[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by MTVN

Well it was the last video uploaded to FB before all the best bits one and like Pyramid says below it says Day 64 so I guess it was final night



Well Aaron starts off the discussion about splitting the money and then Jay just takes up the conversation and says he'd be happy to do that and Aaron nods along. You could say he was looking hesitant there but he looked pretty sure when Jay went to clarify saying "shall we do that then?" and Aaron gives a confident "yep" and shakes his hand

If Jay thought he was going to win why would he offer the deal to split the money in the first place? And I think he was saying that if it was 1st/4th they could do 35/15 or something but I'm not really sure myself

Let's confirm the facts. The 'edit' that we have been allowed to see, shows that is where the convo starts off...... and Aaron makes it VERY clear that he and harry had that discussion way back when the prize was £100k.

I still say what I said earlier: I think Jay highly manipulated the situation for his own advantage - Aaron had not got the words out of his mouth just about, when Jay went right in there, and repeatedly enforced what a great idea it was........ It epitomises Jay and all that he is.... a manipulator, and out for his own gains only.

[calyman]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

They didn't agree on that though, he swapped the names and Aaron later swapped them back, further reinforcing the fact that they hadn't agreed on the deal - Justsayin'

It doesn't matter if it's suspected that Jay made his offer in a fit of pique. He made an informed decision to let Aaron have his share of the money. Jay even reinforced this decision by changing the names.

It could be argued that Jay was doing this out of a sense of malicious manipulation to demean and diminish Aaron, it could even be said trhat this is also the same reason that Jay claims he will donate the money Aaron gives him, to charity. Those are just speculations. What is not speculation however; id that Aaron did agree to give Jay 20,000 and Jay did say he would give Aaron his 15,000 (despite 5,500 not belonging to him in any case). If honour is paramount, this applies to Jay, if it's demanded of Aaron

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by calyman

It doesn't matter if it's suspected that Jay made his offer in a fit of pique. He made an informed decision to let Aaron have his share of the money. Jay even reinforced this decision by changing the names.

It could be argued that Jay was doing this out of a sense of malicious manipulation to demean and diminish Aaron, it could even be said trhat this is also the same reason that Jay claims he will donate the money Aaron gives him, to charity. Those are just speculations.

What is not speculation however; id that Aaron did agree to give Jay 20,000 and Jay did say he would give Aaron his 15,000 (despite 5,500 not belonging to him in any case). If honour is paramount, this applies to Jay, if it's demanded of Aaron

Excellent summary and I agree with every word.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by calyman

It doesn't matter if it's suspected that Jay made his offer in a fit of pique. He made an informed decision to let Aaron have his share of the money. Jay even reinforced this decision by changing the names.

It could be argued that Jay was doing this out of a sense of malicious manipulation to demean and diminish Aaron, it could even be said trhat this is also the same reason that Jay claims he will donate the money Aaron gives him, to charity. Those are just speculations. What is not speculation however; id that Aaron did agree to give Jay 20,000 and Jay did say he would give Aaron his 15,000 (despite 5,500 not belonging to him in any case). If honour is paramount, this applies to Jay, if it's demanded of Aaron

I understand that but Aaron subsequently rejected his offer by moving his name back to it's original place. I'm no fan of Jay but the two scenarios are incomparable imo.

[daniel-lewis-1985]

Originally Posted by Novo

What a mug.. Aaron outsmarted him completely

Yet if Jay had agreed to give Aaron half the money then didnt you would think he was scum.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I understand that but Aaron subsequently rejected his offer by moving his name back to it's original place. I'm no fan of Jay but the two scenarios are incomparable imo.

Did Jay confirm to Aaron that he (Jay) no longer needed to give him his (Jay's) share...... Aaron placing the nameplate back doesn't confirm that Jay relinquished his previous insistence that Aaron be giving Jay's share?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Did Jay confirm to Aaron that he (Jay) no longer needed to give him his (Jay's) share...... Aaron placing the nameplate back doesn't confirm that Jay relinquished his previous insistence that Aaron be giving Jay's share?

If you offered me something and I said I don't want it, I wouldn't expect you to say "Fine I withdraw my offer"

[calyman]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

I understand that but Aaron subsequently rejected his offer by moving his name back to it's original place. I'm no fan of Jay but the two scenarios are incomparable imo.

That's true, Aaron did do that but it does not release Jay from his responsibility. He does not need Aaron to make his decisions for him, after all he did not respect Aarons shared decision with him and Lou not to spend £500 each on Birthday gifts, rather he was duplicitious and went behind Aaron's back.. Perhaps Aaron may wish to donate the 15,000 (in his own name) to his chosen charity. Do you suppose Jay would agree to this?

[BBfan6418]

Originally Posted by calyman

It doesn't matter if it's suspected that Jay made his offer in a fit of pique. He made an informed decision to let Aaron have his share of the money. Jay even reinforced this decision by changing the names.

