[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

and neither was I

I was giving you an extreme comparable to illustrate how your claim was not correct.

Can you tell me what parts of the New testament or teachings of Jesus that one could use to justify murder?

Muslims and Jews killing each other, Catholics and Protestants killing each other, Christians and Catholics killing each other etc - people of varying religious persuassions killing people of other religious persuassions - that is what I am talking about. History is full of it. It is still occuring in many parts of the world. Religion is supposed to be about peace and valuing human life - instead they kill each other because they disagree. I will never take it seriously. People just use religion to control others!

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

Muslims and Jews killing each other, Catholics and Protestants killing each other, Christians and Catholics killing each other etc - people of varying religious persuassions killing people of other religious persuassions - that is what I am talking about. History is full of it. It is still occuring in many parts of the world. Religion is supposed to be about peace and valuing human life - instead they kill each other because they disagree. I will never take it seriously. People just use religion to control others!

In any gathering of men you will find murder and oppression. Man's violent nature creeps into all gatherings of men under any banner.

It would be more correct to state just how many more lives have been saved by religion over the past centuries, by the teachings of Jesus.

[Crimson Dynamo]

http://net-burst.net/hot/war.htm


As a History Professor at a Junior college I challenge my classes to comment on the following statement:

Organized religion has caused more suffering, wars and violence than any other cause.

Almost all the students raise their hands in agreement. I then demand that they provide dead bodies as evidence. They usually mention the Crusades and one or two other religious wars they might have heard of but in none of their examples can they come up with a million deaths. (Some scholars used to teach that the Thirty Years’ War in Germany resulted in 8 million deaths, but modern scholars have demonstrated it was more like 200 thousand and in fact the population of Germany actually increased during that war.) I then point out that most of the people who have died as a result of war, have done so in the Twentieth Century and that most of the killing was done in the name of secular ideologies. I then ask them who is the “baddest” of them all. Most guess Hitler. I then tell them that he is rated #3. Some then guess Stalin and I inform them that most scholars place him at #2 with 20 million killed. Almost no one gets #1 who, of course, is Mao who starts with an estimated 40 million. I then point out that the top two were Communists and Hitler was a radical proponent of Social Darwinism. All of these ideologies are based on atheistic systems.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

In any gathering of men you will find murder and oppression. Man's violent nature creeps into all gatherings of men under any banner.

It would be more correct to state just how many more lives have been saved by religion over the past centuries, by the teachings of Jesus.

And in the same way you could argue that this was because of good individuals not not down to Jesus

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

And in the same way you could argue that this was because of good individuals not not down to Jesus

you could if they had not done the deeds according to the teachings of Christianity and Jesus and therein lies the crucial difference.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

you could if they had not done the deeds according to the teachings of Christianity and Jesus and therein lies the crucial difference.

So without those teachings they would have been at a complete lose on how to do good things then is it?

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

you could if they had not done the deeds according to the teachings of Christianity and Jesus and therein lies the crucial difference.

A sense of decency and compassion comes from within - and is part of a person's genetic make-up. It cannot be taught - therefore has nothing to do with religion.

[Crimson Dynamo]

Originally Posted by WOMBAI

A sense of decency and compassion comes from within - and is part of a person's genetic make-up. It cannot be taught - therefore has nothing to do with religion.

So how do you explain the death toll from secular wars in the 20th century. if you blame religion for the deaths say from the crusades (small beer in comparison) are we to blame man's genetic make-up for the 20th century and if so then we have a far greater culprit on our hands according to your logic?

[WOMBAI]

Originally Posted by LeatherTrumpet

So how do you explain the death toll from secular wars in the 20th century. if you blame religion for the deaths say from the crusades (small beer in comparison) are we to blame man's genetic make-up for the 20th century and if so then we have a far greater culprit on our hands according to your logic?

Most of the wars/conflicts throughout history have involved religion - which goes against what religion preaches - no small beer about it!