[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

It is my opinion that it is over the top dramatics, nothing more, and I find it pathetic.

Is that ok with you?

I think its about time you realised that not everyone thinks the same as you, or will support the same people as you do, for various reasons. Noones opinion is wrong, and noones is right, its an OPINION. It doesnt have to be explained.

The world would be a pretty boring place if everyone was the same.

I know it would - and it would also be a pretty boring place if debate didn't exist and people weren't allowed to challenge other people's opinions. That is essentially what a forum is for, right? And that's all I'm doing - challenging yours [and other people's] opinions regarding Katie, questioning why you dislike her, and then challenging those answers. What's the point in having this forum if we can't do that and we have to sit back and just state our opinions and then leave?

I never said people aren't entitled to their opinions, of course they are - but I, along with everyone else, am entitled to question those opinions, along with the validity and coherence of those opinions - amongst other things. Justifying [or 'explaining'] your opinion is part of debate - if someone isn't willing to justify their opinion, either they shouldn't be on a debate forum or their 'opinion' or 'argument' isn't strong enough.

I have had my opinions regarding favourites questioned before - and I have happily justified my reasoning and debated with them. The same applies to me when questioning other people's opinions - it's nothing to do with 'realising everyone doesn't think the same as me'.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I know it would - and it would also be a pretty boring place if debate didn't exist and people weren't allowed to challenge other people's opinions. That is essentially what a forum is for, right? And that's all I'm doing - challenging yours [and other people's] opinions regarding Katie, questioning why you dislike her, and then challenging those answers. What's the point in having this forum if we can't do that and we have to sit back and just state our opinions and then leave?

I never said people aren't entitled to their opinions, of course they are - but I, along with everyone else, am entitled to question those opinions, along with the validity and coherence of those opinions - amongst other things. Justifying [or 'explaining'] your opinion is part of debate - if someone isn't willing to justify their opinion, either they shouldn't be on a debate forum or their 'opinion' or 'argument' isn't strong enough.

I have had my opinions regarding favourites questioned before - and I have happily justified my reasoning and debated with them. The same applies to me when questioning other people's opinions - it's nothing to do with 'realising everyone doesn't think the same as me'.

But you dont challenge peoples opinions. You try to make out as if they are just total bollocks. Especially since this x factor started. I noticed it during BB, but it has got worse recently.

Saying things like you are yet to see 'a valid reason' for disliking her and stuff like that. Why does one need their opinion validated by you?

I have already replied with my reasoning for disliking her, and you are just trying to rubbish everyone elses opinions, either by accusing them or being jealous...or being sheep who believe everything they read in the papers. You seem incapable of understanding the fact that people do dislike her for other reasons apart from what you have drummed into your head.

or their 'opinion' or 'argument' isn't strong enough.

And this part is just totally laughable

I dislike her because I dont like her voice, and I believe she is an attention seeker, and quite pathetic. I find this to be a valid enough reason. Yet you are still trying to make out as if it isnt.

Go try and patronize someone else, doesnt work with me

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

But you dont challenge peoples opinions. You try to make out as if they are just total bollocks. Especially since this x factor started. I noticed it during BB, but it has got worse recently.

Only when I believe they are 'total bollocks', yes...otherwise, no...

Examples of this are people that evidently lap up things they read in the tabloids, or when people supported dull housemates during BB which in turn ruined the show, when they are supposed to be 'fans'. I will happily admit when I think people's opinions are 'total bollocks', infact I would state it in the post - but due to the rules there's no point in me getting an infraction.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Saying things like you are yet to see 'a valid reason' for disliking her and stuff like that. Why does one need their opinion validated by you?

Originally Posted by Vicky.

And this part is just totally laughable

I dislike her because I dont like her voice, and I believe she is an attention seeker, and quite pathetic. I find this to be a valid enough reason. Yet you are still trying to make out as if it isnt.

I never said 'by me' - by anyone. An example of an invalid reason would be to the people that didn't like it when she said 'sod it' on Sunday night - at the end of the day she's been on the receiving end of a lot of hatred, so I don't blame her for essentially 'giving up'. I can't see how that is being dramatic at all [she can be a drama queen at times, that much I will admit - but it's part of the reason why I believe she has personality]. A valid opinion is that you don't like her voice - fair enough, that's your opinion - I accept that. I like it. You and others don't. Fair enough. The only point I've disputed is that she has the personality, image and stage presence to back it up.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I have already replied with my reasoning for disliking her, and you are just trying to rubbish everyone elses opinions, either by accusing them or being jealous...or being sheep who believe everything they read in the papers. You seem incapable of understanding the fact that people do dislike her for other reasons apart from what you have drummed into your head.

No - I accept that people don't like her voice, but I keep reiterating this is not just a singing competition. And she has stage presence and personality. That part [especially stage presence] I don't believe can be an opinion - you either have it or you don't. I can't stand Elvis' music, but there is no denying he had stage presence.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Go try and patronize someone else, doesnt work with me

I'm not patronising you? Where have you felt I 'patronised you'?

Wasn't my intention either way...

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Jack_

I'm not patronising you? Where have you felt I 'patronised you'?

Wasn't my intention either way...

I didnt mean me specifically. But I am included in the collective. Since you seem to reckon that the majority of people who dislike her, dislike her because they lap up all the tabloid bull.

I think you really need to give people more credit. Obviously SOME will be swayed by the tabloids, but I doubt it is anywhere near as many as you seem to believe. Most people vote based on how the act is on the night...nothing to do with papers.

[Jack_]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I didnt mean me specifically. But I am included in the collective. Since you seem to reckon that the majority of people who dislike her, dislike her because they lap up all the tabloid bull.

I think you really need to give people more credit. Obviously SOME will be swayed by the tabloids, but I doubt it is anywhere near as many as you seem to believe. Most people vote based on how the act is on the night...nothing to do with papers.

I genuinely believe that a lot of people are swayed and hindered by the tabloids. It is, afterall, the media/tabloids that escalated 'Sachsgate' completely out of control, making more people complain for no reason - most of whom who hadn't even listened to the audio, just thought they'd jump on the bandwagon and complain because everyone else was. That's just one example of the sort of effect the media/papers have.

I'm not saying everyone is, just a lot. And to those that genuinely aren't swayed by the tabloids, all I'm interested in is to why people don't like her and spout bile [or believe she deserves it] at her all the time. That's all.

[Mystic Mock]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I didnt mean me specifically. But I am included in the collective. Since you seem to reckon that the majority of people who dislike her, dislike her because they lap up all the tabloid bull.

I think you really need to give people more credit. Obviously SOME will be swayed by the tabloids, but I doubt it is anywhere near as many as you seem to believe. Most people vote based on how the act is on the night...nothing to do with papers.

i agree with this as i dont read the papers,i can just tell that shes annoying on the live show.