[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Stu

Yes you said it was best to agree to disagree then continued on arguing, which is why I responded.

If you want to agree to disagree you don't need my permission. Just stop replying to my posts.

And you to mine also please,

[Stu]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

And you to mine also please,

That's for me to decide isin't it? And I'm having too much fun now that it's apparent that you have some weird obsession with having the last post.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Surprised you take that line sadly, it used to be the vehicle for some artists to break through worldwide, Celine Dion,Johnny Logan had massive world success and they were in Eurovision but it openred the door for loads of UK acts across Europe after they represented the UK.

The last 7 or 8 years it has lost that status but it did if you read the history of Eurovision,open the door for many acts worldwide that otherwise may have stayed closed to them.

It might have opened the doors, in that it gave them a platform to be heard, but they still would not have won due to talent, but due to who was pally with who, which country had fallen out with which one, and what countries were trying to curry favour with others. If the winning country happened to have a singer/group who were half decent, I'd have thought that was a lucky byproduct for the singer/group concerned - - but to class it as Highly Prestigious on an international level? Nope, can't agree on that one at all.

And I'd say it's been a laughing stock for about double the length of time you feel it lost it's way - if not even longer than that.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

It might have opened the doors, in that it gave them a platform to be heard, but they still would not have won due to talent, but due to who was pally with who, which country had fallen out with which one, and what countries were trying to curry favour with others. If the winning country happened to have a singer/group who were half decent, I'd have thought that was a lucky byproduct for the singer/group concerned - - but to class it as Highly Prestigious on an international level? Nope, can't agree on that one at all.

And I'd say it's been a laughing stock for about double the length of time you feel it lost it's way - if not even longer than that.

I dont think that used to be the case, look which 4 countries have won it the most; Ireland, France, the UK & Luxembourg. None of those countries have that many guranteed votes, or that many other countries that can be relied on to give them points. It's become a lot more about voting for your neighbours since Yugoslavia was dissolved but before then I dont necessarily think it was. It was Eurovision that first launched the career of Abba who went on to become one the most successful bands of all time, I dont think you can just put that win down to Sweden being "pally" with other countries

[joeysteele]

Good heavens,MTVN thank you. How on earth did I forget to mention ABBA one of the biggest groups ever that may never have broken through but for Eurovision.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

It might have opened the doors, in that it gave them a platform to be heard, but they still would not have won due to talent, but due to who was pally with who, which country had fallen out with which one, and what countries were trying to curry favour with others. If the winning country happened to have a singer/group who were half decent, I'd have thought that was a lucky byproduct for the singer/group concerned - - but to class it as Highly Prestigious on an international level? Nope, can't agree on that one at all.

And I'd say it's been a laughing stock for about double the length of time you feel it lost it's way - if not even longer than that.

Originally Posted by MTVN

I dont think that used to be the case, look which 4 countries have won it the most; Ireland, France, the UK & Luxembourg. None of those countries have that many guranteed votes, or that many other countries that can be relied on to give them points. It's become a lot more about voting for your neighbours since Yugoslavia was dissolved but before then I dont necessarily think it was. It was Eurovision that first launched the career of Abba who went on to become one the most successful bands of all time, I dont think you can just put that win down to Sweden being "pally" with other countries

Abba won in 1974. 36 years ago. You'll see the last part of my post above, bolded in blue - made reference to it being a laughing stock and not to be taken seriously for quite some time.

I didn't suggest the policital aspect had any impact 36 years ago: given that Joeysteele quoted 7 or 8 years and I suggested double that time frame - that's clearly the point at which I personally fel the political side came into play and at which point politics decided the winner rather than talent.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Good heavens,MTVN thank you. How on earth did I forget to mention ABBA one of the biggest groups ever that may never have broken through but for Eurovision.

Possibly because you weren't even born then to be aware of the difference between in the show way back in the 70's, and how it has changed over the decades.....just a thought!

