[Shasown]

Originally Posted by setanta

Britain didn't do much to defuse the situation initially. They made all the wrong moves, all the time.

Plus they wouldn't have listened to the Nationalists if they weren't willing to highlight what they were capable of, you know?

On the first line I am in almost total agreement with you on that.

On the second, they did listen to the Nationalists, but because of Stormont being in existance at the time, the actual British Government's hands were tied, thats what most people dont get. Northern Ireland at the time technically was a dominion, it was to all intents and purposes self ruling.

There wasnt really a lot they could do. It would completely undermine the National Assembly and in some cases it would have been an internationally illegal act to interfere directly.

Consequently, they had to find occassion to find fault with the actions of Stormont in order to dissolve it. Certain Nationalist groups werent prepared to wait, certain unionist factions werent going to listen anyways.

Then when action could be taken we were well embroiled in the Troubles. in the early to mid 70's power was going to devolve back to stormont under the sunningdale but comments were made in Dublin that upset the unionists and they prevented it. McGuinness and others were in negotiations with Whitelaw.

Then mid to late 70's there were negotiations going on while there was civil war basically. Late 70's maggie wanted cessation of terrorist activities and disarmament on both sides.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by Shasown

On the first line I am in almost total agreement with you on that.

On the second, they did listen to the Nationalists, but because of Stormont being in existance at the time, the actual British Government's hands were tied, thats what most people dont get. Northern Ireland at the time technically was a dominion, it was to all intents and purposes self ruling.

There wasnt really a lot they could do. It would completely undermine the National Assembly and in some cases it would have been an internationally illegal act to interfere directly.

Consequently, they had to find occassion to find fault with the actions of Stormont in order to dissolve it. Certain Nationalist groups werent prepared to wait, certain unionist factions werent going to listen anyways.

But they disolved it for awhile and took total control of the area, right? And they didn't cover themselves in glory furing that period either. Look, it was a horrible situation but they didn't deal with as best they could really.

And Maggie was just plain silly in what she did.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by setanta

But they disolved it for awhile and took total control of the area, right? And they didn't cover themselves in glory furing that period either. Look, it was a horrible situation but they didn't deal with as best they could really.

And Maggie was just plain silly in what she did.

I am not denying it, major mistakes, that in the end cost lives, were made on all sides.

Do you honestly think there isnt a politican involved in the whole episode who doesnt look back and think, if only.... That includes maggie head up her arse thatcher, If Wilson had dissolved the national assembly in 1969, just after allowing the troops to enter Derry, he may have took some flak for it, but on the other hand there may not have followed the twenty odd years of carnage that did happen.

If the Paras hadnt been sent to the province, if another less aggressive unit had gone, If the Paras had been rotated back off the line in 1972, and a proper inquiry set up, instead of the Widgery fiasco, the whole sequence of events investigated and proper criticism and charges levelled at all those responsible......

We will never really know how different it could have been.

[setanta]

Originally Posted by Shasown

I am not denying it, major mistakes, that in the end cost lives, were made on all sides.

Do you honestly think there isnt a politican involved in the whole episode who doesnt look back and think, if only.... That includes maggie head up her arse thatcher, If Wilson had dissolved the national assembly in 1969, just after allowing the troops to enter Derry, he may have took some flak for it, but on the other hand there may not have followed the twenty odd years of carnage that did happen.

If the Paras hadnt been sent to the province, if another less aggressive unit had gone, If the Paras had been rotated back off the line in 1972, and a proper inquiry set up, instead of the Widgery fiasco, the whole sequence of events investigated and proper criticism and charges levelled at all those responsible......

We will never really know how different it could have been.

It's messy stuff, that's for sure, but sometimes aggression is the only thing that an oppressed minority can use at a certain point to make a stand, you know? I don't know how I would have responded to seeing that Civil Rights group being battered about the place if I had been watching at the time.