[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

And even if they did, you think women don't have sex with their bosses in other industries to get ahead?? REALLY?

Sleeping with Hef is less shameful then having an affair with your husbands brother for 8 years imo

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Sleeping with Hef is less shameful then having an affair with your husbands brother for 8 years imo

Morally, I would agree.

[Bojangles]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Sleeping with Hef is less shameful then having an affair with your husbands brother for 8 years imo

Sleeping is the operative word when talking about the twins.
Not so in the case of Natasha.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Sleeping with Hef is less shameful then having an affair with your husbands brother for 8 years imo

For sure. The twins don't seem like they are desperate for male attention at all, they seem to be very in control of their own sexuality, and don't let men get away with any BS.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

Do you reckon Hef can still even get it up?

I think things are a bit more sedate in the mansion these days, play a lot of chess...less playmate and more stalemate

I have to say I'm liking the twins...they don't take any c*ap

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by lostalex

For sure. The twins don't seem like they are desperate for male attention at all, they seem to be very in control of their own sexuality, and don't let men get away with any BS.

Originally Posted by Ammi

I think things are a bit more sedate in the mansion these days, play a lot of chess...less playmate and more stalemate

I have to say I'm liking the twins...they don't take any c*ap

I agree. I really thought I wouldn't like these two at all but they've pleasantly surprised me, they come across as intelligent and can read people well and don't let people get away with s**t, they're upfront and fiesty but not bitchy.

[Bojangles]

Originally Posted by Ammi

I think things are a bit more sedate in the mansion these days, play a lot of chess...less playmate and more stalemate

I have to say I'm liking the twins...they don't take any c*ap

I agree.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

There's a difference between sex references and having sex with dirty old man for money and a career. They are no better than street walkers. Dirty, horrid little sluts. And that goes for all of these "bunnies".

And there lies the crux of my argument.

You believe that women should be d*mned for a preconceived notion of what they are like or what they might have done - rather than what they are and what they've actually done.

In your mind they are guilty, therefore they are dirt - your words - and they should remember their place in life. And so you start the witch hunt...

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by kefln

And there lies the crux of my argument.

You believe that women should be d*mned for a preconceived notion of what they are like or what they might have done - rather than what they are and what they've actually done.

In your mind they are guilty, therefore they are dirt - your words - and they should remember their place in life. And so you start the witch hunt...

Remember their place in life? What do you mean?

I'm not saying they should be living on the streets or have no right to anything but I don't like the arrogant attitude that they are anything but people that have to stoop to what they do to earn money. And doing what they do to earn money isn't, in my eyes, respectable. In my eyes their job (not modelling in general) as Playboy bunnies shows a lack of self respect.
This is mirrored in the lack of respect people like Frankie and Kirk seem to show them.

I'm not saying they should be vilified for their life choice at random, I'm saying they have a delusional sense of their own worth. When, in practise, they have no more worth than a street walker doing what they do.

Again, stop bringing up this "girl power" notion that I think all girls who dress provocatively are sluts or have casual sex or whatever.

I'm basing this judgement of Karissa and Kristina solely on the actions of Karissa and Kristina. Sleeping with Hugh Hefner may be speculation on my part but the other 90% of the Playboy bunny role they have fulfilled for all to see. Sex tapes and all.


You keep bringing up the crux of your argument that I'm slating the female gender for wearing skimpy clothes or having sex. I'm not. I'm giving an opinion solely on Karissa and Kristina (as is the point of the thread) based on the job of a Playboy bunny and what they have actually done.

I'm not sitting here presuming that Karissa and Kristina are a pair of sluts because they wear a certain skirt or a top but because of the job they have stooped to, to earn money. If anything, they don't say a lot for feminism.

[fruit_cake]

Originally Posted by Ammi

I think things are a bit more sedate in the mansion these days, play a lot of chess...less playmate and more stalemate

I have to say I'm liking the twins...they don't take any c*ap

true, but it's easy not to take crap when you have you sister behind you to back you up all the time.

[MTVN]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Remember their place in life? What do you mean?

I'm not saying they should be living on the streets or have no right to anything but I don't like the arrogant attitude that they are anything but people that have to stoop to what they do to earn money. And doing what they do to earn money isn't, in my eyes, respectable. In my eyes their job (not modelling in general) as Playboy bunnies shows a lack of self respect.
This is mirrored in the lack of respect people like Frankie and Kirk seem to show them.

I'm not saying they should be vilified for their life choice at random, I'm saying they have a delusional sense of their own worth. When, in practise, they have no more worth than a street walker doing what they do.

Again, stop bringing up this "girl power" notion that I think all girls who dress provocatively are sluts or have casual sex or whatever.

I'm basing this judgement of Karissa and Kristina solely on the actions of Karissa and Kristina. Sleeping with Hugh Hefner may be speculation on my part but the other 90% of the Playboy bunny role they have fulfilled for all to see. Sex tapes and all.


