[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Omah

OTOH, maybe drunken foul-mouthed young louts will think twice before breaking the law and abusing a public servant on ScotRail when there's a "Big Man" about .....

What public servant?

Scotrail isnt a government run agency.

Obviously up in your ivory tower, it may seem ok to call us menial folk servants, doesnt mean we have to like it though.

Anyway looks like the "ned" or a member of his family or even another passenger has complained

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...ntral-16177725

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Shasown

What public servant?

Scotrail isnt a government run agency.

Obviously up in your ivory tower, it may seem ok to call us menial folk servants, doesnt mean we have to like it though.

Anyway looks like the "ned" or a member of his family or even another passenger has complained

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotlan...ntral-16177725

So if this story is to be believed...he only got agitated when the conductor started accusing him, after he tried to explain the situation

"There was a discussion with me trying to explain myself for about a minute and then the conductor started shouting at me," he said.

Will be interesting to see how this all plays out if they do proper investigations and that.

I hope the complaint is not withdrawn. That big guy needs to learn he cant just do what he likes because hes big

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

How was that an assumption on my part?

You assumed what you saw was the whole story .....

I said none of us saw what happened in full which is true unless you're the person that recorded the video in question. I made a statement, not an assumption.

You made a statement based on an assumption (i.e. that nothing had happened previously) .....

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Christmas Neeve

I find it very hard to believe that he had absolutely no way of contacting either the rail security or the police, if he had no radio or phone to do so, I'm 100% certain, one of the other oh so helpful passengers would have let him borrow their mobile phone

I'm only putting forward possibilities - which is what we all are doing.

Originally Posted by Vicky.

I think he just wanted to play the big man...if its fine for others to make assumptions then its fine for me to do the same thing

Just because others are voicing their displeasure...this makes it right? Lets say I was in a shop on my lunch hour, and someone was taking absolutely forever to pay for their goods...people behind me are tutting and moaning...Im unhappy as I have to be back at work soon, the person serving looks sick to the back teeth of it...would it be fine for me to just grab the slowcoach and manhandle them out of the door? Of course it bloody wouldnt. Just because others are pissed off too, doesnt make it right

I am not going to argue against the last bit, because I agree. The kid was in the wrong. Its the actions of the conductor...and more so the bloke who chucked him off...that I find to be wrong too.

Oh don't get me wrong, I can understand why some are viewing it the way they are - I totally understand that. I simply don't agree with that view.

The fact that there's all this cock and bull story (IMO) about being sold 2 incorrect tickets, him knowing about it before going in for his exams, him going to sort it out etc - yet we see all to clearly, him arguing the bit with the conductor that he HAD the right ticket - when he knew he didn't.

Between that and him then lying about not being allowed to get his bag: that's all leading upto me thinking the one who though he was a big man, was the boyo.

Been a long while since i've seen a debate on here like this one......... pio asked for the forum to get lively: I think we've all managed to do exactly that on this thread !

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Thats very true

I hear swearing all day every day, maybe it just doesnt affect me as much as it affects others

There was kids and Mother near him.


So thats Why the Punk had to be Ejected

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Shasown

What public servant?

Scotrail isnt a government run agency.

I believe you're confusing "public" with "civil" .....

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Snowball

I'm only putting forward possibilities - which is what we all are doing.

And I'm only responding to the possibilities you're putting forward - like we're all doing

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Omah

You assumed what you saw was the whole story .....



You made a statement based on an assumption (I.e. that nothing had happened previously) .....

I never said anything about what may or may not have happened beforehand. Just another assumption on your part, my argument from the start has been that the man shouldn't have got involved and that he was needlessly violent. I never said anything about the lad apart from that he was in the wrong and that he had diabetes.

Your assuming incorrect things and painting them as my own. Stick to what I actually said if future and not what you wanted to hear.

[Vicky.]

Yes it has been a very long time since we all had a proper debate. At least this has given us something to talk about. Seems to have totally polarized opinions too, no-one is on the fence

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Snowball

He didn't give a damn that he was holding up the train, didn't give a damn about the inconvenience HE was causing.

Behave the train was standing at Linlithgow station, thats on the main Edinburgh to Glasgow(/Falkirk) lines. Its quite a busy line, the train wouldnt have been allowed to stop for long.

