[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Baby Zeesus

I don't even know where to begin...

Nah me neither..

300 years ago perhaps, but I can't be arsed to be honest. It's too late and cold!

[ILoveTRW]

I was once asked by an Irish man after telling him I was from manchester [Thick drunk Irish accent]"How did you like the bomb in Manchester?"[/accent]
I replied "yeah it was well good, we got a new Next!"
that shut the ****er up lol

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by ILoveTRW

England is the only country that can support itself. Scotland are just scroungers who are claiming independence half the time and then are begging england for billions.
Ireland is what any of the 3 countries will turn into with out England.

You have warped views, you know **** all about Ireland from what I've read here and in the past, stop being so Ignorant when talking about a country and have some common courtesy when you type.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by ILoveTRW

I was once asked by an Irish man after telling him I was from manchester [Thick drunk Irish accent]"How did you like the bomb in Manchester?"[/accent]
I replied "yeah it was well good, we got a new Next!"
that shut the ****er up lol

Thats got bugger all to do with the topic of this thread!

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by ILoveTRW

I was once asked by an Irish man after telling him I was from manchester [Thick drunk Irish accent]"How did you like the bomb in Manchester?"[/accent]
I replied "yeah it was well good, we got a new Next!"
that shut the ****er up lol

so your point is what exactly? I don't get it. You hate Irish people

[keithafc]

Originally Posted by Grimnir

If it was upto me I would make Scotland and Wales totally separate countries but still part of the commonwealth similar to Australia etc

For Ireland Id say ****** it let em have it N Ireland is pointless country anyway

How is Northern Ireland a pointless country? Ulster is a wonderful place.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by ILoveTRW

I was once asked by an Irish man after telling him I was from manchester [Thick drunk Irish accent]"How did you like the bomb in Manchester?"[/accent]
I replied "yeah it was well good, we got a new Next!"
that shut the ****er up lol

Um, You Weren't.

....That was from a Jason Manford Gig.

[Lee.]

Originally Posted by Dasher

Um, You Weren't.

....That was from a Jason Manford Gig.

Lol, pmsl & lmao!!

[ILoveTRW]

Originally Posted by Dasher

Um, You Weren't.

....That was from a Jason Manford Gig.

lol
Glad someone has a good sense of humour here

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by ILoveTRW

lol
Glad someone has a good sense of humour here

I dont think he was agreeing with you, more showing you up.

[MTVN]

He's just trying to take the piss tbh I think

[ILoveTRW]

Originally Posted by Snowman

I dont think he was agreeing with you, more showing you up.

I know he was, but i was congratulating patrick for being the only one to realise.

[ILoveTRW]

Originally Posted by MTVN

He's just trying to take the piss tbh I think

[Iceman]

Originally Posted by ILoveTRW

I know he was, but i was congratulating patrick for being the only one to realise.

Realise what that you've made a load of stupid statements, not backed them up with anything, ignored everyone who replied to you and then told a joke.......well you get a golden star for that.

[Z]

Originally Posted by Tom

N. Ireland and Scotland might have their own parliaments but they're ultimately ruled by England. Is there any point, other than historical reasons, to keep it as 4 separate countries instead of just integrating it all into one and downgrading England/Wales/Scotland/Northern Ireland to regions?

I think the main problem I have with your post, and the reason why N.I., Scotland and Wales are so vehemently opposed to an entirely united UK is when you say "but they're ultimately ruled by England." It's ignorant and big headed to say something like that, which is why so many people from the other three nations actively dislike the English. :/

[ILoveTRW]

Originally Posted by Snowman

Realise what that you've made a load of stupid statements, not backed them up with anything, ignored everyone who replied to you and then told a joke.......well you get a golden star for that.

Tbh nobody has made any intelligent replies to any of my post as of yet.
What do you want be to back up?
The fact that Scotland is dependent on England or that Irelands economy is a bigger mess than Alex Salmond's face?
Because I'm sure I can find more than a few articles.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Baby Zeesus

I think the main problem I have with your post, and the reason why N.I., Scotland and Wales are so vehemently opposed to an entirely united UK is when you say "but they're ultimately ruled by England." It's ignorant and big headed to say something like that, which is why so many people from the other three nations actively dislike the English. :/

I think that's a bit unfair tbh. A lot of English resent the fact that the three other nations all have some form of control over issues in their respective country, free from Westminster involvement when we dont have that. A lot of Scots were unhappy with English MP's being the predominant opinion on matters which mainly affect just Scotland, and so were granted the luxury of deciding those issues for themselves; we have no such luxury in England.

[Z]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I think that's a bit unfair tbh. A lot of English resent the fact that the three other nations all have some form of control over issues in their respective country, free from Westminster involvement when we dont have that. A lot of Scots were unhappy with English MP's being the predominant opinion on matters which mainly affect just Scotland, and so were granted the luxury of deciding those issues for themselves; we have no such luxury in England.

