[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Jack_

For once I agree with you on something - the press and comments across various websites etc she is receiving is bordering on bullying, IMO. Some of the bile spouted has been absolutely disgusting. And I fail to understand what there is to hate about her? She's not murdered anyone, she's not committed any crimes - she's just ambitious. What's to hate about that? Some people are acting like she's a serial killer - it's pathetic.

I agree with Dezzy when it comes to the tabloids though, and I cannot believe masses off people lap it up. It baffles me how many gullible fools there are that will just believe anything they read and then pass on these stories to other fools, in turn making more and more people believe them. I just find it so...odd, how can people be so stupid?

Katie has a decent voice, not the strongest, but a nice tone. More importantly she has stage presence and personality, which as someone else said is more than can be said for a lot of the other contestants. And she also has the right image. She has the 'X Factor' - some people seem to mistake this as being purely a singing competition. It's not.

So I'm not sure what it is - either people don't like ambition, they're jealous, or they're just simply lapping up what they read in the papers. Whatever it is - they need to find something else to do, quite frankly.

Well I've never made a comment re Katie's appearance before, but I wouldn't consider her to be particularly pretty. She's a bit masculine. A cursory glance across to board shows much more personal and derogatory comments about Rebecca's appearance, to be honest - perhaps because she's vocally so strong. As to katie's voice, I think it's very, very weak. It's husky, but so's my nan's. In relation to the tabloids, I don't read them, so I've no idea what they're saying about her, other than that I read on here that she claimed a relationship with Matt that he subsequently denied. That wouldn't impact on my opinion either way. The over-acting and dramatics I find embarrassing. There's nothing at all wrong with ambition, but the sense of entitlement, narcissism and arrogance that both Katie and Cher give off are, frankly, funny, given that they are, for me, the two weakest, most contrived and derivative acts in the competition.
It's hilarious when anyone brands someone a fool or stupid or gullible for not liking someone. It's an opinion. This is an opinion forum.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I just do not like her voice, I dislike all the over the top dramatics, such as collapsing on stage too.

That may not be a 'good enough' reason for you, but thats my opinion.

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Well I've never made a comment re Katie's appearance before, but I wouldn't consider her to be particularly pretty. She's a bit masculine. A cursory glance across to board shows much more personal and derogatory comments about Rebecca's appearance, to be honest - perhaps because she's vocally so strong. As to katie's voice, I think it's very, very weak. It's husky, but so's my nan's. In relation to the tabloids, I don't read them, so I've no idea what they're saying about her, other than that I read on here that she claimed a relationship with Matt that he subsequently denied. That wouldn't impact on my opinion either way. The over-acting and dramatics I find embarrassing. There's nothing at all wrong with ambition, but the sense of entitlement, narcissism and arrogance that both Katie and Cher give off are, frankly, funny, given that they are, for me, the two weakest, most contrived and derivative acts in the competition.
It's hilarious when anyone brands someone a fool or stupid or gullible for not liking someone. It's an opinion. This is an opinion forum.

Quoted both of you at the same time regarding the same point - what 'dramatics'? I personally believe that's just her 'quirkyness'.

Especially regarding the 'falling on the floor' incident - has the thought crossed anyones mind, that, you know...she's just...had enough of all of the hate? Like I said, it's bordering on or practically the equivalent of bullying. I expect by that point she thought she was going home [like most people, including myself], knew people weren't going to change their [misguided] opinions of her - and so just thought aloud and said 'sod it'. Seems fair enough to me, afterall, some of the stuff that has been written about her is not only unfair, but it's disgusting.

And I don't think she's 'arrogant' either - why does having self-belief and confidence make someone arrogant? She'd be arrogant if she said 'I'm the best here, I'm the Queen of the world, I am so amazing, everyone should bow down to me' etc etc etc - but she hasn't. So why is she arrogant?

And to pastylimerick - I called the people who lap up the stories in the press 'gullible fools'.

[patsylimerick]

Re the tabloids, Jack, fair enough. But on the dramatics, she was like this from the very first audition, and never more so than when she batting the false icicles in the judge's house and seemed, to me, to be completely over dramatising the situation. To be honest, I didn't so much mind the 'sod it'. It was the first time I kinda smiled in a nice way in response to her. Still think she's a drama queen of the highest order, though. I think her image is way, way too try hard and her voice is very weak.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

Quoted both of you at the same time regarding the same point - what 'dramatics'? I personally believe that's just her 'quirkyness'.

Especially regarding the 'falling on the floor' incident - has the thought crossed anyones mind, that, you know...she's just...had enough of all of the hate? Like I said, it's bordering on or practically the equivalent of bullying. I expect by that point she thought she was going home [like most people, including myself], knew people weren't going to change their [misguided] opinions of her - and so just thought aloud and said 'sod it'. Seems fair enough to me, afterall, some of the stuff that has been written about her is not only unfair, but it's disgusting.

It is my opinion that it is over the top dramatics, nothing more, and I find it pathetic.

Is that ok with you?

I think its about time you realised that not everyone thinks the same as you, or will support the same people as you do, for various reasons. Noones opinion is wrong, and noones is right, its an OPINION. It doesnt have to be explained.

The world would be a pretty boring place if everyone was the same.

[nanaimo]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It is my opinion that it is over the top dramatics, nothing more, and I find it pathetic.

Is that ok with you?

I think its about time you realised that not everyone thinks the same as you, or will support the same people as you do, for various reasons. Noones opinion is wrong, and noones is right, its an OPINION. It doesnt have to be explained.