Something to do with Scotrail not wanting other trains to crash into them.

Besides according to the Daily Gers

A spokesman for British Transport Police said: “We are aware of the YouTube video and our inquiries are ongoing.

“Transport police did not receive a complaint from anyone on the train at the time the incident is believed to have taken place.”

Normal policy for dealing with passengers who have no ticket or cash is for them to be given an option to have a bill sent to their home.

If a passenger refuses to pay, transport police are generally informed and told to meet the train at the next station to deal with the incident so that the service is not held up


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/sc...6908-23631110/

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Besides according to the Daily Gers

Would be interesting to know why the normal policy wasnt followed this time

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Omah

I believe you're confusing "public" with "civil" .....

Not at all.

A civil servant or public servant is a person in the public sector employed for a government department or agency. The term explicitly excludes the armed services, although civilian officials will work at "Defence Ministry" headquarters. The term always includes the (sovereign) state's employees; whether regional, or sub-state, or even municipal employees are called "civil servants" varies from country to country. In the United Kingdom, for instance, only Crown employees are referred to as civil servants, county or city employees are not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civil_service

Get on the program eh?


Its ok though no need to apologise.

[MTVN]

I was a bit confused by him being referred to as publicly funded and a public servant as well, the rails were privatised years ago?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Agreed...though I swear a lot myself...not At people, but in general


Speculation. he may have had another bag. That part of the news story is a bit odd though,, but even so...he still did not deserve to be manhandled by a randomer.



He wouldnt have held up the train if the conductor had actually done his job properly instead of making a big scene and inviting others to have a go. Great 'conflict management' training that train line gives its staff, yeah?



Fair enough. To me a yob is someone who uses unnecessary violence, purposely causes trouble, uses intimidation to get what they want etc etc. But each to their own

I can swear like a trooper when the notion takes me: I don't tend to unleash it in public, on crowded trains to act tough.

I find it very difficult to believe that he had another bag. how many student attend an exam laden with bags......and who is to say that after his few drinks, that he didn't leave 'this other bag' in the pub and hadn't even taken it on the train in the first instance.

The train was as standstill. The yob made it clear he had no intention of moving - he made it clear he was happy to hold the journey up regardless of there being other paying passengers on the train.

No one invited others to have a go. The big man asked the conductor if he would like the yob off the train.

As for training.....I suspect this vid is a perfect training tool. It could also be said that the father needs to teach his son to be a bit more honest and a lot more respectful.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

I never said anything about what may or may not have happened beforehand.

Exactly, you were remiss in your interpretation.

[Vicky.]

Originally Posted by Snowball

I can swear like a trooper when the notion takes me: I don't tend to unleash it in public, on crowded trains to act tough.

I find it very difficult to believe that he had another bag. how many student attend an exam laden with bags......and who is to say that after his few drinks, that he didn't leave 'this other bag' in the pub and hadn't even taken it on the train in the first instance.

The train was as standstill. The yob made it clear he had no intention of moving - he made it clear he was happy to hold the journey up regardless of there being other paying passengers on the train.

No one invited others to have a go. The big man asked the conductor if he would like the yob off the train.

As for training.....I suspect this vid is a perfect training tool. It could also be said that the father needs to teach his son to be a bit more honest and a lot more respectful.

Of course he did...he made a point of pretty much telling the other passengers that they should be pissed off by what he said to the lad

The vid is the perfect training tool? In what sense? Conflict management...is not escalating situations and then allowing a randomer to get involved.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Not at all.




Get on the program eh?


Its ok though no need to apologise.

Public services


Public services is a term usually used to mean services provided by government to its citizens, either directly (through the public sector) or by financing private provision of services. The term is associated with a social consensus (usually expressed through democratic elections) that certain services should be available to all, regardless of income. Even where public services are neither publicly provided nor publicly financed, for social and political reasons they are usually subject to regulation going beyond that applying to most economic sectors. Public service is also a course that can be studied at a college and/or university.

