here as true, or even close to true, how does that apply to the house at ALL?

She was talking specifically about the house, not US high schools.

That gang of boisterous boys are the jocks of the house. Women like Hanah who follows a religion who expect her to be servants for men have to adopt the same hypermasculine values. That's why she's constantly try's to show her power and dominance. By acting tough and intimidating others.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by GoldGlitter

That gang of boisterous boys are the jocks of the house.

I don't agree with the statement, but tell me what power these immigrants and working class lads of colour have that Ali doesn't have? I need someone that agrees with her to tell me how they are in any way above her in a 'hierarchy'. In what way is this educated well spoken middle class professional white woman on the bottom of it?

Originally Posted by GoldGlitter

Women like Hanah who follows a religion who expect her to be servants for men have to adopt the same hypermasculine values That's why she's constantly try's to show her power and dominance. By acting tough and intimidating others.

You do know that you can use the word 'Muslim', right? You have a used a lot of extra words there to seemingly avoid doing so.

But, she is servile and that's why she is 'tough and intimidating'? That doesn't make much sense. Can you expand on it so that I understand?

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Ammi

……’she is ginger though’….Martha is that you…?…

You've got me.

It's giving Psychic Sally vibes.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by rusticgal

It was not major...it was when they were discussing Martha's dress sense and Nathan wasn't agreeing with Ali's opinion and told her to **** off before shutting the smoking room door.

I feel like Nathan came across really bad in that exchange imo.

Martha hasn't done anything to warrant her dress sense being attacked I feel.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Just you and me then …

Ali is hated in this forum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

I don't hate Ali either.

And there are a few other members who have her as their favourite.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

You've got me.

It's giving Psychic Sally vibes.

Yeah I don't get why Martha was making out Ginger & Red is different, when red gets used alot to describe ginger. Plus 'Ginger witch ' doesn't have the same ring to it .

Ali secretly loves the drama of ' red witch ', she's milking this storyline for the rest of the BB series it seems for the whole duration .

so god help us all to keep listening to it...so I guess we'll have to keep hearing her repeat over & over again " wolf "
& " I'm the red witch" tee hee . She won't let it drop ... it's beyond boring ,even when goblin got into bed with her she said " come here little wolf" .

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

Yeah I don't get why Martha was making out Ginger & Red is different, when red gets used alot to describe ginger. Plus 'Ginger witch ' doesn't have the same ring to it .

Ali secretly loves the drama of ' red witch ', she's milking this storyline for the rest of the BB series it seems for the whole duration .

so god help us all to keep listening to it...so I guess we'll have to keep hearing her repeat over & over again " wolf "
& " I'm the red witch" tee hee . She won't let it drop ... it's beyond boring ,even when goblin got into bed with her she said " come here little wolf" .

Tbf to Ali, I do think that is her way of trying to take it in good spirits.

She just has a strange personality though, and she admittedly does love to cause drama normally, so it's hard to tell when she's having a laugh.

[GoldHeart]

Originally Posted by Mystic Mock

Tbf to Ali, I do think that is her way of trying to take it in good spirits.

She just has a strange personality though, and she admittedly does love to cause drama normally, so it's hard to tell when she's having a laugh.

She keeps bringing it up ,which suggests to me she cannot move on . So whether it's tongue in cheek or not , she will probably be printing off t shirts that say ' Red Witch ' with her face plastered on it ,when she actually leaves BB .....she's going to try and make money off this saga .

[Cherie]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I don't agree with the statement, but tell me what power these immigrants and working class lads of colour have that Ali doesn't have? I need someone that agrees with her to tell me how they are in any way above her in a 'hierarchy'. In what way is this educated well spoken middle class professional white woman on the bottom of it?




You do know that you can use the word 'Muslim', right? You have a used a lot of extra words there to seemingly avoid doing so.

But, she is servile and that's why she is 'tough and intimidating'? That doesn't make much sense. Can you expand on it so that I understand?