You keep bringing up the crux of your argument that I'm slating the female gender for wearing skimpy clothes or having sex. I'm not. I'm giving an opinion solely on Karissa and Kristina (as is the point of the thread) based on the job of a Playboy bunny and what they have actually done.

I'm not sitting here presuming that Karissa and Kristina are a pair of sluts because they wear a certain skirt or a top but because of the job they have stooped to, to earn money. If anything, they don't say a lot for feminism.

So.. what's your point, that they wouldn't win Moral Big Brother?

Edit - never mind, I see what you're saying now, that they're too full of self-importance considering their profession?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by fruit_cake

true, but it's easy not to take crap when you have you sister behind you to back you up all the time.

Don't think it makes any difference tbh...Samanda didn't have any spark

[kefln]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

Remember their place in life? What do you mean?

I'm not saying they should be living on the streets or have no right to anything but I don't like the arrogant attitude that they are anything but people that have to stoop to what they do to earn money. And doing what they do to earn money isn't, in my eyes, respectable. In my eyes their job (not modelling in general) as Playboy bunnies shows a lack of self respect.
This is mirrored in the lack of respect people like Frankie and Kirk seem to show them.

I'm not saying they should be vilified for their life choice at random, I'm saying they have a delusional sense of their own worth. When, in practise, they have no more worth than a street walker doing what they do.

Again, stop bringing up this "girl power" notion that I think all girls who dress provocatively are sluts or have casual sex or whatever.

I'm basing this judgement of Karissa and Kristina solely on the actions of Karissa and Kristina. Sleeping with Hugh Hefner may be speculation on my part but the other 90% of the Playboy bunny role they have fulfilled for all to see. Sex tapes and all.


You keep bringing up the crux of your argument that I'm slating the female gender for wearing skimpy clothes or having sex. I'm not. I'm giving an opinion solely on Karissa and Kristina (as is the point of the thread) based on the job of a Playboy bunny and what they have actually done.

I'm not sitting here presuming that Karissa and Kristina are a pair of sluts because they wear a certain skirt or a top but because of the job they have stooped to, to earn money. If anything, they don't say a lot for feminism.

I mentioned “female power” once, just once. Yet you have continuously attacked the twins, calling them prostitutes, sluts, dirt, soulless. That they were on a sex rota, that they “earn their money from the wanking Frank Cocozza's of this world” therefore they should put up with whatever is said to them.

Now you are saying that maybe they didn’t sleep around, but some of the Playboy girls have, therefore they all should be tarred with the same brush! Which is a horrible generalisation, no matter which way you swing it.

Originally Posted by 08marsh

I'm giving an opinion solely on Karissa and Kristina (as is the point of the thread) based on the job of a Playboy bunny and what they have actually done.

No. You are giving an opinion on what you believe Karissa and Kristina may have done, or haven’t done, cause you aren’t really sure. But you are pretty sure that some of the people that they may have met in the past could have done. Therefore, in your own words, the twins are “Dirty, horrid little sluts”.

And this thread is about the twins being arrogant, which is all down to interpretation and everyone will have a different opinion on that. However calling them prostitutes and sluts just because you don’t like their career choice…

[KenCasanova]

Originally Posted by kefln

Nothing.

People disagree with their "career" and feel justified in saying what they want about them.

NO

Most people that dislike them, dislike them for their hypocrisy, over self-importance and being stuck up.

I really couldn't care less about them being glorified prostitutes(which i think a playboy model is).

[kefln]

Originally Posted by KenCasanova

NO

Most people that dislike them, dislike them for their hypocrisy, over self-importance and being stuck up.

HaHa! I think you just described alot of the celebs that have entered the BB house over the years.

A number of the housemates have commented on Andrews delusions of grandeur. And lets not forget the genius who once stormed out of the house because he had to wash his own underware. It takes all sorts.

As for being stuck up - them seem happy to chat to everyone. Hardly the norm for people that are stuck up.

Originally Posted by KenCasanova

I really couldn't care less about them being glorified prostitutes(which i think a playboy model is).

Then you don't understand what a prostitute is, but since you don't care, I guess that doesn't matter!

[kefln]

Originally Posted by KenCasanova

Most people that dislike them

And if most people dislike them, then they'll be booted sometime in the next two weeks and we'll never have to see them again...so what does it matter?

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by kefln

I mentioned “female power” once, just once. Yet you have continuously attacked the twins, calling them prostitutes, sluts, dirt, soulless. That they were on a sex rota, that they “earn their money from the wanking Frank Cocozza's of this world” therefore they should put up with whatever is said to them.

Now you are saying that maybe they didn’t sleep around, but some of the Playboy girls have, therefore they all should be tarred with the same brush! Which is a horrible generalisation, no matter which way you swing it.



No. You are giving an opinion on what you believe Karissa and Kristina may have done, or haven’t done, cause you aren’t really sure. But you are pretty sure that some of the people that they may have met in the past could have done. Therefore, in your own words, the twins are “Dirty, horrid little sluts”.

