[starry]

Originally Posted by Zippy

A classic case of somebody oblivious to their own faults whilst daring to judge others.

That's what Ben does as well though (saying others talk about themselves, or don't let others speak), projecting his own faults onto others. I find them both annoying.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by starry

That's what Ben does as well though (saying others talk about themselves, or don't let others speak), projecting his own faults onto others. I find them both annoying.

[Jords]

Ben was a right legend last night.

[ange7]

Originally Posted by Locke.

John: "There aren't people like you anymore... That stopped years ago"
Ben: "I brought people like me back."

John: "People can't see things the way you do.. how can you say you don't care about teamwork and have friends?"
Ben: "Because we accept each other as being individuals. Just accept that people are different John."

oh! I laughed and laughed! Killer!

[ange7]

Originally Posted by Locke.

John: "You're talking complete ****. Corin isn't listening to what you're saying."

Ben: "What are you talking about, this is just between us"

John: "You're just talking ****"

Ben: "You're not invited anyway, you won't go anywhere where they don't speak English."

oh!! . he totally showed him huh!?
keep em coming ... your a riot Ben!

[ange7]

are you mental?

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

Ben is an idiot as well though and I do think that JJ has a point, JJs problem is that he has very valid points usually but he's not the best for expressing them. He goes too far which in turn invalidates, the originally valid point, If you catch my drift!

I mean he is right, Ben is lazy and selfish, he isn't a team player. Yes everyone is an individual but not pulling your weight in a group situation is not a good trait to have.

The problem with Ben vs JJ is two fold I think.

1) I think that its a case of JJ basing his views on morales, honesty, and mutual dependance, and Ben basing his on manipulation, lies, and selfishness. They are polar opposites in how they see themselves in society and have very different empathy levels for those around them. The problem is though that it's JJ's view that is increasingly unfashionable in Western culture, while the selfish lazy me me view of Ben is growing (mainly because it's the easy don't give a crap option), so Ben is seen as right often in the eyes of many.

2) JJ obviously has problems expressing himself, and is obviously less intelligent then Ben, so it is easy for Ben to maintain the high ground of remaining calm, which many see as an automatic 'win'. Many of JJs points are based on decency and friendship, and he emotionally cares deeply about them, but he loses debates with Ben because he stays calm as he just has no emotional investment in the argument because he dosent give a **** about those things.

Everything Ben does is a cold intellectual excercise, everything JJ does comes from the heart.

[xzlr8]

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Locke.

John: "You're talking complete ****. Corin isn't listening to what you're saying."

Ben: "What are you talking about, this is just between us"

John: "You're just talking ****"

Ben: "You're not invited anyway, you won't go anywhere where they don't speak English."

I have always said Ben is an entertaining HM, even if I dont like him as a person at all, but I didnt find this funny at all.

It just came across as dismissive, sneering and nasty to me... as Ben so often is.

[ange7]

Originally Posted by vesavius

The problem with Ben vs JJ is two fold I think.

1) I think that its a case of JJ basing his views on morales, honesty, and mutual dependance, and Ben basing his on manipulation, lies, and selfishness. They are polar opposites in how they see themselves in society and have very different empathy levels for those around them. The problem is though that it's JJ's view that is increasingly unfashionable in Western culture, while the selfish lazy me me view of Ben is growing (mainly because it's the easy don't give a crap option), so Ben is seen as right often in the eyes of many.

2) JJ obviously has problems expressing himself, and is obviously less intelligent then Ben, so it is easy for Ben to maintain the high ground of remaining calm, which many see as an automatic 'win'. Many of JJs points are based on decency and friendship, and he emotionally cares deeply about them, but he loses debates with Ben because he stays calm as he just has no emotional investment in the argument because he dosent give a **** about those things.

Everything Ben does is a cold intellectual excercise, everything JJ does comes from the heart.

And Josie always takes anyone's side but her "mate" JJ. She loves rubbishing and mocking him publicly but one on one she shows a different face.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by ange7

And Josie always takes anyone's side but her "mate" JJ. She loves rubbishing and mocking him publicly but one on one she shows a different face.

this thread wasnt about Josie. make another one and I will be glad to talk about your point.

[ange7]

Originally Posted by vesavius

this thread wasnt about Josie. make another one and I will be glad to talk about your point.

mahahahaha
thought not :P

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by ange7

mahahahaha
thought not :P

Please stop trying to derail the thread?

I have already said I will discuss this with you if you make a new one about it.

[ange7]

ok ned flanders

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by ange7

ok ned flanders

I have no idea what you are trying to win here.

I'll leave it now, and let you have the inevitable last snipe in your imaginary war.