It could be argued that Jay was doing this out of a sense of malicious manipulation to demean and diminish Aaron, it could even be said trhat this is also the same reason that Jay claims he will donate the money Aaron gives him, to charity. Those are just speculations. What is not speculation however; id that Aaron did agree to give Jay 20,000 and Jay did say he would give Aaron his 15,000 (despite 5,500 not belonging to him in any case). If honour is paramount, this applies to Jay, if it's demanded of Aaron

Do you guys not watch the show? Why do you have to make stuff up? Jay never said he would give Aaron 15,000. He said "there he can have my money cause he is such a ****ing freak." anyone that watched the show knows at the point this was said Jay had only 9,500. Aaron was not in the room and never agreed to it. Furthermore Aaron took his name off the 15K and put it back on the 990. The deal Jay and Aaron had with the 50K was a solid agreement confirmed with a handshake. If you can't see the difference in this you need help. Also, not suprised pyramid agrees with you he/she has been spouting off non truth's for a while.

[calyman]

Originally Posted by BBfan6418

Do you guys not watch the show? Why do you have to make stuff up? Jay never said he would give Aaron 15,000. He said "there he can have my money cause he is such a ****ing freak." anyone that watched the show knows at the point this was said Jay had only 9,500. Aaron was not in the room and never agreed to it. Furthermore Aaron took his name off the 15K and put it back on the 990. The deal Jay and Aaron had with the 50K was a solid agreement confirmed with a handshake. If you can't see the difference in this you need help. Also, not suprised pyramid agrees with you he/she has been spouting off non truth's for a while.

Please read my earlier post to answer your objections.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by calyman

That's true, Aaron did do that but it does not release Jay from his responsibility. He does not need Aaron to make his decisions for him, after all he did not respect Aarons shared decision with him and Lou not to spend £500 each on Birthday gifts, rather he was duplicitious and went behind Aaron's back.. Perhaps Aaron may wish to donate the 15,000 (in his own name) to his chosen charity. Do you suppose Jay would agree to this?

Of course it releases him from his responsibility! (not that I even believe for a minute that he had any responsibility btw) But if I did believe that, if a someone offers you something and you say I don't want it, then there's where it ends imo.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by BBfan6418

Do you guys not watch the show? Why do you have to make stuff up? Jay never said he would give Aaron 15,000. He said "there he can have my money cause he is such a ****ing freak." anyone that watched the show knows at the point this was said Jay had only 9,500. Aaron was not in the room and never agreed to it. Furthermore Aaron took his name off the 15K and put it back on the 990. The deal Jay and Aaron had with the 50K was a solid agreement confirmed with a handshake. If you can't see the difference in this you need help. Also, not suprised pyramid agrees with you he/she has been spouting off non truth's for a while.

this 'guy' here writing this comment, watched the show. This 'guy' here can confirm that Jay also said during his rant, referring to the money: " I don't want it "

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

If you offered me something and I said I don't want it, I wouldn't expect you to say "Fine I withdraw my offer"

That's you though. That doesn't make what you would do be regarded, as right - you would do is right, wrong or the only option.

We all have different views on how we regard this. We don't agree.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

That's you though. That doesn't make what you would do be regarded, as right - you would do is right, wrong or the only option.

We all have different views on how we regard this. We don't agree.

So you think if someone offered you a car and you said no I don't want it, that they'd still be obliged to give it to you if you decided to change your mind? Really?

Originally Posted by Niamh.

So you think if someone offered you a car and you said no I don't want it, that they'd still be obliged to give it to you if you decided to change your mind? Really?

Although I have given and received extravagant gifts before, where we have to play the game of "that's too much, I can't accept it," before moving on to "are you sure?".

Jay said that Aaron could have his money.

Jay also said in twitter that he didn't want the money as he had Lou, and she was his prize.

I just think Aaron should keep £50k, and give his other £10k to the other HM's to add to their pot, by way of an offered compromise. Otherwise, it could get a bit silly and drag on and on, and do none of them any favours.

I think it's quite clear that Aaron isn't going to give Jay any of his winnings, and Jay/his ma, slagging him off have given him just cause to do so without guilt. Moaning that someone has gone back on a deal before the money has arrived is classless and petty.

Aaron could be equally petty about things.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

So you think if someone offered you a car and you said no I don't want it, that they'd still be obliged to give it to you if you decided to change your mind? Really?

Yes....Really.

Dependant on situations, some verbal agreements are bound by law - and the fact that Jay reinforced and reaffirmed his words, by his actions: yes, my view still remains.

I have already offered what I feel would be a very easy solution to the whole sorry mess: did you see that post at all?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

Although I have given and received extravagant gifts before, where we have to play the game of "that's too much, I can't accept it," before moving on to "are you sure?".

Jay said that Aaron could have his money.

Jay also said in twitter that he didn't want the money as he had Lou, and she was his prize.

I just think Aaron should keep £50k, and give his other £10k to the other HM's to add to their pot, by way of an offered compromise. Otherwise, it could get a bit silly and drag on and on, and do none of them any favours.

I think it's quite clear that Aaron isn't going to give Jay any of his winnings, and Jay/his ma, slagging him off have given him just cause to do so without guilt. Moaning that someone has gone back on a deal before the money has arrived is classless and petty.