Hilarious isn't it, sometimes I think the social experiment is more about the viewer than the HM, a white middle class woman is at the bottom of the pyramid ....lol ...normally she would be called a Karen, lucky for her she is a lesbian so some would appear to have taken to their hearts at the expense of the black woman they would usually be championing irl...give me strength

oh and and an aside anyone who didnt champion the black woman would be a racist.... mmmm how does that work then

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by GoldHeart

She keeps bringing it up ,which suggests to me she cannot move on . So whether it's tongue in cheek or not , she will probably be printing off t shirts that say ' Red Witch ' with her face plastered on it ,when she actually leaves BB .....she's going to try and make money off this saga .

Tbf, I would recommend her to try and make money off being the Red Witch.

[ebandit]

Originally Posted by Zizu

Just you and me then …

Ali is hated in this forum


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

so ali pretty much made up this 'theory' based upon her own agenda

like making up that ali is hated here............check week 4 favourites voting ali
is still the forums favourite.....................

but also the forums least liked...........by a greater margin?

Mark L

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Cherie

Hilarious isn't it, sometimes I think the social experiment is more about the viewer than the HM, a white middle class woman is at the bottom of the pyramid

It is!

I think that it's less of an experiment on the public than a fact that the leftist idea of the progressive stack intersectional hierarchy of patriarchy bullshit collapses under the lightest of outside scrutiny.

Notice how not one who has agreed with Ali has been able to say WHY she was correct and when asked direct questions have just melted away.

[Zizu]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Notice how not one who has agreed with Ali has been able to say WHY she was correct and when asked direct questions have just melted away.

Interesting claim !!

Presumably you have countless examples of this to share with us ..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[BBXX]

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone but I do think people are getting a bit confused between societal privilege and what Ali was talking about which is societal power and I do think that the power (i.e: the influence) a person holds is far more closely measured by your sex than any other aspect of your upbringing or culture and as a result, I do think sexuality also has an influence in this.

For example, I am a middle class white gay man. In the totem pole of societal privilege I would have certain privileges that I benefit from because I am both a man and white. However, in the totem pole of societal power, I believe I would be ranked below straight men of all classes, nationalities and creeds because society, in general, sees gay men as 'lesser men' and therefore they hold 'less power', despite my whiteness and despite my social class that benefit me in other ways outside of influence. I think society sees gay men the same way they see straight women, and I think society sees gay women as even less powerful and I think that's what Ali would getting at.

Of course people may disagree with my assessment too and I'd be open to being told otherwise because I am sure people have many different experiences that clash with what I have said and so I'd be open to hearing them, as I am calling it from a not-particularly-sheltered-but-still-probably-quite-naive viewpoint.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I hope this post doesn't offend anyone but I do think people are getting a bit confused between societal privilege and what Ali was talking about which is societal power and I do think that the power (i.e: the influence) a person holds is far more closely measured by your sex than any other aspect of your upbringing or culture

For example, I am a middle class white gay man. In the totem pole of societal privilege I would have certain privileges that I benefit from because I am both a man and white.

I see zero evidence of this in 2024 Britain. Can you give examples where white men have more power or influence or privilege in UK society? I mean, the last Tory leader was an Indian man, and the next seems likely to be a black woman.

Originally Posted by BBXX

However, in the totem pole of societal power, I believe I would be ranked below straight men of all classes, nationalities and creeds because society, in general, sees gay men as 'lesser men'

Again, I see zero evidence of this. Indeed, I would say gay men are elevated above straight men in general, especially in the UK media/ Arts (which they more or less run). This is not the world of Quentin Crisp anymore and people need to stop pretending it is.

The truth is that there is no 'totem pole'. A man is not held back by his sexual preference at all in 2024. In fact, in the UK no immutable characteristic is a barrier. I feel people invent the idea that there is out of some kind of need for victimhood. The only thing that matters in the UK is wealth... The wealth to enable opportunity, good connections, and the wealth to buy a good education and nice accent for your children. When you have those nothing else matters.

