[lostalex]

He looks like an idiot with no balls for backtracking. The Lib Dems and Nick Clegg are just reinforcing what everyone already thinks of them, they don't have the balls to stand up for ANY of their beliefs. Pathetic.

[Livia]

Originally Posted by lostalex

He looks like an idiot with no balls for backtracking. The Lib Dems and Nick Clegg are just reinforcing what everyone already thinks of them, they don't have the balls to stand up for ANY of their beliefs. Pathetic.

That's so true. The LibDems have stepped further and further away from what they stand for and closer to what the Conservatives stand for, just to hang on to power, and it's shown them to be gutless and untrustworthy. They don't stand for anything anymore, even their staunchest supporters agree. In the immortal words of Malcolm X - "if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything".

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by Livia

That's so true. The LibDems have stepped further and further away from what they stand for and closer to what the Conservatives stand for, just to hang on to power, and it's shown them to be gutless and untrustworthy. They don't stand for anything anymore, even their staunchest supporters agree. In the immortal words of Malcolm X - "if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything".

brilliant quote. It's nice to see someone who's not afraid to see the similarities between the civil rights movement for blacks in line with the civil rights movement for gays today. It is exactly the same. All of the same arguments used against gay marriage are identical to the arguments used against interracial marriage.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by Livia

That's so true. The LibDems have stepped further and further away from what they stand for and closer to what the Conservatives stand for, just to hang on to power, and it's shown them to be gutless and untrustworthy. They don't stand for anything anymore, even their staunchest supporters agree. In the immortal words of Malcolm X - "if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything".

Livia if you post untruths people will call you out on them, whether you respond or not is up to you.
The lib dems have as part of the coalition agreement shelved some of their policies yes...
To form a joint government that was essential the conservatives were obliged to do the same.
If it were not for the liberal ministers and whisle blowers the tories would be getting away with much more than they are currently we both know that.

And for the record nobody knows who coined that phrase, it and variants of it are very inspiring though so I see it's relevance to the topic.

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by Livia

That's so true. The LibDems have stepped further and further away from what they stand for and closer to what the Conservatives stand for, just to hang on to power, and it's shown them to be gutless and untrustworthy. They don't stand for anything anymore, even their staunchest supporters agree. In the immortal words of Malcolm X - "if you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything".

Absolutely Livia,gutless and untrustworthy is exactly the words to use as to them now.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

Absolutely Livia,gutless and untrustworthy is exactly the words to use as to them now.

didn't you say you felt sorry for Nick Clegg earlier?...

[joeysteele]

Originally Posted by kizzy

didn't you say you felt sorry for Nick Clegg earlier?...

I said for the first time since August 2010,I actuallt felt a bit sorry for him in the context of being caught out with this comment he made, just as I also felt sorry for Gordon Brown when he made his bigot gaffe comment during the 2010 election campaign as to a voter.

That doesn't though mean I have gained a single gramme of respect for the Lib Dems under Clegg as to whatever their policies are now and aslo as to the extreme things they have supported fully in Parliament.
Coalition Govt should be aboput moderation and compromise not near total surrender of your polices and principles.

I voted Lib Dem in 2010, after being promised all sorts from near being stalked by their candidates and party canvassers as a student, I will be unlikely to vote for them again for at least decades.

As Livia said, they have thrown out near all they said they stood for and really believed in, to hold a miserable few Ministerial positions and to be able to say they had a say in power for 4 or 5 years.
Not everything they say is wrong and everyone makes errors and gaffes when making off the cuff comments or even in speeches at times.

I can have sympathy for that as to Clegg on this issue in this thread,however for his and his party's total betrayal of the trust that was put in them from those who trusted them and voted for them,I will treat them and talk about them in the only way I believe right after that and that is with total contempt towards them.

[Kizzy]

Originally Posted by joeysteele

I said for the first time since August 2010,I actuallt felt a bit sorry for him in the context of being caught out with this comment he made, just as I also felt sorry for Gordon Brown when he made his bigot gaffe comment during the 2010 election campaign as to a voter.

That doesn't though mean I have gained a single gramme of respect for the Lib Dems under Clegg as to whatever their policies are now and aslo as to the extreme things they have supported fully in Parliament.
Coalition Govt should be aboput moderation and compromise not near total surrender of your polices and principles.

I voted Lib Dem in 2010, after being promised all sorts from near being stalked by their candidates and party canvassers as a student, I will be unlikely to vote for them again for at least decades.

