[Vanessa]

Originally Posted by kizzy

The job centre may be able to help with an ESOL course?

He's been doing english courses and is improving a lot. Hopefully he'll find a job soon.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Iceman

Older people have more experience than the younger generation. I know from personal experience that older people get jobs ahead of younger ones. Quite simple really.

Very much depends on the sector Iceman.

I think you'll find that the older generation have age against them in many cases: ageism is as much a blight for the older generation as it is for the younger generation.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by SaphLiike

I've never had a job and I don't really want one either.. I'd like money but i'm far to self conscious to work in public and would never work somewhere that I thought was 'beneath' me incase anyone I knew saw me. Schools should really be teaching about different jobs, I never knew about jobs that could be done at home, when you leave school it seems like the only options are working in shops/restaurants etc

(i'm not saying shops/restaurants are beneath me )

ie; shops being the retail sector - the one place that people are saying it's so hard to get into.

There is not one thing wrong with working in shops / restaurants - we'd all be missing much if they didn't exist !

Many people start work in such places - it's a great starting place and it's these type of jobs that then show what areas an individual is particularly good at and allows for progression if they so wish.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

ie; shops being the retail sector - the one place that people are saying it's so hard to get into.

There is not one thing wrong with working in shops / restaurants - we'd all be missing much if they didn't exist !

Many people start work in such places - it's a great starting place and it's these type of jobs that then show what areas an individual is particularly good at and allows for progression if they so wish.

Nobody said it was hard to get into

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

If your area of education and experience is retail for example the recession has changed the face of the high street.

Those who were managers in these fields are having to re-train in a different fields or take a large pay cut in lower paid positions.

BIB above suggests that it is hard to find work in the retail field unless you are prepared to accept large pay cuts. I disagree.

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Retail's incredibly competitive at the moment since it's everyone's go to option. I remember being told by an advisor around a year ago not to bother with retail unless you have experience since Entry level jobs in the sector are just heavily applied for by everyone and more often then not it tends to be a matter of luck getting a job a shop.

That might only apply to my area though since Retail is definitely the main work option where I live.

Dezzy appears to agree with my own thought that getting retail jobs is not that difficult: mostly due to saturation levels, yet we have another differing opinion below from Zee, that it is difficult to get into.


[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Zee

As a young person I think it can be very difficult to get your foot in the door - a lot of places that are willing to hire young people will only hire those who have had previous experience in that field of work - so for example, how are you to get experience working in retail if you've never worked in retail, and places will only hire you if you've had experience in retail? It's a problem that goes round in circles. I'm currently hunting for part time work now that I'm back at uni and I'm struggling so far - all my work experience has been in offices or working in a school - neither of which are particularly relevant to pulling pints or selling clothes, y'know?

Originally Posted by kizzy

Nobody said it was hard to get into

The above posts, say differently depending on the view.

According to several posters (including your good self) - you can't get into retail - (either at all or at a certain level) unless you have experience or are prepared to drop grade... both of these indicate it is not an easy sector to gain employment..... yet now you are saying no one said it was hard to get into.

Getting a job within the retail sector I do not believe to be a difficult task.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

BIB above suggests that it is hard to find work in the retail field unless you are prepared to accept large pay cuts. I disagree.




Dezzy appears to agree with my own thought that getting retail jobs is not that difficult: mostly due to saturation levels, yet we have another differing opinion below from Zee, that it is difficult to get into.

The above posts, say differently depending on the view.

According to several posters (including your good self) - you can't get into retail - (either at all or at a certain level) unless you have experience or are prepared to drop grade... both of these indicate it is not an easy sector to gain employment..... yet now you are saying no one said it was hard to get into.

Getting a job within the retail sector I do not believe to be a difficult task.[/QUOTE]

I have heard from many people that once made redundant at a retail management level it is hard to gain the same post at the same salary, wether you agree with this or not is irrelevant.
You took what I did say on the subject out of context.
Good for you.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by kizzy

The above posts, say differently depending on the view.

According to several posters (including your good self) - you can't get into retail - (either at all or at a certain level) unless you have experience or are prepared to drop grade... both of these indicate it is not an easy sector to gain employment..... yet now you are saying no one said it was hard to get into.

Getting a job within the retail sector I do not believe to be a difficult task.

