[bbfan1991]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-17366756

Disgusting, poor lad.

[Livia]

It's very unfortunate, but it seems to me that everyone has to be a care worker these days. I'm sure the officers didn't know that he was autistic and just merrily restrained him anyway. If he's autistic, where was the person who was supposed to be looking after him, who obviously wasn't doing their job if he jumped into a swimming pool fully clothed? He could have drowned. Who would they have sued then?

The police will obviously appeal this case and I hope it's overturned.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's very unfortunate, but it seems to me that everyone has to be a care worker these days. I'm sure the officers didn't know that he was autistic and just merrily restrained him anyway. If he's autistic, where was the person who was supposed to be looking after him, who obviously wasn't doing their job if he jumped into a swimming pool fully clothed? He could have drowned. Who would they have sued then?

The police will obviously appeal this case and I hope it's overturned.

Yeah, my first thought was that the officers probably didn't know he was autistic and thought he was a messer showing off to his friends. The story doesn't make it clear as to whether or not they were made aware of his condition by anyone at the time

[Livia]

I find it hard to believe that a lad with the problems he had could get anywhere near the swimming pool, let alone be able to jump in fully clothed. Coppers aren't all bad, most of them are trying to do a good job under difficult circumstances, and someone getting a cash windfall like this, by besmirching their probably good intentions, smacks of profiteering.

[arista]

Originally Posted by Livia

It's very unfortunate, but it seems to me that everyone has to be a care worker these days. I'm sure the officers didn't know that he was autistic and just merrily restrained him anyway. If he's autistic, where was the person who was supposed to be looking after him, who obviously wasn't doing their job if he jumped into a swimming pool fully clothed? He could have drowned. Who would they have sued then?

The police will obviously appeal this case and I hope it's overturned.

Yes
its a error.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by arista

Yes
its a error.

If it was an error, then surely the only person who bears any sort of responsibility was the person who was supposed to be looking after him? How can the Police be punished for not being psychic?

[arista]

Originally Posted by Niamh.

If it was an error, then surely the only person who bears any sort of responsibility was the person who was supposed to be looking after him? How can the Police be punished for not being psychic?

Yes
Bang On Right

[Ammi]

The judge said lawyers for ZH had established his claim for trespass to the person, assault and battery and false imprisonment under the Disability Discrimination Act and the Human Rights Act,

He said: "The case highlights the need for there to be an awareness of the disability of autism within the public services.

"It is to be hoped that this sad case will help bring that about."

This is quite interesting..I'd like to know more about it...if he were in an organised group..where the pool staff advised of this.
I accept that he was in danger of drowning and he had to be removed from the pool for his own safety...I would like to know more details as on this article alone..as no one else appeared to be in danger or at risk..and the police officers presumably were of hefty size...I wouldn't have thought the handcuffs and cage were necessary..I would have hoped that there was someone in his group to accompany and calm him...as I say..I'm not privvy to all of the details and facts.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Ammi

The judge said lawyers for ZH had established his claim for trespass to the person, assault and battery and false imprisonment under the Disability Discrimination Act and the Human Rights Act,

He said: "The case highlights the need for there to be an awareness of the disability of autism within the public services.

"It is to be hoped that this sad case will help bring that about."

This is quite interesting..I'd like to know more about it...if he were in an organised group..where the pool staff advised of this.
I accept that he was in danger of drowning and he had to be removed from the pool for his own safety...I would like to know more details as on this article alone..as no one else appeared to be in danger or at risk..and the police officers presumably were of hefty size...I wouldn't have thought the handcuffs and cage were necessary..I would have hoped that there was someone in his group to accompany and calm him...as I say..I'm not privvy to all of the details and facts.

Yeah, the article doesn't give a very clear picture of what actually happened at all

[arista]

He was on a School Trip
BBC London News just said

[Brother Leon]

They will probably charge the kid for hurting the Officer's hands.

[Kizzy]

It states in the article he was on a school trip. The teachers will have made the officers aware of his condition. The judge in this case found the police to have acted unreasonably, its not unheard of for officers to make mistakes.
They have to be held accountable if this is the case, if the police never make mistakes why do we need the IPCC?

[arista]

Originally Posted by kizzy

It states in the article he was on a school trip. The teachers will have made the officers aware of his condition. The judge in this case found the police to have acted unreasonably, its not unheard of for officers to make mistakes.
They have to be held accountable if this is the case, if the police never make mistakes why do we need the IPCC?

Is that a Fact?

[arista]

It was just debated on Ch4News

[Brother Leon]

Jail time for the Police officers involved tbh.


*Doesn't hold breath*

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by arista

Is that a Fact?

He was on a school trip, therefore they had a duty of care and were responsible for this teenager. Any medical condition he had they will have been fully aware of. In assessing the situation the attending officers will have questioned the group leader to find out what the possible cause of his agitated state was.
Do you think the judge in his wisdom delivered the wrong verdict?