As Livia said, they have thrown out near all they said they stood for and really believed in, to hold a miserable few Ministerial positions and to be able to say they had a say in power for 4 or 5 years.
Not everything they say is wrong and everyone makes errors and gaffes when making off the cuff comments or even in speeches at times.

I can have sympathy for that as to Clegg on this issue in this thread,however for his and his party's total betrayal of the trust that was put in them from those who trusted them and voted for them,I will treat them and talk about them in the only way I believe right after that and that is with total contempt towards them.

Well i'm sorry you feel that way joey, personally I believe it is those lib dem ministers that prevent the tories from riding roughshod all over this country even worse than they have currently.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by lostalex

He looks like an idiot with no balls for backtracking. The Lib Dems and Nick Clegg are just reinforcing what everyone already thinks of them, they don't have the balls to stand up for ANY of their beliefs. Pathetic.

so you think its right to call anyone who disagrees with you, a bigot? You think caling millions of people bigots is the way to show you have balls and win elections? Grow up.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by the truth

so you think its right to call anyone who disagrees with you, a bigot? You think caling millions of people bigots is the way to show you have balls and win elections? Grow up.

no, if someone disagree's with me that the smashing pumpkins are the greatest band ever, i don't call them a bigot.

but i think anyone who would deny a group of people their civil rights can be accurately described as a bigot.

Eigther you believe everyone deserves equal rights, or you don't. and those that don't ARE bigots.

Eigther everyone is equal under the law or they are not. And you cannot claim to believe in equality if you believe in segregation in ANY way.

Opposing gay marriage is bigotry because it means you believe there should be one set of laws for str8 people and another set of laws for gay people. That is segregation, that is bigotry.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by lostalex

no, if someone disagree's with me that the smashing pumpkins are the greatest band ever, i don't call them a bigot.

but i think anyone who would deny a group of people their civil rights can be accurately described as a bigot.

Eigther you believe everyone deserves equal rights, or you don't. and those that don't ARE bigots.

Eigther everyone is equal under the law or they are not. And you cannot claim to believe in equality if you believe in segregation in ANY way.

Opposing gay marriage is bigotry because it means you believe there should be one set of laws for str8 people and another set of laws for gay people. That is segregation, that is bigotry.

Firstly gay couples have ALL of the exact same legal rights as married couples
the only argument here is whether all churches are legally bound to carry out gay marriages. so that argument over legal rights is over.

If some people believe it is wrong for men and men to have homosexual sex, thats their opinion, which they are entitled to, even if that opinion is offensive to you or anyone else. If they verbally or physically abuse gay people, then that is bigotry. You need to sort these issues out in your own mind before ranting at people calling them bigots simply because they have different opinions. To wrongly call someone a bigot is in fact bigotry too. So its a fine line. I have read quotes on here stating, straight men should be burned, now that is bigotry. So its important we all know where the line is being opinion and bigotry or law breaking. If we can find that line and respect it, without resorting to abuse and real bigotry , then I assure you this issue will move forward far quicker.

as it stands gay couples have all the legal rights now as hetresexual couples and I for one am delighted with that.

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by the truth

Gay couples have ALL of the exact same legal rights as married couples
the only argument here is whether all churches are legally bound to carry out gay marriages.

yea, and black people had the same water and rode on the same buses that white people had...segregation is not okay though.

Separate is NOT equal.

[the truth]

Originally Posted by lostalex

yea, and black people had the same water and rode on the same buses that white people had...segregation is not okay though.

Separate is NOT equal.

Black people were maimed , murdered, didnt have the right to vote to eat in restaurnats, to travel on buses etc etc to comapre their nightmarish plight in america, africa and other nations is a joke. gay people do not have any of this discrimination at all. its insulting and untrue to even compare the 2 situations

[lostalex]

Originally Posted by the truth

Black people were maimed , murdered, didnt have the right to vote to eat in restaurnats, to travel on buses etc etc to comapre their nightmarish plight in america, africa and other nations is a joke. gay people do not have any of this discrimination at all. its insulting and untrue to even compare the 2 situations

and gay people have suffered all of those same indignities and abuses. do you deny that? It is absolutely true to compare the 2 situations, the only differnce being that black people have enjoyed equal rights for many decades now. Gay people still suffer these indignities and abuses without any protection under the law. There is no more institutional discrimination against blacks, there is absolutely still institutional discrimination against gays. So you are right that they cannot be compared anymore, gay people are absolutely suffering more than blacks. but historically, in the context of segregation, it is absolutely a fair comparison.

Blacks have had it easy compared to gays though. There can be no doubt that gays have been far more oppressed than blacks.