I have heard from many people that once made redundant at a retail management level it is hard to gain the same post at the same salary, wether you agree with this or not is irrelevant.

You took what I did say on the subject out of context.

Good for you

.

You have 'heard' ... ... not actually experienced - ...... I'm very perplexed then how you are in any position to offer any real validation of what you claim - given that you have not been affected by it - seeing as you have only 'heard'....


I have taken nothing that you have commented on, out of context. I've addressed any of your comments, firmly and head on and without deflection.


What's good for me?

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

Dezzy appears to agree with my own thought that getting retail jobs is not that difficult: mostly due to saturation levels, yet we have another differing opinion below from Zee, that it is difficult to get into.

Yes that post of mine does seem to agree with yours, as long as you disregard 80% of it and take the two points you highlighted out of context.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Yes that post of mine does seem to agree with yours, as long as you disregard 80% of it and take the two points you highlighted out of context.

you were the one who said that it's the option that everyone in your town/city goes for Dezzy... jobs in retail. Nothing out of context: your post clearly says that's the preferred option that people go for: and it's difficult not because experience is needed; but because it's the choice everyoe goes for - thus saturation levels are reached: everyone going for the easy option where it is easy to find a job - in shops.

Not a thing wrong with that, but please: let's not have you attempting to backtrack because you happened to agree with me.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

.

You have 'heard' ... ... not actually experienced - ...... I'm very perplexed then how you are in any position to offer any real validation of what you claim - given that you have not been affected by it - seeing as you have only 'heard'....


I have taken nothing that you have commented on, out of context. I've addressed any of your comments, firmly and head on and without deflection.


What's good for me?

Oh... this is getting very boring now. I will not go over the same points for you pyra as I believe you are being deliberately obtuse.

[Tom4784]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

you were the one who said that it's the option that everyone in your town/city goes for Dezzy... jobs in retail. Nothing out of context: your post clearly says that's the preferred option that people go for: and it's difficult not because experience is needed; but because it's the choice everyoe goes for - thus saturation levels are reached: everyone going for the easy option where it is easy to find a job - in shops.

Not a thing wrong with that, but please: let's not have you attempting to backtrack because you happened to agree with me.

Silly Pyramid, you're confusing the preferred option with being the easiest also you've obviously forgotten to read my post since I did mention that unless you have experience then it's difficult to get into retail since you will be cast aside for anyone with previous experience.

It's only easy to get a job in retail as a first job in the right circumstances, like if a company is doing a big recruitment drive or if a job falls under the radar, both of which can be rare.

So yes, retail jobs can be easy to get into in the right circumstances which your argument seems to hinge on but then again that's true for any job, even yours. You found a new job easily because the circumstances were right for you, you could have very well been out of work for a lot longer if things were even a tiny bit different but you were lucky that you managed to find something that fit your circumstances quickly. Not everyone is as lucky as you are and it does seem uncouth to judge an industry or a group of people just because they might not have the same circumstances as you.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Dezzy

Silly Pyramid, you're confusing the preferred option with being the easiest also you've obviously forgotten to read my post since I did mention that unless you have experience then it's difficult to get into retail since you will be cast aside for anyone with previous experience.

It's only easy to get a job in retail as a first job in the right circumstances, like if a company is doing a big recruitment drive or if a job falls under the radar, both of which can be rare.

So yes, retail jobs can be easy to get into in the right circumstances which your argument seems to hinge on but then again that's true for any job, even yours. You found a new job easily because the circumstances were right for you, you could have very well been out of work for a lot longer if things were even a tiny bit different but you were lucky that you managed to find something that fit your circumstances quickly. Not everyone is as lucky as you are and it does seem uncouth to judge an industry or a group of people just because they might not have the same circumstances as you.

Still being the antagonist there Dezzy.... !!! LOL ...

Perhaps if you yourself paid more attention to what posters write Dezzy - you will see that I have (repeatedly) referred not only to MY situation, but to others than I also worked with: who are all at diffferent grades, some of whom are still in the first flush of working youth to the more experienced.

Seems a rather large coincedence that we all managed to get 'lucky'.... all got lucky with different companies, all doing different jobs at different grades and all got lucky at the same time, working in different geographical locations and all independently of each other . Hell of a coincedence eh.