[patsylimerick]

So here's the thing with Jedward. When they first appeared on our screen, I hid behind my hands and cringed, as I did for quite a few weeks. The smallies make me watch X Factor and I found them growing on me against my better judgement. And here's why.
They are unfailingly polite, positive and full of energy. They are somewhat talented, though not greatly, but make up for that by working like Clydesdales, exuding energy and positivity and accepting criticism with a 'fair enough, but our fans like us so we'll keep doing it for them'. They don't respond with 'g'way u sad &^%$ you have a sad little life and I've got a new car nanananaa'. They carry on with what they're doing.
Friday night they were on cloud 9,999,999 because they were (just) selected to represent Ireland in the Eurovision. Their excitement was infectious.
They are polite and sweet and, In One, I think Niamh is bang on, not the sharpest knives in the drawer but extremely driven. They are well spoken (if you can get past the weird planet Jedward pseudo-American accents ). According to several industry insiders who have spoken about them on the X Factor and since, they work twice as hard as everyone around them and then for a little bit longer. They have been booed by thousands and never once utter a word in martyrdom. NEVER. They understand that they are not to everyone's taste and are immensely grateful to have the fans that they have.
They are, in actual fact, the exact opposite in attitude and demeanour to so many zelebrities and, in particular, the spawn of some Reality shows we are all familiar with. A perfect contrast. I'm delighted for them.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Stu

Most of Europe take it seriously. That's also why we were booed off the stage when we thought it would be utter hillarity to put a puppet turkey up to do a number. I will look foward to the same thing happening this year.

Yeah it's car crash TV but Ireland was looking to regain some of the past fame it had in the competition and actually had a few credible songs from credible songwriters on offer this year. Instead we vote for these two absoloute helmets who have no right to be anywhere near even the most riddiculous of song contests.

At the risk of sounding pretentious even at their age I would be smart enough to say 'no thank you' to whatever agent my mum and Louis Walsh hired to rope me into the Eurovision. I would say 'no thank you, but I'm really no fit for this'. Jedward clearly have no qualms about 'avin der bit of fun' and dicking around to the delight of nobody over the age of twelve.

It's creepy and I hope someone runs into them with an automobile of any kind. My problem I guess is not with them decrediting a creditless competition ... more the douches who actually paid money to pick up a telephone and ensure their success.

/rant

Originally Posted by Stu

No, we really don't want to win. We can't afford to host it next year. Father Ted was prophetic and 100% on the money with this.Also Jedward are not big in Ireland. Let's not go crazy. They fill GAA halls with twelve year olds and have had one novelty #1 that faded as fast as my last hangover. That's not 'big in Ireland'.

Also, that bloke Don Mescal that was in the running last night played all the time in a pub we used to frequent back in Portugal when we used to holiday there.

Far out.

Firstly, which is is, Stu? We do or we don't?
Secondly, Ireland won the Eurovision in 92, 93 and 94. From mid-Summer 94 on the running joke in every pub and around every kitchen table was where we could find a bad enough song so we wouldn't win it again. Father Ted was made between 1995 and 1998. Prophetic? Emm. No.

[Stu]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

Firstly, which is is, Stu? We do or we don't?
Secondly, Ireland won the Eurovision in 92, 93 and 94. From mid-Summer 94 on the running joke in every pub and around every kitchen table was where we could find a bad enough song so we wouldn't win it again. Father Ted was made between 1995 and 1998. Prophetic? Emm. No.

I don't see the contradiction. Eurovision nuts and the other songwriters wanted a credible song to be put in. RTE would favour a loss because they would be the ones who would have to foot the bill the next year.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Possibly because you weren't even born then to be aware of the difference between in the show way back in the 70's, and how it has changed over the decades.....just a thought!

I accept your point to be fair to you, maybe 7 to 8 years was too much a small time to give, so I accept that I was over zealous to Eurovision on that point and concede you make a better point on that time scale than I did, however you also did say the Eurovision had 'never' in its life been prestigious.