But what Ali was saying in the house there is a hierarchy of power. She wasn't talking about wider society. She was stating that the lads were above her in that house and that she was on the bottom of a pyramid of patriarchy as the 'plucky freedom fighter', even as she sits on the HoH bed.

I am asking for someone that agrees with her on that to say why that's true and show me where the 3 lads have any more power than her and her little gang.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Crimson Dynamo

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I see zero evidence of this in 2024 Britain. Can you give examples where white men have more power or influence or privilege in UK society? I mean, the last Tory leader was an Indian man, and the next seems likely to be a black woman.

It's a bit like when people say the USA don't haver a race issue because Obama was president. I don't think white men specifically have more power, but I do think white people benefit from wider systemic privileges than most, particularly immigrants for example.

While from a law and rights perspective everyone is equal (quite rightly so) do you really believe everyone in society is seen as equal? Sounds amazing, but also sounds like a fantasy land. There are many people out there that will have issues with specific demographics and that will impact the influence that demographic has.

Again, I see zero evidence of this. Indeed, I would say gay men are elevated above straight men in general, especially in the UK media (which they more or less run). This is not the world of Quentin Crisp anymore and people need to stop pretending it is.

I think it's pretty rude to call someone's experience 'pretending'. Your example are a false equivalence really, a bit like the comment above about having leaders who are not white.

Why have you chosen UK media as your example of where gay men have more power than straight men (I would still question this). Why not the British Army? Why not the Football Association? I myself work in an industry that is 99% male, 99% straight and extremely old fashioned in its viewpoints when it comes to both women and gay men.

While I am not suggesting blatant homophobia is rife in the UK (though there were over 22k cases of LGBT hate crime in 2023/4) I do think it's pretty naive to suggest that someone's sexuality isn't a barrier and people don't make judgements and decisions subliminally.

I feel people invent the idea that there is out of some kind of need for victimhood.

Cool.

But what Ali was saying in the house there is a hierarchy of power. She wasn't talking about wider society. She was stating that the lads were above her in that house and that she was on the bottom of a pyramid of patriarchy as the 'plucky freedom fighter', even as she sits on the HoH bed.

The house is a tiny microcosm of society, of course.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by BBXX

Neither of those were voted into power by the public, of course.

Why does that matter? We are discussing who holds the visible power in the UK.

Originally Posted by BBXX

but I do think white people benefit from wider systemic privileges than most, particularly immigrants for example.

Again, examples? Kemmy Badenoch is an immigrant.

Originally Posted by BBXX

While from a law and rights perspective everyone is equal (quite rightly so) do you really believe everyone in society is seen as equal?

Yes, if they are wealthy, as I stated above.

Wealth and all it enables and brings is the determiner, nothing else.

Originally Posted by BBXX

Why have you chosen UK media as your example of where gay men have more power than straight men

Because the media and arts are key to controlling societal power and have massive influence.

Originally Posted by BBXX

While I am not suggesting blatant homophobia is rife in the UK (though there were over 22k cases of LGBT hate crime in 2023/4) I do think it's pretty naive to suggest that someone's sexuality isn't a barrier and people don't make judgements and decisions subliminally.

Who committed those 'hate crimes' and what were they? Also, I wonder how many would have been recorded against straight white men if that was even allowed. The prejudiced and bigoted **** I hear the LGBT community say about straight white people is beyond wild.

The fact that openly hating on one group is a crime and openly hating on another isn't should clarify things a little for you in itself as to holds the real privilege in the UK in 2024. You can make disparaging comments on my immutable characteristics all day long, but if I wanted (I don't) to do the same to you I would be prosecuted.

Originally Posted by BBXX

The house is a tiny microcosm of society, of course.

No it isn't, many established rules of society are suspended and reorganised in that house. You still haven't shown me where the 3 lads have any more power than Ali and her gang in that house.