And this thread is about the twins being arrogant, which is all down to interpretation and everyone will have a different opinion on that. However calling them prostitutes and sluts just because you don’t like their career choice…

I'm not wasting time explaining again, everything is in my previous posts.

I said I'm judging them on what they've done.
Everything they have done 100% regardless of sleeping with Hugh Hefner makes them slutty. Gaining publicity (another FACT) with sex tapes.

This is largely out of proportion with their high sense of their own worth as though the "pervy" likes of Frankie and Kirk are beneath them and they deserve more respect. If they wanted respect without being sexualised then they wouldn't sexually objectify themselves for a living, and disrespect themselves.

This is a direct response to the thread's topic about their arrogance and attitude. Do not tell me how I'm generalising about promiscuous women, or making assumptions about rape victims. That's tangent to the discussion and the opposite of what I said.

[KenCasanova]

Interesting read on the truth inside the playboy mansion.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...#ixzz19e0QwoUf

Weird how alot of what's in the article echoes what the twins said. Allowances and sex parties etc.

[kefln]

Originally Posted by 08marsh

I'm not wasting time explaining again, everything is in my previous posts.

I said I'm judging them on what they've done.

But most of what you have said has been to accuse them of being prostitutes...not what they have done...

[kefln]

Originally Posted by KenCasanova

Interesting read on the truth inside the playboy mansion.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/ar...#ixzz19e0QwoUf

Weird how alot of what's in the article echoes what the twins said. Allowances and sex parties etc.

Interesting read, I’m sure the book will fly off the shelf and make the author millions. But we've all heard of the dodgy parties, the curfews and the allowances.

A quick search of the internet and I found another article:

Although St James rather blows her cover by mentioning in the prologue that the catalyst for her writing the book was meeting "one of the few elite actors who are members of the exclusive $20m-a-movie club". The actor, after chatting her up, was disturbed to discover that she once lived in the Playboy mansion, so Bunny Tales reads like an attempt at self-justification.

But she also genuinely believes that it was a small price to pay for entry into an MTV lifestyle. Oh, and the $20m-a-movie actor? She reveals at the end of the book that he changed his mind and that they're now dating. Well, thank goodness for that. I really think they could be very happy together.

So basically she used her position in the playboy mansion to make money off the stories and to bag a rich man...

[Marsh.]

Originally Posted by kefln

But most of what you have said has been to accuse them of being prostitutes...not what they have done...

No. I compared them to prostitutes and said their profession, these nude centrefolds and all the rest of it are of no higher respect than a prostitute. Posing nude, all the jobs that go along with being a playmate is a fact and what they HAVE DONE. You can't dispute that. These facts coupled with their attitude as though they're worth more than being objectified screams contradiction and is where my issue comes from. So, to address the thread topic they are delusional and arrogant.

And my own personal suspicion of them sleeping with Hugh Hefner like most of the playmates do makes the ones that do practical prostitutes.

And yes, before you go crazy, that is my opinion. I've said it a dozen times so we'll move on now.

[calyman]

Originally Posted by kefln

That would be called personal opinion.

The facts are that you, me and anyone reading this post have no idea what happened in the playboy mansion.

We can assume - we've all heard the stories - but we don't ACTUALLY KNOW what the twins and Hef ACTUALLY did together.

Their ACTUAL job was the promotion of the Playboy empire.

They even said that they weren't allowed down to half the parties there. That most of the time they were bored, just sitting around the house.

So yes d*mning someone as a prostitute based simply on how you view the situation...

And there are vast differences between a persons professional life and their personal life. Like it or not the so called glamour modeling life is a business and playboy is a part of that life. If a girl chooses to pose nude for a camera, that does not make her a *****. And believe it or not that doesn't mean that people can call her one.

In the same context, you defend them as if they haven't done any of those things, you justify their acknowledged sexual commerce as legitimate, which is merely your own personal opinion, no more relevant than the many others who see them as just highly paid sex workers who arrogantly expect to be treated with respect by others.

If they expect to be treated as "ladies", then why make a career built on being overpaid slappers who graduated from the Heffner Harem.

[Marsh.]

Exactly, Calyman.

The main point of my posts kefln is struggling to understand is that my judgements are made on facts outside of whether they slept with Heffer or not.

[calyman]

08Marsh, I think one other thing is relevant. Most prostitutes tend to be quite honest about what they do, who they are etc. I personally have no issue with sex workers, as the cliche goes "somebody's got to do it". What I take issue with is, the sex worker whose career is built on male interest, yet have the gall and arrogance to expect others to "respect" them for what they do. In my opinion being a career pro. in a sex industry does not necessarily promote gender independence.

I would always respect prostitutes as individuals, but I won't respect duplicitous bints who pretend they're more than they actually are.

[Marsh.]

Which was the central point of my argument. Thank you calyman you said it more concisely and respectfully than I managed. lol.

kefln, if you are still unclear on any of my posts just read calyman's above.