Time was until the mid 90s at least that the winning song of Eurovision near always charted here in the UK and in other countries,often very highly too which gave that act a introduction and success in many countries that may otherwise likely not have happened for them.

It has a history and as MTVN pointed ABBA, admittedly from 1974,Waterloo I am told was considered a joke entry but what it led to was one of the best and most successful groups of the 70s and 80s, Worldwide.

I love the whole show that is Eurovision,its not all bad and its not all good and no matter the result its good in my opinion to have so many nations of the World involved that one night in a contest.
Loved or hated,its ran since the mid 1950s and seems to in no way be running out of steam yet.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

They are unfailingly polite, positive and full of energy.

No, they are rude, arrogant and obnoxious. Like when they went into the BB house and rammed past certain HMs.

They only started to tone down the arrogance when they re-appeared for the live shows on XF. Clearly they'd been instructed to change their behaviour by Louis walsh because they needed to actually win votes from the public.

[Stu]

Looks like we are cracking open a few Eurovision closets eh? Come on out folks.

It is a circus of forgettable euro-pap and high camp, a musical black hole of unfathomable depth and a huge waste of time, money and effort in a celebration of utterly meaningless mediocrity.

Though the gheys seem to love it.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I accept your point to be fair to you, maybe 7 to 8 years was too much a small time to give, so I accept that I was over zealous to Eurovision on that point and concede you make a better point on that time scale than I did, however you also did say the Eurovision had 'never' in its life been prestigious.


Time was until the mid 90s at least that the winning song of Eurovision near always charted here in the UK and in other countries,often very highly too which gave that act a introduction and success in many countries that may otherwise likely not have happened for them.

It has a history and as MTVN pointed ABBA, admittedly from 1974,Waterloo I am told was considered a joke entry but what it led to was one of the best and most successful groups of the 70s and 80s, Worldwide.

I love the whole show that is Eurovision,its not all bad and its not all good and no matter the result its good in my opinion to have so many nations of the World involved that one night in a contest.
Loved or hated,its ran since the mid 1950s and seems to in no way be running out of steam yet.

Which has been my point all along. It never was a competition that was ever taken too seriously. Entertaining, but not to be taken seriously.

Kudos to Abba and some of the other acts that came off the back of it - many of them from the UK (ie: Cliff Richard, Lulu, Olivia Newton John -ok an aussie -, Black Lace and many others) but as I say, I seriously couldn't give it the International Prestige that you placed upon it.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

So here's the thing with Jedward. When they first appeared on our screen, I hid behind my hands and cringed, as I did for quite a few weeks. The smallies make me watch X Factor and I found them growing on me against my better judgement. And here's why.
They are unfailingly polite, positive and full of energy. They are somewhat talented, though not greatly, but make up for that by working like Clydesdales, exuding energy and positivity and accepting criticism with a 'fair enough, but our fans like us so we'll keep doing it for them'. They don't respond with 'g'way u sad &^%$ you have a sad little life and I've got a new car nanananaa'. They carry on with what they're doing.
Friday night they were on cloud 9,999,999 because they were (just) selected to represent Ireland in the Eurovision. Their excitement was infectious.
They are polite and sweet and, In One, I think Niamh is bang on, not the sharpest knives in the drawer but extremely driven. They are well spoken (if you can get past the weird planet Jedward pseudo-American accents ). According to several industry insiders who have spoken about them on the X Factor and since, they work twice as hard as everyone around them and then for a little bit longer. They have been booed by thousands and never once utter a word in martyrdom. NEVER. They understand that they are not to everyone's taste and are immensely grateful to have the fans that they have.
They are, in actual fact, the exact opposite in attitude and demeanour to so many zelebrities and, in particular, the spawn of some Reality shows we are all familiar with. A perfect contrast. I'm delighted for them.

I 100% agree with you on this really good post, the only difference is I liked Jedward on the X Factor right from the auditions,but really, congratulations on a really informative and very fair post.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Zippy

No, they are rude, arrogant and obnoxious. Like when they went into the BB house and rammed past certain HMs.