Aaron could be equally petty about things.

I agree with the majority of what you said, and the compromise is a very good suggestion.

Though for you to state (when we have no absolute proof), "that it is pretty clear that Aaron isn't going to give Jay any of his winnings" - isn't that you doing yourself, that you have stated is 'classless and petty'.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Yes....Really.

Dependant on situations, some verbal agreements are bound by law - and the fact that Jay reinforced and reaffirmed his words, by his actions: yes, my view still remains.

I have already offered what I feel would be a very easy solution to the whole sorry mess: did you see that post at all?

Well, I think you would be in the minority there. And I really don't think that it was a verbal agreement and I certainly don't think it would be bound by law.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Well, I think you would be in the minority there. And I really don't think that it was a verbal agreement and I certainly don't think it would be bound by law.

Nothing wrong with being in the minority - it doesn't make any differnce to my opinion.

Any thoughts on the other bit of my post? this part:-

I have already offered what I feel would be a very easy solution to the whole sorry mess: did you see that post at all?

I know the posts have been flying fast and furious and it's easy enough to bypass some. Do you think what I suggested earlier on would be a good solution?

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Nothing wrong with being in the minority - it doesn't make any differnce to my opinion.

Any thoughts on the other bit of my post? this part:-


I know the posts have been flying fast and furious and it's easy enough to bypass some. Do you think what I suggested earlier on would be a good solution?

You could have actually quoted what you posted earlier instead of asking me did I see it twice. I'm not trailing through 10 pages of posts to try and find it.

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I agree with the majority of what you said, and the compromise is a very good suggestion.

Though for you to state (when we have no absolute proof), "that it is pretty clear that Aaron isn't going to give Jay any of his winnings" - isn't that you doing yourself, that you have stated is 'classless and petty'.

I'm a nobody, and I haven't been in the newspapers and radio stations crying about it, like the McKray twins have. Mine is an opinion on a message board. I also think that Aarons priority to secure his sons future is a noble one and completely justifies him keeping the money.

You really confuse me as a poster, you do.

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You could have actually quoted what you posted earlier instead of asking me did I see it twice. I'm not trailing through 10 pages of posts to try and find it.

Spoilsport

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

You could have actually quoted what you posted earlier instead of asking me did I see it twice. I'm not trailing through 10 pages of posts to try and find it.

Here it is.... I thought you may have recalled it as it was round about the same time JesusHChrist was putting over his situation regarding the car.

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

If it is regarded that Aaron was drunk, that is concluded as being not in control of his actions or thoughts then and therefore, the agreement in nul and void. Now, I'll play fair here and apply this same logic therefore to when Jay said Aaron could have his money - since Jay had been drinking that night. Let's say Jay was drunk, same rules apply.

So it's back to the Winner Take All re the £50k, with the other £50k being split as the 5 winners agreed upon.

Originally Posted by Jesus.H.Christ

I'm a nobody, and I haven't been in the newspapers and radio stations crying about it, like the McKray twins have. Mine is an opinion on a message board. I also think that Aarons priority to secure his sons future is a noble one and completely justifies him keeping the money.

You really confuse me as a poster, you do.

I know we are all on a forum talking about it and that we are all nobodies: but I don't see what is really confusing at that at all? anyway, I will try to explain.

you had stated that you think Aaron is not going to give Jay his share of the winnings - when there is nothing to prove that. (just as there is nothing to prove that Jay will or won't stick to his 'take the money, Idont want it' thing). You then added that moaning about someone going back on a deal before the money has arrived, is classless and petty.

I think it's quite clear that Aaron isn't going to give Jay any of his winnings, and Jay/his ma, slagging him off have given him just cause to do so without guilt. Moaning that someone has gone back on a deal before the money has arrived is classless and petty.

With you saying you think Aaron will go back on his word, when we don't know that, isn't the same terminology therefore applied conversely - I understand it's your view and I understand why you may have that view: but I'm not entirely clear what the difference is - whether it be Jay/Jays mum/ or anyone else - none of us know what is happening.

We are all in effect 'moaning'/'arguing' about whats,, ifs, maybe, why..... when not one of us know what Aaron and Jay have discussed (if anything) between themselves.

Hope this explains a bit better?

[Vicky.]

Does anyone really care what Aaron does with the money?

I mean, besides the obvious 'but its a chance to bash aaron' reason...

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

If it is regarded that Aaron was drunk, that is concluded as being not in control of his actions or thoughts then and therefore, the agreement in nul and void. Now, I'll play fair here and apply this same logic therefore to when Jay said Aaron could have his money - since Jay had been drinking that night. Let's say Jay was drunk, same rules apply.

So it's back to the Winner Take All re the £50k, with the other £50k being split as the 5 winners agreed upon.

Well, I don't view the two scenarios to be the same -drunk or not- as I've already pointed out numerous times. Was Aaron drunk when he made the deal?

Either way, I doubt his agreement is legally binding, more morally binding imo but as Vicky said whatever he chooses to do with the money isn't going to change what I think of him as a HM and I have my doubts as to whether Jay would have stuck to the agreement had he won.