[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Ben is an idiot as well though and I do think that JJ has a point, JJs problem is that he has very valid points usually but he's not the best for expressing them. He goes too far which in turn invalidates, the originally valid point, If you catch my drift!

I mean he is right, Ben is lazy and selfish, he isn't a team player. Yes everyone is an individual but not pulling your weight in a group situation is not a good trait to have.

The problem with Ben vs JJ is two fold I think.

1) I think that its a case of JJ basing his views on morales, honesty, and mutual dependance, and Ben basing his on manipulation, lies, and selfishness. They are polar opposites in how they see themselves in society and have very different empathy levels for those around them. The problem is though that it's JJ's view that is increasingly unfashionable in Western culture, while the selfish lazy me me view of Ben is growing (mainly because it's the easy don't give a crap option), so Ben is seen as right often in the eyes of many.

2) JJ obviously has problems expressing himself, and is obviously less intelligent then Ben, so it is easy for Ben to maintain the high ground of remaining calm, which many see as an automatic 'win'. Many of JJs points are based on decency and friendship, and he emotionally cares deeply about them, but he loses debates with Ben because he stays calm as he just has no emotional investment in the argument because he dosent give a **** about those things.

Everything Ben does is a cold intellectual excercise, everything JJ does comes from the heart.