They only started to tone down the arrogance when they re-appeared for the live shows on XF. Clearly they'd been instructed to change their behaviour by Louis walsh because they needed to actually win votes from the public.

I don't know if you missed the point of the Ignore the Obvious task. They did exactly what they were asked to do and it was hilarious. The most hilarious part of it was the look on that pathetic twonk Andrew's face. If he was looking at me like that, he'd have got a lot more than rammed. That silly little twerp - who was going to go in and confront Dave, remember?, and ends up at Gloryfest a few months later because his nose is so deeply embedded in the obnoxious JJ's arse. John, or Edward, or whoever it was, didn't ram him half hard enough.

edit: so other when they did what they were asked to do and cause chaos - where's the link for someone who spent time with them describing them as rude and/or obnoxious? I'd love to see it.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

So here's the thing with Jedward. When they first appeared on our screen, I hid behind my hands and cringed, as I did for quite a few weeks. The smallies make me watch X Factor and I found them growing on me against my better judgement. And here's why.
They are unfailingly polite, positive and full of energy. They are somewhat talented, though not greatly, but make up for that by working like Clydesdales, exuding energy and positivity and accepting criticism with a 'fair enough, but our fans like us so we'll keep doing it for them'. They don't respond with 'g'way u sad &^%$ you have a sad little life and I've got a new car nanananaa'. They carry on with what they're doing.
Friday night they were on cloud 9,999,999 because they were (just) selected to represent Ireland in the Eurovision. Their excitement was infectious.
They are polite and sweet and, In One, I think Niamh is bang on, not the sharpest knives in the drawer but extremely driven. They are well spoken (if you can get past the weird planet Jedward pseudo-American accents ). According to several industry insiders who have spoken about them on the X Factor and since, they work twice as hard as everyone around them and then for a little bit longer. They have been booed by thousands and never once utter a word in martyrdom. NEVER. They understand that they are not to everyone's taste and are immensely grateful to have the fans that they have.
They are, in actual fact, the exact opposite in attitude and demeanour to so many zelebrities and, in particular, the spawn of some Reality shows we are all familiar with. A perfect contrast. I'm delighted for them.

Fair points you've raised Patsy. I don't like them but in all honestly, now that you've put up this post, I can't recall them taking the high and mighty stance - but they do seem to take it on the chin and just get on with what they are doing. so yep, I can see where you are coming from.

[Zippy]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

where's the link for someone who spent time with them describing them as rude and/or obnoxious? I'd love to see it.

Link? firstly, I dont care enough to find links, my dear.

and maybe your memory fails you but after the XF pre-recorded auditions were aired everybody was slagging them and commenting on their obnoxious arrogant attitudes. Everybody.

Then, just like with Darius, somebody seemed to have coached them into acting more likeable when they returned for the live XF shows months after. Because being obnoxious and full of yourself doesn't win public votes.

and the reason they don't complain about all the boo's and hatred is because they are well aware that they are DAMN LUCKY to be where they are. Y'know, given that they clearly have no talent whatsoever!

pffft its bad enough arguing with Gaga obsessives now Im having to deal with Jedward fanatics? I wouldnt bother normally but Im bored enough to right now.

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Link? firstly, I dont care enough to find links, my dear.

and maybe your memory fails you but after the XF pre-recorded auditions were aired everybody was slagging them and commenting on their obnoxious arrogant attitudes. Everybody.

Then, just like with Darius, somebody seemed to have coached them into acting more likeable when they returned for the live XF shows months after. Because being obnoxious and full of yourself doesn't win public votes.

and the reason they don't complain about all the boo's and hatred is because they are well aware that they are DAMN LUCKY to be where they are. Y'know, given that they clearly have no talent whatsoever!

pffft its bad enough arguing with Gaga obsessives now Im having to deal with Jedward fanatics? I wouldnt bother normally but Im bored enough to right now.