The world would be a pretty boring place if everyone was the same.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It is my opinion that it is over the top dramatics, nothing more, and I find it pathetic.

Is that ok with you?

I think its about time you realised that not everyone thinks the same as you, or will support the same people as you do, for various reasons. Noones opinion is wrong, and noones is right, its an OPINION. It doesnt have to be explained.

The world would be a pretty boring place if everyone was the same.

I know it would - and it would also be a pretty boring place if debate didn't exist and people weren't allowed to challenge other people's opinions. That is essentially what a forum is for, right? And that's all I'm doing - challenging yours [and other people's] opinions regarding Katie, questioning why you dislike her, and then challenging those answers. What's the point in having this forum if we can't do that and we have to sit back and just state our opinions and then leave?

I never said people aren't entitled to their opinions, of course they are - but I, along with everyone else, am entitled to question those opinions, along with the validity and coherence of those opinions - amongst other things. Justifying [or 'explaining'] your opinion is part of debate - if someone isn't willing to justify their opinion, either they shouldn't be on a debate forum or their 'opinion' or 'argument' isn't strong enough.

I have had my opinions regarding favourites questioned before - and I have happily justified my reasoning and debated with them. The same applies to me when questioning other people's opinions - it's nothing to do with 'realising everyone doesn't think the same as me'.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I know it would - and it would also be a pretty boring place if debate didn't exist and people weren't allowed to challenge other people's opinions. That is essentially what a forum is for, right? And that's all I'm doing - challenging yours [and other people's] opinions regarding Katie, questioning why you dislike her, and then challenging those answers. What's the point in having this forum if we can't do that and we have to sit back and just state our opinions and then leave?

I never said people aren't entitled to their opinions, of course they are - but I, along with everyone else, am entitled to question those opinions, along with the validity and coherence of those opinions - amongst other things. Justifying [or 'explaining'] your opinion is part of debate - if someone isn't willing to justify their opinion, either they shouldn't be on a debate forum or their 'opinion' or 'argument' isn't strong enough.

I have had my opinions regarding favourites questioned before - and I have happily justified my reasoning and debated with them. The same applies to me when questioning other people's opinions - it's nothing to do with 'realising everyone doesn't think the same as me'.

But you dont challenge peoples opinions. You try to make out as if they are just total bollocks. Especially since this x factor started. I noticed it during BB, but it has got worse recently.

Saying things like you are yet to see 'a valid reason' for disliking her and stuff like that. Why does one need their opinion validated by you?

I have already replied with my reasoning for disliking her, and you are just trying to rubbish everyone elses opinions, either by accusing them or being jealous...or being sheep who believe everything they read in the papers. You seem incapable of understanding the fact that people do dislike her for other reasons apart from what you have drummed into your head.

or their 'opinion' or 'argument' isn't strong enough.

And this part is just totally laughable

I dislike her because I dont like her voice, and I believe she is an attention seeker, and quite pathetic. I find this to be a valid enough reason. Yet you are still trying to make out as if it isnt.

Go try and patronize someone else, doesnt work with me

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

But you dont challenge peoples opinions. You try to make out as if they are just total bollocks. Especially since this x factor started. I noticed it during BB, but it has got worse recently.

Only when I believe they are 'total bollocks', yes...otherwise, no...

Examples of this are people that evidently lap up things they read in the tabloids, or when people supported dull housemates during BB which in turn ruined the show, when they are supposed to be 'fans'. I will happily admit when I think people's opinions are 'total bollocks', infact I would state it in the post - but due to the rules there's no point in me getting an infraction.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Saying things like you are yet to see 'a valid reason' for disliking her and stuff like that. Why does one need their opinion validated by you?

Originally Posted by Vicky.

And this part is just totally laughable

I dislike her because I dont like her voice, and I believe she is an attention seeker, and quite pathetic. I find this to be a valid enough reason. Yet you are still trying to make out as if it isnt.

I never said 'by me' - by anyone. An example of an invalid reason would be to the people that didn't like it when she said 'sod it' on Sunday night - at the end of the day she's been on the receiving end of a lot of hatred, so I don't blame her for essentially 'giving up'. I can't see how that is being dramatic at all [she can be a drama queen at times, that much I will admit - but it's part of the reason why I believe she has personality]. A valid opinion is that you don't like her voice - fair enough, that's your opinion - I accept that. I like it. You and others don't. Fair enough. The only point I've disputed is that she has the personality, image and stage presence to back it up.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I have already replied with my reasoning for disliking her, and you are just trying to rubbish everyone elses opinions, either by accusing them or being jealous...or being sheep who believe everything they read in the papers. You seem incapable of understanding the fact that people do dislike her for other reasons apart from what you have drummed into your head.

No - I accept that people don't like her voice, but I keep reiterating this is not just a singing competition. And she has stage presence and personality. That part [especially stage presence] I don't believe can be an opinion - you either have it or you don't. I can't stand Elvis' music, but there is no denying he had stage presence.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Go try and patronize someone else, doesnt work with me

I'm not patronising you? Where have you felt I 'patronised you'?

Wasn't my intention either way...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I'm not patronising you? Where have you felt I 'patronised you'?

Wasn't my intention either way...

I didnt mean me specifically. But I am included in the collective. Since you seem to reckon that the majority of people who dislike her, dislike her because they lap up all the tabloid bull.

I think you really need to give people more credit. Obviously SOME will be swayed by the tabloids, but I doubt it is anywhere near as many as you seem to believe. Most people vote based on how the act is on the night...nothing to do with papers.