Sectors

Public services tend to be those considered as so essential to modern life that for moral reasons their universal provision should be guaranteed. They may be associated with fundamental human rights (such as the right to water). An example of a service which is not generally considered an essential public service is hairdressing. The Volunteer Fire Dept. and Ambulance Corps. are institutions with the mission of servicing the community. A service is helping others with a specific need or want. Here, service ranges from a doctor curing an illness, to a repair person, to a food pantry. All of these services are essential to people's lives.

In modern, developed countries the term public services often includes:

Broadcasting
Education
Electricity
Environmental protection
Fire service
Gas
Health care
Military
Police service
Public information and archiving, such as libraries
Public transportation
Social housing
Social services
Telecommunications
Town planning
Waste management
Water services

Characteristics

A public service may sometimes have the characteristics of a public good (being non-rivalrous and non-excludable), but most are merit goods, that is, services which may (according to prevailing social norms) be under-provided by the market. In most cases public services are services, i.e. they do not involve manufacturing of goods such as nuts and bolts. They may be provided by local or national monopolies, especially in sectors which are natural monopolies.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_services

[Shasown]

Originally Posted by Snowball

I can swear like a trooper when the notion takes me: I don't tend to unleash it in public, on crowded trains to act tough.

I find it very difficult to believe that he had another bag. how many student attend an exam laden with bags......and who is to say that after his few drinks, that he didn't leave 'this other bag' in the pub and hadn't even taken it on the train in the first instance.

The train was as standstill. The yob made it clear he had no intention of moving - he made it clear he was happy to hold the journey up regardless of there being other paying passengers on the train.

No one invited others to have a go. The big man asked the conductor if he would like the yob off the train.

As for training.....I suspect this vid is a perfect training tool. It could also be said that the father needs to teach his son to be a bit more honest and a lot more respectful.

Conductor may have offered to let yob pay, may have offered to send bill to yobs house, Yob may be totally in the wrong. Yob might have tourettes, he may actually be telling the truth, unlikely as that possibility is. Lots and lots of possibilities.

Still doesnt give big man the right to manhandle him off the train.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Vicky.

Yes it has been a very long time since we all had a proper debate. At least this has given us something to talk about. Seems to have totally polarized opinions too, no-one is on the fence

Yes we need a Poll



Was the Big Man


Right



or


Wrong



Simple Poll.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Behave the train was standing at Linlithgow station, thats on the main Edinburgh to Glasgow(/Falkirk) lines. Its quite a busy line, the train wouldnt have been allowed to stop for long.

Something to do with Scotrail not wanting other trains to crash into them.

Besides according to the Daily Gers

Precisely, and all the more reason for getting the yob removed quickly - as it was holding up the journey..... remember, the train wasn't just nipping from Falkirk to Edinburgh..... it was going up to Perth. Calling and waiting on Security etc would have caused even further delay.


Re your quoted part:

transport police are generally informed and told to meet the train at the next station to deal with the incidentso that the service is not held up

Generally being the operative word here - ie: not always..... as was the case here.

Normal policy for dealing with passengers who have no ticket or cash is for them to be given an option to have a bill sent to their home.

Do you seriously believe that this yob would have given the conductor is home address to send a bill to? He wouldn't do as he was told, far less be expected to hand over his personal home address......

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes we need a Poll



Was the Big Man


Right



or


Wrong



Simple Poll.

Oh good Idea Arista!

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Conductor may have offered to let yob pay, may have offered to send bill to yobs house, Yob may be totally in the wrong. Yob might have tourettes, he may actually be telling the truth, unlikely as that possibility is. Lots and lots of possibilities.

Still doesnt give big man the right to manhandle him off the train.

aye right.

So we'll add tourettes to his list of problems.

How's the list doing ....so far he may have:-

Diabetes
Tourettes
Memory problems
Unable to seperate fact from fiction
Oh...and a grazed face (that may have happend on his walk home for all we know)

Any further advances people?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Christmas Neeve

Oh good Idea Arista!

Yeeahhhh.....we agree.

Good shout Arista.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Snowball

Yeeahhhh.....we agree.

Good shout Arista.

added (hope Jack doesn't mind!)

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Shasown

Thank you for that. Lovely interesting reading.

But thats public sector and services. To then link it with the term public servant may seem to be correct but actually isnt.

Actually it is .....