Nothing to do with being uncouth: we are 'led to believe' that we are in a society whereby finding good employment is regarded as nigh impossible.

I see that you and others, very keenly skipped over my opening posts by which I stated that I personally was prepared to temp whilst awaiting better opportunities arising - forunately that did not have to be an avenue I had to follow. That's an alternative option to finding employment while still seeking one's preferred choice - perhaps some don't want to even consider such temp work - possibly because some may set their sights to high: or perhaps overvalue themselves. Who knows? Perhaps it's down to having the right attitude?

I've shown that it's not always the case that finding work is extremely difficult - not only in my own personal situation - but those who found themselves on the job hunt at the same time : and very quickly and successfully secured new jobs: and jobs in came with higher salaries... and it is on this premise that I make my points.

I am not saying some do no find it hard to find the ideal position - that is not in dispute - but I do wonder if there are those who simply are not prepared to accept anything that is not their absolute ideal - who are not willing to make any compromises - and then say "There's no jobs to be had".

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

I have always said that if you want (hard enough) to work and want a job: you will get one - and if you want to work: you will chose the avenues available that will source work for you. I'm very pleased to have been proven correct on this one.

Myself and no less than 5 others that I worked with - within weeks of being given notice of impending redundancies - each and every one of us secured new employment even before our final working day.

Not one of us had to downgrade either on position/ renumeration /package: in fact, every one of us found employment which included higher salaries and better Company benefits than we had - after only one interview each - and all with different companies.

so please... someone care to explain to me why there are those in society who bleat on about it being so hard to get work - or work that pays well.... because from the evidence I've seen over the past few weeks: getting a new job is far from difficult.

BUT ... OTHER PEOPLE!

Saying you and all your five friends have jobs is not empirical evidence to then go on to say that it's supposed to be easy finding jobs. Completely anecdotal.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Redway

BUT ... OTHER PEOPLE!

Saying you and all your five friends have jobs is not empirical evidence to then go on to say that it's supposed to be easy finding jobs. Completely anecdotal.

It doesn't have to be - considering I did not say that.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

It doesn't have to be - considering I did not say that.

No, but that's what you're implying. Your title basically says that through your personal experience you can come to some sort of bizzare conclusion that finding a job is easy at the moment: it isn't.

The general population provides a much bigger sample ... obviously with all the necessary factors (e.g. age, location) included. You and your five friends don't speak for the general population. Fact. End.

From personal experience, my friends are finding it difficult to get jobs - regardless of how good they would be - which would neutralise your argument completely?

[Mystic Mock]

I will do Online University eventually, I just don't know what I want to do though lol.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Redway

No, but that's what you're implying. Your title basically says that through your personal experience you can come to some sort of bizzare conclusion that finding a job is easy at the moment: it isn't.

The general population provides a much bigger sample ... obviously with all the necessary factors (e.g. age, location) included. You and your five friends don't speak for the general population. Fact. End.

From personal experience, my friends are finding it difficult to get jobs - regardless of how good they would be - which would neutralise your argument completely?

A conclusion is not bizarre when the facts speak for themselves - my own and my colleagues situation being our facts and this experience is what I base my comments on.

How many of your friends are looking for permanent work whilst signing on - vs how many of them have taken on temp work / short term work while they look for perm positions?.

Perhaps if you could provide that sort of information rather than just saying they are finding it difficult to get jobs.....it might validate your own arguement somewhat.

[Redway]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

A conclusion is not bizarre when the facts speak for themselves - my own and my colleagues situation being our facts and this experience is what I base my comments on.

How many of your friends are looking for permanent work whilst signing on - vs how many of them have taken on temp work / short term work while they look for perm positions?.

Perhaps if you could provide that sort of information rather than just saying they are finding it difficult to get jobs.....it might validate your own arguement somewhat.

That's your personal experience though. It is a bizarre and entirely illogical conclusion to make when the whole nation on 6 people. That's anecdotal evidence. I can counteract that by using anyone's personal experiences when things haven't gone as well for the said person, regardless of their qualifications, etc.

Facts speak for themselves, yeah, so have a read of the news.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Redway

BUT ... OTHER PEOPLE!