BIB 1. Who? Simon Cowell and the viewers? How do they know what they're like? Cowell sees less of the contestants than the viewers do and the viewers that I heard talking about it said lots about Jedward being annoying and untalented - but never rude. Never.

BIB 2. I more or less agree with this - I was talking about their attitude, work ethic and energy. Go back and read my initial post again, if you like. Mind you, they can sing as well as Cheryl Cole can..............

BIB 3. My kids are fans of theirs. They are a long distance from my musical tastes, but as I monitor where my children's interests lie, I've reluctantly seen a fair bit of them and have been surprised by how well they come across. Please stop making ridiculous assumptions and base your responses on what I actually said. Not once did I say anything about their singing, dancing or performing, other than that they are 'mildly' talented; as in, they can hold a tune and, if you're a girl aged under 12, are fairly easy on the eye, I would imagine.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Zippy

Link? firstly, I dont care enough to find links, my dear.

and maybe your memory fails you but after the XF pre-recorded auditions were aired everybody was slagging them and commenting on their obnoxious arrogant attitudes. Everybody.

Then, just like with Darius, somebody seemed to have coached them into acting more likeable when they returned for the live XF shows months after. Because being obnoxious and full of yourself doesn't win public votes.

and the reason they don't complain about all the boo's and hatred is because they are well aware that they are DAMN LUCKY to be where they are. Y'know, given that they clearly have no talent whatsoever!

pffft its bad enough arguing with Gaga obsessives now Im having to deal with Jedward fanatics? I wouldnt bother normally but Im bored enough to right now.

Agreed. Cant remember exactly but in the boot camp auditions where different contestants had to sing with each other didnt they sing over someone else bit or something? They didnt strike me as "unfailingly polite" there..

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by Stu

Looks like we are cracking open a few Eurovision closets eh? Come on out folks.

It is a circus of forgettable euro-pap and high camp, a musical black hole of unfathomable depth and a huge waste of time, money and effort in a celebration of utterly meaningless mediocrity.

Though the gheys seem to love it.

It is actually a guilty pleasure of mine Sure it's a joke but you just have to accept it for what it is, I'm not going to pretend it epitomises musical talent but it does make for some light-hearted, entertaining viewing

[patsylimerick]

Originally Posted by MTVN

It is actually a guilty pleasure of mine Sure it's a joke but you just have to accept it for what it is, I'm not going to pretend it epitomises musical talent but it does make for some light-hearted, entertaining viewing

Of course it's shoite, but that's the fun of it. If you take it with a lorry load of salt and listen to the BBC commentary on the voting, it's great craic altogether. Ever since Johnny Logan I've tried to catch it every year. It's become a routine in our house that himself beats a hasty retreat to the pub and I crack open a bottle and laugh my ass off for a couple of hours. Everyone needs a good dose of camp inanity every now and again. It's good for the soul.

[Stu]

Nothing beats Marty Wheelan on RTE. I love hearing him get progressively more pissed off at eastern europe as the voting goes along.

[James]

Originally Posted by patsylimerick

I don't know if you missed the point of the Ignore the Obvious task. They did exactly what they were asked to do and it was hilarious. The most hilarious part of it was the look on that pathetic twonk Andrew's face. If he was looking at me like that, he'd have got a lot more than rammed. That silly little twerp - who was going to go in and confront Dave, remember?, and ends up at Gloryfest a few months later because his nose is so deeply embedded in the obnoxious JJ's arse. John, or Edward, or whoever it was, didn't ram him half hard enough.

edit: so other when they did what they were asked to do and cause chaos - where's the link for someone who spent time with them describing them as rude and/or obnoxious? I'd love to see it.

You can't compare Big Brother housemates with X Factor. Totally different shows. We don't know what X Factor contestants are really like behind-the-scenes. We never get shown that like BB.

[Kerry]

I see Jedward were in the crowd on Dancing on Ice earlier. Apparent guests of Vanilla Ice. Also jibing the judges (well, Jason) - Keeping up appearances??