[Kazanne]

I think with Ben what you see is what you get please or offend,like or hate,With JJ I think his caring for his fellow human beings is false and a front to persuade people he is a 'nice'guy,In real life I would think he is very aggresive,uncaring and attention seeking,the only thing I see he has going for him is his looks,but looks are not enough for some of us,so I think JJs persona is false.With Ben he really doesn't care if people like him or not and he doesn't try to make them.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by vesavius

The problem with Ben vs JJ is two fold I think.

1) I think that its a case of JJ basing his views on morales, honesty, and mutual dependance, and Ben basing his on manipulation, lies, and selfishness. They are polar opposites in how they see themselves in society and have very different empathy levels for those around them. The problem is though that it's JJ's view that is increasingly unfashionable in Western culture, while the selfish lazy me me view of Ben is growing (mainly because it's the easy don't give a crap option), so Ben is seen as right often in the eyes of many.

2) JJ obviously has problems expressing himself, and is obviously less intelligent then Ben, so it is easy for Ben to maintain the high ground of remaining calm, which many see as an automatic 'win'. Many of JJs points are based on decency and friendship, and he emotionally cares deeply about them, but he loses debates with Ben because he stays calm as he just has no emotional investment in the argument because he dosent give a **** about those things.

Everything Ben does is a cold intellectual excercise, everything JJ does comes from the heart.

Yeah, I agree completely, great post btw

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kazanne

I think with Ben what you see is what you get please or offend,like or hate,With JJ I think his caring for his fellow human beings is false and a front to persuade people he is a 'nice'guy,In real life I would think he is very aggresive,uncaring and attention seeking,the only thing I see he has going for him is his looks,but looks are not enough for some of us,so I think JJs persona is false.With Ben he really doesn't care if people like him or not and he doesn't try to make them.

so it's ok for him to be a selfish prick cos atleast he's not false about it? ew.

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

so it's ok for him to be a selfish prick cos atleast he's not false about it? ew.

I am entitalled to my opinion and that is it,and in a word ,Yes.(all said without using expletives)anyone who is false cannot be trusted,MY opinion,ok.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by kazanne

I am entitalled to my opinion and that is it,and in a word ,Yes.(all said without using expletives)anyone who is false cannot be trusted,MY opinion,ok.

I was referring to your opinion on Ben not JJ. You think JJ is false fair enough ( I don't but yes you are entitled to your opinion on it) But what I was commenting on was that you think it's ok for him to be selfish and not care about other people as long as he's not being false about it.

[ange7]

"With Ben he really doesn't care if people like him or not and he doesn't try to make them"
Nah I think that's wrong. He lied about what his task was. He said BB asked him to take Shabby's something or other. He lied because he feared the housemates reaction ... he does care what they think. Being shallow to the point a disability means he is all about appearances but is without substance, morals or even a backbone.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ange7

"With Ben he really doesn't care if people like him or not and he doesn't try to make them"
Nah I think that's wrong. He lied about what his task was. He said BB asked him to take Shabby's something or other. He lied because he feared the housemates reaction ... he does care what they think. Being shallow to the point a disability means he is all about appearances but is without substance, morals or even a backbone.

yeah plus everytime he pisses someone off, the first thing he does is ask other people to back him

[ange7]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

yeah plus everytime he pisses someone off, the first thing he does is ask other people to back him

lol and then votes for them hehe eg SS

[Kazanne]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

I was referring to your opinion on Ben not JJ. You think JJ is false fair enough ( I don't but yes you are entitled to your opinion on it) But what I was commenting on was that you think it's ok for him to be selfish and not care about other people as long as he's not being false about it.

He does care about other people though,I think he should have done the punishment,but it was also good entertainment to see him buck the trend,it's not as though anything was a matter of life or death,BB would never see them truly suffer,Ben knows that and BB is not all about tasks it's about entertainment and imo he has provided that,and although people think he is selfish and uncaring,I would imagine he is a good friend on the outside,don't forget NONE of these people can be really friends yet.It is so nice how he forgives the very people who are trying to bring him down all the time a lesser man would have kicked off at them long before now,so I am sorry if people think my opinion is wrong,but I really like him and have seen nothing to change my mind,yet.As an aside I really did not like him on his arrival.

[vesavius]

Originally Posted by Niamhxo

so it's ok for him to be a selfish prick cos atleast he's not false about it? ew.

The thing, I think, is that the entrenched Ben supporter probably dosent even really think this... and probably were not saying it a while back.

Ben though has, repeatedly, demonstrated his true nature and the fanboi can't explain it away or condone it so they have come up with the 'he's a pr1ck but he is an honest pr1ck' defense stance.

They can no longer defend him morally or as the 'humble sweet honest' guy they used to, yet neither can they admit any flaws on his part because they percieve to do so would be weakness in the face of their 'enemies'.

So we now see this kind of weak defense because it is the only one they really have left :/