Tom's original post was worded in a way that I think highlights one of the reasons why people generally dislike the idea of a United Kingdom in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland though - that arrogant assumption that England is this weary benefactor of three 'scrounging' nations... On the contrary, we have all been trying to establish ourselves as independent nations who are not reliant on the English to sustain ourselves. That's the point that it comes down to though - in Westminster, the three smaller nations do not get as much of a say yet were affected by nationwide decisions; now that there's been some form of devolution in all three (either through the assemblies or parliament in Scotland's case) that issue isn't as prominent. Therefore the reason the English don't have a separate Parliament, it seems to me, is because by creating one, it signals the end of the United Kingdom as such, and promotes the idea of four separate nations under one banner, and would probably lead to the dissolution of the UK.

Basically I see the lack of an English Parliament as the glue holding the UK together.

[Patrick]

Originally Posted by MTVN

I think that's a bit unfair tbh. A lot of English resent the fact that the three other nations all have some form of control over issues in their respective country, free from Westminster involvement when we dont have that. A lot of Scots were unhappy with English MP's being the predominant opinion on matters which mainly affect just Scotland, and so were granted the luxury of deciding those issues for themselves; we have no such luxury in England.

That's kind of petty and stupid to be honest, if you think of everything England has done and taken away from other certain countries.

The Lord Zeezus summed it up pretty well in his post.

That's why NI, Scotland and Wales and actually Ireland get pissed with England so much because of the way Tom basically made out like we should all drop our identity because 'England Rules Us'.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Baby Zeesus

Tom's original post was worded in a way that I think highlights one of the reasons why people generally dislike the idea of a United Kingdom in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland though - that arrogant assumption that England is this weary benefactor of three 'scrounging' nations... On the contrary, we have all been trying to establish ourselves as independent nations who are not reliant on the English to sustain ourselves. That's the point that it comes down to though - in Westminster, the three smaller nations do not get as much of a say yet were affected by nationwide decisions; now that there's been some form of devolution in all three (either through the assemblies or parliament in Scotland's case) that issue isn't as prominent. Therefore the reason the English don't have a separate Parliament, it seems to me, is because by creating one, it signals the end of the United Kingdom as such, and promotes the idea of four separate nations under one banner, and would probably lead to the dissolution of the UK.

Basically I see the lack of an English Parliament as the glue holding the UK together.

Tom seemed more to be dismissing the influence of the Scottish Parliament than their contribution to the Union, a view I would personally disagree with. The view that England are the benefactor of Scotland/Wales/N.I is not one that most of the English hold, I think most would acknowledge Scotland's importance to the Union. Scots could also be accused of the same offence as well, I may be wrong but there seems to be a "they need us more than we need them" attitude among many Scots, particularly when it comes to something like the North Sea oil

I do think you have a valid point though, in that an English Parliament could be a final step toward the breakdown of the Union. Although English nationalism is undoubtedly on the rise as it is and I do think part of that is because of our lack of a Parliament. Scottish, Welsh & Irish MP's can vote on exclusively English issues yet English MP's cannot do the same for matters affecting the other nations, and I dont think that is fair. It's a difficult situation alright, I like the idea of the English Parliament but it could effectively render Westminster pointless so maybe it is necessary to refrain from introducing one

I think the complete devolution of the UK will happen at some point tbh, I really dont know how long it can continue to survive

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Dasher

That's kind of petty and stupid to be honest, if you think of everything England has done and taken away from other certain countries.

The Lord Zeezus summed it up pretty well in his post.

That's why NI, Scotland and Wales and actually Ireland get pissed with England so much because of the way Tom basically made out like we should all drop our identity because 'England Rules Us'.

It isnt petty or stupid at all, it's a serious issue in British politics. It may be necessary for England not to have a parliament so the Union can survive but I cant see how it could ever be considered fair.

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Tom

N. Ireland and Scotland might have their own parliaments but they're ultimately ruled by England. Is there any point, other than historical reasons, to keep it as 4 separate countries instead of just integrating it all into one and downgrading England/Wales/Scotland/Northern Ireland to regions?

Yes its something called the Acts of (the)Union from 1536 (then1707) onward up to and including the various legislature that allowed the reintroduction of regional assemblies, which allows each country its own identity its own boundaries and the certain self determining rights, the Independence of Scottish education and judicial systems to name a couple.

Throwing all four countries back together into one country under one parliament would create more problems than it solves.

The biggest of these would be the people of three of the countries resenting the lack of regional assemblies etc and would probably lead to the dissolution of the union very rapidly.

United together as we are currently the UK can shout fairly loudly in Europe, four smaller individual countries would be ignored more than we currently are, that is if all four elected to stay in Europe, if they were even allowed in Europe as four separate independand nations.

The balance between self determination and collective sovereignity is about right for the current times.

[InOne]

It's ironic that they all have much more affirmed cultures than us.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Tom

N. Ireland and Scotland might have their own parliaments but they're ultimately ruled by England. Is there any point, other than historical reasons, to keep it as 4 separate countries instead of just integrating it all into one and downgrading England/Wales/Scotland/Northern Ireland to regions?

Dead New Labour made it worse.



North Ireland should join the South
and have both money types for a year,
as they change.

[arista]

Republic Of Scotland
would be good
but it does not have public backing - enough.