Look, can I ask going forward that we stick to the house in this discussion? I wasn't originally talking about wider society, I was only specifically talking about the house and Ali's place in it. I have heard your views and answered them and I think we have heard and understood each other enough to move on.

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Why does that matter? We are discussing who holds the visible power in the UK.

Again, examples? Kemmy Badenoch is an immigrant.

I am speaking generally, there will always be exceptions to the rule. I guess sexism doesn't exist either because Margaret Thatcher was once in charge.

Immigrants and nationals of POC probably felt super powerful and influential earlier this year during the literal riots and random attacks on members of the public who weren't white.

Because the media and arts are key to controlling societal power and have massive influence.

I wouldn't say arts are key to controlling societal power in the slightest and while they have a higher concentration of LGBT people I don't think that means it's "ruled" by particularly but I digress.

Who committed those 'hate crimes' and what were they?

Is that a serious question?

Also, I wonder how many would have been recorded against straight white men if that was even allowed. The prejudiced and bigoted **** I hear the LGBT community say about straight white people is beyond wild.

So you've heard **** said against white straight people it's prejudiced and bigoted, but when you hear from a gay man that sexuality can often be an issue and a barrier it's "victimhood" and "pretending".

If you're willing to accept that white straight people can be victim to prejudicial behaviour, then it stands to reason the same can apply to LGBT+ people and POC and if you don't think that prejudice manifests in decision making that negatively impacts someones success and acts as a barrier, then I am not sure what to say.

And it's with that comment I will end my participation in this conversation.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I am speaking generally, there will always be exceptions to the rule. I guess sexism doesn't exist either because Margaret Thatcher was once in charge.

Sex or gender doesn't matter in the UK and is not a barrier to advancement.

A wealthy well educated well connected woman with a good accent is capable of everything an equivelent man is.

Originally Posted by BBXX

Immigrants and nationals of POC probably felt super powerful and influential earlier this year during the literal riots and random attacks on members of the public who weren't white.

No one on either side of those riots had any real power, nor did those that rioted in Harehills, and what went on is a deep and nuanced conversation where both sides did really **** things. Neither of those riots have anything to do with the point I am making though.

Wealthy people, including wealthy immigrants, don't riot. Wealth, or lack of it, is the continuing key element.

Look, I am sorry that you couldn't just agree to keep it to the house and the HMs and answer the very clear question that I asked. But, ok.

[Gusto Brunt]

Originally Posted by vesavius

I have never heard such bullshit as she was spouting tonight.
...

She's always spouting bs. I've been saying it was over a week. The woman is a complete bore and talks the biggest bollax known to man.

Get ehr out.

[GoldHeart]

When Ali leaves the BB house ,she should set up a company called ' Red witch pyramid scheme ' .

[rusticgal]

Originally Posted by Gusto Brunt

She's always spouting bs. I've been saying it was over a week. The woman is a complete bore and talks the biggest bollax known to man.

Get ehr out.

I could not agree more..

[BBXX]

Originally Posted by vesavius

Look, I am sorry that you couldn't just agree to keep it to the house and the HMs and answer the very clear question that I asked. But, ok.

I didn't actually see you asking me to stick to the house in your reply before this one, so sorry for that. (Maybe you added it while I was replying, as I am sure I didn't see it originally?)

But also, I just shared my feelings generally, I wasn't talking to you specifically so if you didn't like me using real world scenarios to give context to what I thought Ali meant you should have just not replied.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by BBXX

I just shared my feelings generally, I wasn't talking to you specifically so if you didn't like me using real world scenarios to give context to what I thought Ali meant you should have just not replied.

Your real world examples had nothing to do with Ali's actions and def didn't give them 'context', as I explained. It seems to me more that you couldn't answer the very clear question about the house and Ali within it and just waffled on about other stuff in order to shift the conversation.

But, ok dude, whatever