[Ammi]

The police should learn techniques of how to deal with an autistic person when they are in panic and meltdown. If he was thrown to the ground or roughly held in any way, which is probable, in getting him to safety from the pool..he would have been struggling an and a danger to himself and others...I presume that is why the handcuffs and leg restraints were used. The police would not have known any other way to stop the situation. When an autistic child experiences something extremely negative..it's often flee or fight and it will be a long time before they can be calmed. It's up to the police force to train in techniques and look out for signs of autism.

The pool should have been aware that there was an autistic child in the group and the teachers themselves would have had to carry out a specific risk assessment for him...but these things can still happen...and I don't know any details but from the little I have read..I would have said..no one was to blame..but I don't know the details.

At first, I thought the restraints seemed extreme...but I think it was probably all they could do to protect him and others.

I don't know about the compensation part...Imo..it's the least important fact of this

I hope this case raises awareness and prompts thre police force into training on techniques to deal with autism

[Livia]

The Police have got to be all things to all people. They are not social workers or carers. Presumably someone called the police, it's not usual for them to patrol swimming pools on the off-chance, and as far as I know they don't restrain and handcuff people for no reason. You have to question the thinking of the people who were supposed to be caring for the boy in question.

Of couse the police make mistakes, they're people no robots. And sometimes people get a nice hefty payout on the strength of those mistakes. I don't see how a pile of cash that indirectly comes from the taxpayer can help someone get over their perceived wrongs.

[Kizzy]

There are policies and proceedures that have to be adhered to, when dealing with minors and an anyone with a mental or physical disability.
If these officers failed to follow the correct proceedure the family have the right to report it as negligence.
What is the point of having guidelines written to follow if you are not going to follow them? The officer in charge could have radioed the control room at any point to find out this information. The judge awarded compensation in this case, what other way could this have been resolved? Have the officers involved lose their job?
It is interesting that the Police have refused to apologise and instead are wasting taxpayers money further by appealing the judges decision.

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kizzy

There are policies and proceedures that have to be adhered to, when dealing with minors and an anyone with a mental or physical disability.
If these officers failed to follow the correct proceedure the family have the right to report it as negligence.
What is the point of having guidelines written to follow if you are not going to follow them? The officer in charge could have radioed the control room at any point to find out this information. The judge awarded compensation in this case, what other way could this have been resolved? Have the officers involved lose their job?
It is interesting that the Police have refused to apologise and instead are wasting taxpayers money further by appealing the judges decision.

Yes you are right..there are procedures..everything from the tone of your voice to how you move. But those procedures Kizzy..though very effective..are futile if an autistic child has gone into 'meltdown'..it will then become flee or fight..and it will take hours and hours to resume the calm.
There would have been no time or opportunity, I am guessing to..radio..and they would have dealt with as best they could..in a way that the guy could not have harmed himself further or anyone around him....they tried their best..as far as I can see..on the details that are given.
..that's all anyone can do...I can't see that a money compensation can do any good here...what is needed is more awareness...but even then..in this case...I'm guessing from the moment the boy jumped into the pool...no trained techniques could have prevented his panic...I think they did all they could

[Kizzy]

Its unfortunate that they didn't ....radio.... It would have prevented a lot of time and money being wasted, not to mention the damage to the reputation of the Met Police.
Whats the alternative then to compensation?

[Ammi]

Originally Posted by kizzy

Its unfortunate that they didn't ....radio.... It would have prevented a lot of time and money being wasted, not to mention the damage to the reputation of the Met Police.
Whats the alternative then to compensation?

It's unfortunate that he could not be prevented from jumping into the pool in the first place..but that doesn't mean anyone is at fault..it takes a second is all. It may and probably did take all the police strength to restrain him and I am guessing that a 'radio call' was not a feasible option...a child in panic is extroadinarily strong
..the alternative is training on techniques to deal with autistic children but that may not be feasible either..budget restraints. However, imo if a problem can't be helped by a payout of compensation...why make it..it doesn't serve any purpose whatsoever...money doesn't always solve things and it would be better to seek a solution, if possible than hand out some cash

[Kizzy]

The bottom line is they did not follow the correct proceedure and therefore placed themselves in a position where there was a case to be heard.
They lost the case and the victim was recompensed.

[Patrick]

Disgusting bastards.

And believe me, I really don't think I kid with that level with Autism would care too much about showing off to his friends - especially if he can barely communicate FFS.

[Niamh.]

Originally Posted by Patrick

Disgusting bastards.

And believe me, I really don't think I kid with that level with Autism would care too much about showing off to his friends - especially if he can barely communicate FFS.

If that was in reference to my post, I don't think you read it properly.