Saying you and all your five friends have jobs is not empirical evidence to then go on to say that it's supposed to be easy finding jobs. Completely anecdotal.

Originally Posted by Redway

No, but that's what you're implying. Your title basically says that through your personal experience you can come to some sort of bizzare conclusion that finding a job is easy at the moment: it isn't.

The general population provides a much bigger sample ... obviously with all the necessary factors (e.g. age, location) included. You and your five friends don't speak for the general population. Fact. End.

From personal experience, my friends are finding it difficult to get jobs - regardless of how good they would be - which would neutralise your argument completely?

Originally Posted by Redway

That's your personal experience though. It is a bizarre and entirely illogical conclusion to make when the whole nation on 6 people. That's anecdotal evidence. I can counteract that by using anyone's personal experiences when things haven't gone as well for the said person, regardless of their qualifications, etc.

Facts speak for themselves, yeah, so have a read of the news.

I agree ..... many factors can determine personal employment status - sometimes, it's just serendpity .....

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by thesheriff443

i find nearly all of your threads or posts are on the arrogant side!
you got a job and so did others in your previous company and thats great.
but you make out every one else are not trying or looking!
in some interveiws there are 60 people applying for the same job.

If you find my threads or posts so unpleasant: then you have a choice whether to participate or not - but please refrain from coming onto the thread with no other intention other than to deliberately insult me. 'Thanks.

I've placed comments based on what I've found to be the case in respect of job hunting and the old argument about it being so hard to get a job....when I & others have not found that to be the case - proving that it's not as difficult as it's made out to be. (and some will (rightly) take the view that it's not that easy either:..... that's not my experience).

Originally Posted by Redway

That's your personal experience though. It is a bizarre and entirely illogical conclusion to make when the whole nation on 6 people. That's anecdotal evidence. I can counteract that by using anyone's personal experiences when things haven't gone as well for the said person, regardless of their qualifications, etc.

Facts speak for themselves, yeah, so have a read of the news.

Correct, that's my personal experience and that's why I am discussing it - thus it is far from bizarre - unless you regard the concept of gaining employment very quickly a bizarre concept !!

I see you have avoided my question Redway: how many of your friends that you said are finding it so hard to secure perm employment are just signing on......whilst 'looking for work'..... and how many have taken up short term or temp work in the interim - while they try to secure more perm work that they would ideally want to be doing?

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Omah

I agree ..... many factors can determine personal employment status - sometimes, it's just serendpity .....

And sometimes, it's having the right attitude. Sometimes it's being in the right place at the right times. Sometimes it's applying for roles that are within your capabilities and not above or below. Sometimes it's targetting the right companies.

Lots of reasons for being able to find work.

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by The Mockinator

I will do Online University eventually, I just don't know what I want to do though lol.

Always a good idea especially when out of work when people have time on their hands to study - all the more so when it can be done online and from home. Lots of agencies provide various courses to help along the way. Plus it's a great way of keeping the mind busy, active and in a positive way.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

And sometimes, it's having the right attitude. Sometimes it's being in the right place at the right times. Sometimes it's applying for roles that are within your capabilities and not above or below. Sometimes it's targetting the right companies.

When your "luck" changes, I'll bet you won't be boasting then .....

I worked in the Insolvency Service for a while and dealt with hundreds of previously well-employed people who lost their jobs/businesses through no fault of their own and who had to seriously downgrade their lifestyle ..... I also worked for the DWP on DLA - again, life-changing injuries and illness can happen to anyone (there are over 3m claimants) - if there is anything that my jobs have taught me, it's not to be patronising or smug about employment .....

[Pyramid*]

Originally Posted by Omah

When your "luck" changes, I'll bet you won't be boasting then .....

I worked in the Insolvency Service for a while and dealt with hundreds of previously well-employed people who lost their jobs/businesses through no fault of their own and who had to seriously downgrade their lifestyle ..... I also worked for the DWP on DLA - again, life-changing injuries and illness can happen to anyone (there are over 3m claimants) - if there is anything that my jobs have taught me, it's not to be patronising or smug about employment .....

You make your own Luck Omah....

Who's being patronising or smug..... it's called a discussion based on factual experience.

[Omah]

Originally Posted by Pyramid*

You make your own Luck Omah....

Like I said, I have learned not to be smug or patronising .....